Seems like a dress rehearsal for things to come. Thanks a huge for the info and pics.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Valhal, First I would like to commend you and your church for selflessly donating the use of your cabins for this. Unfortunately, people being people, I doubt that this will be repaid in kind. I strongly suspect that is why they are not being allowed to use the kitchens, as I’m sure that the lease agreement requires FEMA, or the State Police to repair any damage and wear and tear that will occur over the next 5 months.

Hi Howard, The cooking thing doesn't bother me that much, because I can see that it could lead to new big bold headlines. It's the fact they can't use the kitchen at all basically. They can make their own coffee (wow!), but they can't even have milk for cereal. We can't even bring them cold-cuts and cheese for sandwiches. That's a bit extreme. Concerning the potential for damage, I can only speak for the members of our church I have visited with. We knew full-well going in that you'll "get all kinds" when you're trying to help a large mass of people and that there's always the possibility of getting some one who has no regard for some else's property. Because, as my daughter so eloquently put it when the "bad people" comment was made last evening - there's SOME "bad people" everywhere...you always have some "bad people". Quite frankly the comment concerning vandalism or such was that we know we're doing the right thing...everything will be okay - even if we have to rebuild the darned thing.

As to the issue of leaving. To me that sounds as if they would not be allowed to move out, then move back in. Locations like that being at a premium, if you move out, someone will be their to move in right after you. I highly doubt that that means that they would not be allowed to make trips into town. In fact, I would imagine that once things settle down a bit, people would be allowed to come and go with some limits. Those limits would be dependent on the amount of liability that would be present.

Okay - just want to make clear on this. They cannot leave and come back - for 5 minutes, 10 minutes or 1/2 day. And that's confirmed too many ways now. The question is now - is this an extremely short-term situation? (this processing thingy). If so, I have no problem with that. That's what we'll have to wait out.

Also, I imagine that some sort of communication/ telephone system will be set up eventually. The bureaocracy will demand it if nothing else.

The kfor.com article above stated phone service is being established. But then again, they said the Red Cross and the SBC is setting up the shelter needs and the Salvation Army is supplying clothes...

so I wouldn't try to bank on that in Denver, just yet.

Vallhall, excellent post!

No one can come in, no one cane come out. Sounds like medical quarantine to me. Last Tuesday or Wednessday I saw a report of the prisoners being evacuated to prisons outside of NOLA. So medical quarantine sounds closed to the truth.

I've lived in OK during the winter and I'm curious how well these people are prepared for winter conditions in summer camps. What is going to happen when it starts snowing? These people are going to need coats, and other cold weather clothing. Are these cabins equipped with heater, etc?

Originally posted by darkelf
Vallhall, excellent post!

No one can come in, no one cane come out. Sounds like medical quarantine to me. Last Tuesday or Wednessday I saw a report of the prisoners being evacuated to prisons outside of NOLA. So medical quarantine sounds closed to the truth.

I've lived in OK during the winter and I'm curious how well these people are prepared for winter conditions in summer camps. What is going to happen when it starts snowing? These people are going to need coats, and other cold weather clothing. Are these cabins equipped with heater, etc?

You brought up a great point, elf! Could all of this security be for 'medical' quarantine? Do you suppose they may be watching for anything to develop, if anything were to develop, from all of this?

The irony is , those cabins are from "christians Churches", and they will probably be used to "gather" Christians in the future....that is if the NWO is really comming...

Originally posted by Valhall

CORRECTION: There are RUMORS of three dysentary outbreaks. The reason given for the lock-down is so they can figure out who is sick and who is not. That makes sense.

Yes, that would make total sense. With the amount of crap (literally) and chemicals people were wading around in it would not be suprising at all that there is a real threat of disease and a true desire to keep anyone exposed contained until it can be sorted out and taken care of. There's no sense exposing a thousand people (Joe Public) when there are great options like your pseudo-isolated camp to move people to temporarily.

It's still a good idea to keep track of how things play about before reserving judgement. Perhaps "quarantine camp" would be a better term than "detainment camp"?

