Thanks for posting this Valhall, the update is even more disconcerting- sounds like they wont be able to leave period regardless whether they want to with this 'health problem' issue. Concentration camps started off like this.

Originally posted by Valhall
[All of this makes sense to me and Springer. But I do question why taking sick people into a wilderness setting, in a confined area with 5000 people, is deemed a more appropriate action than taking them to hospitals. The camp is at least a 30 minute drive to the closest adequate hospital. The question becomes - how long will it take to get the health issues under control? Maybe FredT or some one can address that question.

CORRECTION: There are RUMORS of three dysentary outbreaks. The reason given for the lock-down is so they can figure out who is sick and who is not. That makes sense.

Okay had to do a bit of digging but the quaranteen for dysentary seems a bit iffy.

I pulled our Infectious disease doc out of rounds for a few questions:

According to him, Dysentary is a catch all for diarreal like illnesses. The culprit is usualy either amebiasis, giardia, or shigella. The first type has an incubation period of a few days to several months or years, Giardia has a incubation period of 1-4 weeks, and shigella is 1-7 days.

The first two are treated with Flagyl, the shigella is treated with an atibiotic specific to gram neagtive bacilli (ampicillin, ceftriaxone. or cipro depending on type isolated) Depending on the severity of the infection oral doses can be given.

Each one has variations that can be better or worse than others depending on the sub type of the infective agent.

However, the ID doc was perplexed about keeping them isolated for this reason. He asked specificaly if the facility they are in has hot running water, sanitary systems in place, and soap. Handwashing is the key to stopping the spread. If so there really is no need to isolate them.

He and I also question the location of the facility. From a pediatric standpoint little ones can dehydrate pretty rapidly. Did you see anything that indicated they were setting up an infirmary Val? YOu need a nurse to dispence medication and that is beyond the scope of practice for what looked like EMT's and Paramedics in your pictures. SO if someone does get sick they will have to get them out of there down those windy roads to the local hospital. ALot of these people are already symptomatic and why would you lump them in with clean or unknown people unless they were families?

Now if they are worried about Cholera thats a whole different ball game. Maybe they want to avaid a general panic and have stuck the dysentary lable on them?

[edit on 9/6/05 by FredT]

But fred again, cholera is a non issue too, as long as they have sanitation its a non issue. The update from valhall is really disturbing, i mean jesus is this really the USA??

All you need to contain Dysentery is good sanitary conditions and hygiene. Thats why it's largely wiped out.

Originally posted by picard_is_actually_a_grey
But fred again, cholera is a non issue too, as long as they have sanitation its a non issue. The update from valhall is really disturbing, i mean jesus is this really the USA??

Cholera is much worse, and has a more rapid onset however with an incubation period of a few hours to 5 days 1-3 is the average and its effects can be far worse. Cholera is more of a contaminated water issue than a sanitaition one.

Edit: Cipro is the drug of choice among others

Edit II: if contact is suspected, profalaxis can be given with tetracycline (THere are more, but I usualy only put up the ones people will regognize) I can give the rest if people are interested.

[edit on 9/6/05 by FredT]

[edit on 9/6/05 by FredT]

Exactly, its caused by contaminated water containing the feces of suffers, hence if they have sanitation theres absolutely no risk of catching it. Also this is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't allow people in to these camps or the 'refugees' out.

exellent as usuall Val.

no matter what your take on this 'camp' situation..there does seem to be an ominous overtone...
what a secluded place....i wonder who/what type of people will be sent there? just random groups...or groups/individuals that 'they' think should be more 'isolated'...hmmmmmm

and by putting them into 'the system', i assume that the 'refugees' will be bused to other cities in order to find/help find/ employment/housing? i assume there are not enough jobs in the local towns to employ and house all the 'refugees' on a permanent basis.

a live practice for something bigger???

Thanks guys for setting me straight on the health issues. We're going to stay on top of this.

I have another questions, but related. When the mayor of Houston offered up the Astrodome he made the statement (and I paraphrase) that they may be moving to similar facility as the Superdome, but would now be free to come and go as they please.