[edit on 6-9-2005 by CatHerder]

Originally posted by darkelf


I've lived in OK during the winter and I'm curious how well these people are prepared for winter conditions in summer camps. What is going to happen when it starts snowing? These people are going to need coats, and other cold weather clothing. Are these cabins equipped with heater, etc?

Yep! They will have heaters. Most have central heat and air and I'm sure the kind folks at FEMA - oops I mean the Red Cross are making sure they get cabins equipped with such. And just as soon as the Salvation Army gets through distributing the amphitheater full of Oklahoma citizen-donated clothing they claim they're donating...I'll try to get these 6 bags of clothes I'm running around with turned in. God knows we need to keep these massive-money-munching charities looking good! (We've got a whole bag of winter clothes in ours and as the season changes I'm sure people - oops, I mean the Salvation Army - will start getting them warmer clothes. :up

I may have to rent a helicopter and get my bubba to fly me over and do drops. (j/k - kinda)

They must be planning for an outbreak of sickness. I just got this in my CNN alerts inbox:
-- New Orleans flood waters contaminated with e. coli, official in office of Mayor Ray Nagin tells CNN.

I'm not an MD so I don't know the ramifications of e.coli.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
I highly doubt that that means that they would not be allowed to make trips into town.

If they are not allowed to go to church, I seriously doubt they will be allowed to go to town. After all they are being quarteened for "health reasons". I don't understand why they are saying to donate cash cards if these people are not allowed to leave the area they are assigned to. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm sure smokers will not be allowed to smoke either. Of course they will not be allowed any type of strong drinks. There may be also some drug users in the mix. They are probablly also preparing for some people to have some serious withdraw issues. But that still isn't any reason to perscute anyone with the conditions that have been mentioned.

Only two meals a day I'm sure they will be rationed to the minimum that a person can survive on hopefully. You know those extremely small portions of food that labels say is for one serving.

It's a very good post, but there is one key point that should be remembered:

* These people are lucky even to be alive

Now it may seem harsh, but everything has to be split fairly and equally, no-one must seem to be getting more than anyone else or things will turn ugly. This has already been shown in the events of the past week and anyone that can't see this, I'm sorry to say, is naive beyond belief.

It isn't permanent and it isn't ideal but all the points that I read in the original post are valid, if you don't like the things like not being able to cook in the cabins in case a fire starts, you should have been more careful about nurturing a society that encourages lawsuits and suing.

Surely even just by looking at recent events people can see the outcome of the slightest bit of favouritism or what happens if someone seems to have one more can of beans then someone else. The human race can be very ugly at times, all of us. Maybe you should watch Spielberg's War of the Worlds, I'm sorry to say it but the portrayal of how people behave was at least accurate or maybe even subdued.

And they are not prisoners, in your own words they said :

The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. If they leave the camp they may never return. They will be issued FEMA identification cards and "a sum of money" and they will remain within the camp for the next 5 months.

I changed the highlighting but the point is they can leave, they just can't return. Understandably, as they may bring in 'luxery' goods which can start a riot.

It a situation like this it's no holiday camp, limited resources have to be stretched and everyone has to be treated equally. It may seem mad to turn away a box of mars bars, but who do you give them to? Who gets them and who doesn't.. How do you stop some people being jealous? Who gets them instead? They can't be realistically divided up in any way...

There are going tobe some nasty people in the mix, you know the same ones shooting, raping, looting... Just maybe the more subtle ones..

It's harsh, but it's life..

EDIT:

Sorry, adding after reading what the guy after me said:

I do admire your dedication and your determination to help, if there were more people like you then maybe the world would be a better place. It's good to know that there are people that can actually be bothered to get of their asses and go out there and do something, instead of just whining about it all the time like a lot of people..

keep it up..



[edit on 6-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

*first post*
I've lurked for longer than I'd like to admit, don't know why I never joined, but this disaster has got me going. Thank you Valhall for all of your interesting posts that I've followed for ages, and thank you and your family for trying to help in this time of chaos. The situation you describe is frightening, and I hope that your story reaches people nationwide- people have no idea what kind of terrible things are happening in America.