Some one has told me that they have heard the refugees (by the way, did you guys see that mainstream media gave in to Jackson's ludicrous whines and are now using "evacuees"?) can not come and go from the Astrodome. Is this true?

what makes you so sure the " lil old lady at the gas station " is correctly informed ????????much of your supposition depends on her being correct .
i dont mean to insinuate she is lying or senile ,
just not in possesion of correct uptodate data - comeone now , she is hardly being briefed by " top men "

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
what makes you so sure the " lil old lady at the gas station " is correctly informed ????????much of your supposition depends on her being correct .
i dont mean to insinuate she is lying or senile ,
just not in possesion of correct uptodate data - comeone now , she is hardly being briefed by " top men "

NO! Stop the madness! I don't think anything about the little old lady at the gas station other than she heard that some where, and I do believe she heard wrong. Please see the news article above that states "the Red Cross is establishing shelter needs" along with the southern Baptish convention. Hello! The SBC has no control over the camp anymore and FEMA/OHP is in charge.

I would believe that. They even had a lock down in the superdome. No one could leave. That would be very bad if someone inside was able to contact friends or family, and was able to move out.

Your story is very creepy and sending chills up and down my spine. It doesn't make sense to me that they have a lock down at the church's camp site. If they are worried about diseases, why are they not checked out by a doctor or hospital first before placing them in the cabins.

Only two rations of food really sounds like a nightmare to me, especially when dietiticians say that everyone should have at least three good meals a day. Living in such close quarters with strangers for such a long time will cause problems.

I'm sorry it sounds and looked too much like a temperorary concentration camp. One of the things they did with real concentration camps is make things look good on the outside, and make it look as if it is not as bad as it really was. You were able to go in and see the beds, the toys, and some of the preperations. I'll bet you it will be much different when the people get in there.

I don't like the idea of the kids being put through school inside of this camp. This is a serious isolation issue with a health excuse. I'm sure if things really do get bad, that they will not want the kids to say anything in the regular school systems. I wouldn't be suprised if you and even Springer had a very tough time speaking with any of the people even after 4 1/2 months is over.

They could be lying about letting the people leave the camp. They could site the health issue the entire time they are there. People would just say it is their incompentance again, or is it? Will they possibly let people go back to their families in the early stages.

Why only five months? Where are they going to take them after five months? Supposedly it is going to take 9 months just for the clean up, and more like years before anyone can really move back in and have any type of life.

Or do they feel that would be enough time for the American people to forget about the NO victims. We helped them, gave them a place to stay, gave them some food, and now it is time to move on to something else. Those who have friends and family could have moved back out in society in the early stages. What they would have left is forgotten, dependant people. What will they do with these people?

If they have the large facilities that conspirists believe they do, they could easily move these forgotten people to one of those facilities and do who knows what to them.

Yes, this is frightening. It will help for us not to forget about these people in the months to come. FEMA could also use excuse after excuse after excuse to keep these people detained for no reason waiting for us to forget about them entirely. They could even tell outside family members that those people are dead. The government has already been caught in many lies and scandles over the years. I fear this may be their biggest attempt yet.

VALHALL :

situations change , just because the red cross / sbc STARTED an relief opeation does not mean theat they have sole dibs

i strongly susspect that FEMA etc is now better suited to provifde long term aid

as for the 5 month " detainment " thing . that sounds like worse BS


have none of these " detainees " pree booked holidays , convention attendences etc ?????????????

Originally posted by Valhall

I have another questions, but related. When the mayor of Houston offered up the Astrodome he made the statement (and I paraphrase) that they may be moving to similar facility as the Superdome, but would now be free to come and go as they please.

Some one has told me that they have heard the refugees (by the way, did you guys see that mainstream media gave in to Jackson's ludicrous whines and are now using "evacuees"?) can not come and go from the Astrodome. Is this true?

Monday evening, there was an interview with several of the women that were staying in the astrodome. One was very up beat about Houston, and said she would be staying and getting a job in her line of work, CNA ( certified nursing assistant), and bringing the rest of her family to join her. She was shown on a city bus, going 'site seeing'. Another woman had already gone to work at the local Walmart ( Walmart has apparently said any of their NO employees will be put to work in a Walmart where ever they are relocated to. )

I had the impression these ladies were still staying at the dome, just leaving during the day. It was mentioned that those sent to the dome were given pink armbands, and that was how they got back in after leaving during the day.....showing the armbands.

It was also mentioned that the people that originally came to the astodome would be relocated out of there, and then others were going to be brought in, it was a temp staging area. ( Sorry no links, but I think this was on CNN)

My daughter was telling me this weekend, that her college (W Ga) has a dorm that was being renovated, (so therefore no students were lined up to board there this semester) and that the college had opened that dorm to evacuees from the gulf area. Some had already arrived when she came home on Friday. I don't know whether these evacuees will be just college kids, or a cross section of the population. ( I have been getting a bag of clothing together for her to take back next week, but I too may find that they are also no longer accepting clothes.)

BTW, another great post Val!....and me all out of WAB's....there's been so many already this mo.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by frayed1]
to change superdome to astrodome, my bad.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by frayed1]

Amazing Val.

I just finished reading this thread.

I'm feeling a little sick.

The prisoner explanation is the only thing that would make sense at this point.

FEMA has been absent in the relief effort because they have been busy activating their "secret camp" plan. Now we know what they spent $500,000/day on.

...three 18 wheeler refrigerated trucks sitting lined up to the right of the intersection. They were SYSCO trucks.

Command and control?

I want to know more about these trucks.

They are not accepting food except "snacks for the boys"?

They are not accepting clothes for 5,000? Maybe they've got nice orange jumpsuits for everyone.

Since nobody can come and go without "credentials" the only traffic we will see is hot meals being delivered in trucks?

I want to know more about those trucks.

Can someone monitor the traffic in and out of that place?

How many more of these internment camps for the poor are being set up around the country? I urge everyone who has heard of shelter being provided locally go "check out the digs"! NOW! Before it's too late!

If I had just lost everything and was bussed into isolation surrounded by security I'd definitely start freaking out... which... you know... could lead to a riot and a bullet to the head.
.

Originally posted by Gools

...three 18 wheeler refrigerated trucks sitting lined up to the right of the intersection. They were SYSCO trucks.

Command and control?

I want to know more about these trucks.

Generally SYSCO would be food delivery trucks, like those that supply restaurants and cafeterias.......if my memory serves. While Sysco ( not all caps) is a software company?? Do the google thing, it shows both.

Here is a simple basic plan for FEMA - split the $500 (add zeros) they are getting per day and disperse evenly between the NOLA survivors - it will be cheaper in the end AND enable them to get on with their lives somewhere new.

I know - it is stupid and naive but no more so than what they are doing now.

The psychological and emotional damage this is going to have on victims will be too big a price to pay and will splinter any remaining national pride and identity.


Can't the Feds see that??




[edit on 6-9-2005 by nikelbee]

Valhal, First I would like to commend you and your church for selflessly donating the use of your cabins for this. Unfortunately, people being people, I doubt that this will be repaid in kind. I strongly suspect that is why they are not being allowed to use the kitchens, as I’m sure that the lease agreement requires FEMA, or the State Police to repair any damage and wear and tear that will occur over the next 5 months.

As to the issue of leaving. To me that sounds as if they would not be allowed to move out, then move back in. Locations like that being at a premium, if you move out, someone will be their to move in right after you. I highly doubt that that means that they would not be allowed to make trips into town. In fact, I would imagine that once things settle down a bit, people would be allowed to come and go with some limits. Those limits would be dependent on the amount of liability that would be present.


Some of these people may be under a great deal of emotional stress. As it is, he government would be liable to take reasonable precautions to protect those people and others from harm.

Also, I imagine that some sort of communication/ telephone system will be set up eventually. The bureaocracy will demand it if nothing else.

Originally posted by frayed1

It was also mentioned that the people that originally came to the superdome would be relocated out of there, and then others were going to be brought in, it was a temp staging area. ( Sorry no links, but I think this was on CNN)

frayed,

Thanks for the good news from Houston. That is what I had heard up until today. This is what I am hoping about the Oklahoma situation. I'm hoping that this "lock-down" is very temporary and is, in fact, just to get through the "processing" stage and that the people will then be free to come and go just like those at the Astrodome. They won't have as much freedom as the Houston people even if they are given the ability to leave and come back, simply because of where they are and lack of transportation modes. I'm hoping FEMA will provide transportation for people who want to go apply for jobs, etc. I also hope to find out that this camp is just a temporary staging area as you have described the Astrodome. I would like to hear that these people (after this "processing" thingy is over) are beginning to be moved to more metropolitcan areas where they can have closer to single family existence and such.

Like I said earlier. All we have to do is give it a week - 2 tops - and the "processing" should be to the point the people can start leaving and returning.

Originally posted by Gools


If I had just lost everything and was bussed into isolation surrounded by security I'd definitely start freaking out... which... you know... could lead to a riot and a bullet to the head.
.

Here are the two things that bothered me the most yesterday. The attitude that the people who were coming didn't have the morals to handle finding out the cabin down the street was getting a bit better grub than them without breaking out into camp-burning riots...

and the fact that the military has taken the first cabin in after you come through the main gate. I'm not real sure why the military has to be there at all to be quite honest, but why did they plant them as the first thing for these people to see when they drive through the front gate? That thought makes me sad.