Just came over the radio and I do not have a link. But they interviewed the head of San Jose's emergency prep department and she indicated that the first 100 they were expecting would be put up in hotels. Did not indicate where the funding was comming from.

There are major sports arenas that could be used for this purpose like many other cities. SO either they do not expect many or they are taking a differnet approach. No camp like setting for them.

They will have to let a minister in on Sudays. Especially if they show up with a member of the press (Ahem ATSNN reporter would be best) Hint Hint

Valhal, I would also like to applaud you and your families efforts.

It sounds to me that this could be used as an isolation camp, either for medical (which would explain all the medical equipment) or a camp for troublemakers when they are found. This does not sound like a good location for evacuees that want to relocate, because they will not be able to get around.

But I would still expect a higher standard of living for anyone. I would also expect that these people would not be so condescending toward people that are trying to help. Did any of them even thank you?

I hope stories like these don't keep people from helping out.

Only two rations of food really sounds like a nightmare to me, especially when dietiticians say that everyone should have at least three good meals a day. Living in such close quarters with strangers for such a long time will cause problems

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to bring this up. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes only have two meals a day but I'm an adult and sometimes my schedule doesn't allow for three squares.

But the thought of feeding growing children only two meals a day with the possiblity of a poptart snack in between seems fairly disturbing to me, or perhaps I'm seeing things that aren't there, but I believe even prisoners (murderers and rapists and the like) get three squares a day in prison. Someone also mentioned guantanomo, the thought that prisoners are being fed better than american children I find a bit disturbing.

This of course takes nothing away from the pop tart, possibly one of the best snack type inventions of all time, especially them frosted strawberry ones.

I also agree with most here that this truly is a superb thread Valhall, excellent work.

I would like to say that I also understand the hosts fear of riots but I also fear for the detainees of this camp, out in the middle of nowhere these "hosts" are going to be giving a lot of authority in the little bubble universe they've created and I think there are going to be abuses that will boggle the mind.

IMO as always.

The whole thing sounds like an old time batch consignment to me but perhaps I'm just being paranoid.

Again, Valhall nice work...though your daughter should probably get more credit since she took the photos, she gets my way above vote.

Spiderj

[edit on 9/6/2005 by Spiderj]

I don't see how this camp could be a bad thing.

Originally posted by Spiderj

Only two rations of food really sounds like a nightmare to me, especially when dietiticians say that everyone should have at least three good meals a day. Living in such close quarters with strangers for such a long time will cause problems

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to bring this up. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes only have two meals a day but I'm an adult and sometimes my schedule doesn't allow for three squares.

But the thought of feeding growing children only two meals a day with the possiblity of a poptart snack in between seems fairly disturbing to me, or perhaps I'm seeing things that aren't there, but I believe even prisoners (murderers and rapists and the like) get three squares a day in prison. Someone also mentioned guantanomo, the thought that prisoners are being fed better than american children I find a bit disturbing.
[edit on 9/6/2005 by Spiderj]

You do have a point, but prisons are budgeted for and disasters are not - to the same extent (I know that's 'wrong' but it's the way it is.)

The crucial thing is that these people are alive and these are temporary measures until things are sorted out.

Having to keep kids happy on two meals a day is much less of a knightmare than feeding them no meals a day because they're dead.

And unfortunatly there are rapists and murderers amongst them, so any motivation for them to act has to be cut back (like anything that can be seen as favouritism or anyone getting something better) and everyone has to be treated the same for the benefit of them all.
Unfortunatly, it once again boils down to a few people making it crappy for the whole.

Then, as other people have said, there is disease; In the conditions that they have been in there are many diseases that could have infected people. They have to keep them quarantined until there is little or no risk of any diseases being passed on.

And, as again other people have said, until we see how this pans out over, lets be fair, a year - and bearing in mind any difficulties that may occur - we won't be able to make a fair assumption.

If this was happening to ordinary people it would be one thing, but it's not. It's happening to a huge number of people that have been subject to a huge national disaster, conditions are extraordinary and people have to be prepared to realistically give up some creature comforts for survival. They are lucky to even be alive.
I've lived on the streets with no food, fresh water or shelter in the Winter, I would have given my right arm to get the 'luxery' these people are having right now at the time. Unless you have lived in poverty, even for only a relatively short time like I have - you have NO idea what it's like and how luxorious these 'harsh' conditions are in these circumstances. These people will be over the moon to get to live like this after the hell of teh last week.
No matter how bad it may seem it's better then the alternative.

And going back to the prison's, if certain people weren't so up in arms about their precious 'human rights' then those filth behind bars would not have all the comforts they have now anyway. - that's down to doo-gooders wanting everyone to have equal 'human rights' anyway.
It damn well isn't because the government wants it. If some of us had our own way their lives would be a living hell, but no one's allowed because of their 'human rights' that the doo-gooders prat on about when they have nothing better to do.
Yes it is wrong their conditions are better than these refugees, but the public only have themselves to blame.

If it all upset's anyone that much - why don't you swap with them- at least you'll still have a roof over your head and food.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

[edit on 6-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

You make some very good points and of course I understood going into this that two meals a day is better than none and that prisons are budgeted for three, but I would think with all the things FEMA is doing they could actually budget for three meals a day.

Although I do hope you were joking when you said this:

If anyone feels that bad about this - then why don't you trade places with some of them?

It's hard understanding the British sense of humour some times, my mothers British and dry as a toast.

But unlike your situation, these people weren't forced out of there homes to be replaced by someone else. Also the cabin camp area thing didn't disperse any permanent residents of the cabins (correct me if I'm wrong) they have been "donated" by the churches involved.

While similar I believe the small differences in the situations are significant.

Spiderj

Originally posted by Spiderj
You make some very good points and of course I understood going into this that two meals a day is better than none and that prisons are budgeted for three, but I would think with all the things FEMA is doing they could actually budget for three meals a day.

Although I do hope you were joking when you said this:

If anyone feels that bad about this - then why don't you trade places with some of them?

It's hard understanding the British sense of humour some times, my mothers British and dry as a toast.

But unlike your situation, these people weren't forced out of there homes to be replaced by someone else. Also the cabin camp area thing didn't disperse any permanent residents of the cabins (correct me if I'm wrong) they have been "donated" by the churches involved.

While similar I believe the small differences in the situations are significant.

Spiderj

They are differenet - I've since deleted the section on my events (in brief to our viewers, he is is commenting on is the following:

-------------
My, my missus and our friend were staying in a bedsit/hotel and we were given 12 hours notice to get out becasue the government had commissioned the place to take in foreign refugees (from eastern europe I think). We were on the streets that night with our stuff while some refugees enjoyed our home and food at our tax payer's expense.)
-------------

As you said, this is a different situation and irrelevent so I did remove it, but as you had already had read it before I did so, I think it was fairer to show it, so people knew what you were commenting on.

I was joking in my trading places comment, or being sarcastic more so. Sorry I should stop it but it's what makes me... me! LOL

I have a poor way of communicating my feelings sometimes and when I can't think straight, which is most of the time, I tend to resort to sarcasm.

What I really mean is that it's easy to complain but sometimes we have to weigh the situation up and try and see that it's actually quite good in the circumstances and try to appreciate the problems that have to be solved and that things are not always as easy as they seem or as they should be.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

Agent,

I understand what you're saying (you lost me for a bit, but now I understand). Really, I'm not talking about "inconveniences" and expecting life's niceties to be as they were before this. I'm talking about a government assisting a group of people through a tough time without the group of people having to give up inherent rights to get that help.

That's all in the world that is on my mind right now. Do I want them to have three meals a day? Yes. But if the government can't give them three, and can only give them two, that's okay as long as the government doesn't prevent me, a fellow citizen, from providing the third meal. That about sums up my concerns right now.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
Right. I want to make this clear (according to what the host said). They can leave. They can't come back. If they have family/friends that will put them up, the host said they could leave to go stay with some one...but they can't come back.

Sounds like a convenient way for the feds to cull the group to make it the state's financial burden on a long term basis.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by loam]