Originally posted by CatHerder
Ok, so let me get things straight.

Number 1: the camps were empty and there was not a single disaster victim there - and you took no photos of any

Correct.

Number 2: everyone going to this camp will have next to no posessions or no posessions at all

That's what we've been told.

Number 3: the police allowed you in,

Correct.

But the police did not tell me the following. The "hosts" did.

and told you that you couldn't leave different types of food or clothing otherwise somebody sometime might consider that to be unfair (that they didn't get the same "treat" their neighbour had)

Correct. Only they stated this might cause a riot.

and you couldn't leave food that needed to be cooked so they wouldn't have to worry about accidental fires burning anything down and causing even more grief for the disaster victims and FEMA's reputation

No - they did not tell me this. Though I stated "because of fire hazard" in my original article, they stated FEMA would not allow anyone to use the kitchen facilities in the cabins "due to liability issues". I believe that's different.

Number 4: there are some ambulances, and EMTs at the "main cabin"- and you took some photos of them

There is no main cabin. They were located very close to the main gate and to the cabin in which the soldiers were at.

Number 5: there is a fire truck or two - and you took some photos of them

Very good.

Number 6: staff onsite had cellphone radios and a local satellite tower for communications - and you took some photos of it

I think I specifically said she did NOT get a pick of the comm tower, didn't I?

Number 7: there are state police at the entrance - and you took photos of their vehicles

As well as soldiers. They were located just inside the main gate.

Well gosh, you sure got me there. This totally sounds like mistreated hostages in an internment camp. Where are your photos of the barbed wire and minefields?

You're easily gotten, apparently. Why would they need barbed wire and minefields?

You were suprised and shocked that they didn't want to accept your clothes and food donations even though they've been saying on the TV and radio and websites for a few days that anyone wanting to donate should "donate money" or volunteer time with the Red Cross or their local church organization(s)?

This WAS with my "local church organization". The cabin we were stocking was our church's cabin.

Could it possibly be that you are jumping to conclusions and over-sensationalizing things similar to what you did with the volcanic activity in Washington state a while back? As I recall you were "extremely alarmed" yet (as all the scientists said it would) it vented some gas and let off a minor eruption.

What have I over sensationalized? I told exactly what we saw and exactly what was told us by the workers at the camp. Do you think I oversensationalized because I called it a detainment camp? Please provide the appropriate name for a camp which is guarded by state police and the military, and in which you cannot have visitors, nor can you leave unless you leave on foot - at least 8 miles from no where in a place you're unfamiliar with - and to which you cannot return if you do leave.

and perhaps donate money to a disaster charity.

I've already done that.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Valhall]

Val, a couple of quick questions:

Any evidence of a mobile canteen or anything?

From the pictures and your description its in BF nowhere so bringing in hot food seems like a waste of resources. God I hope they are not going to stuff them with MRE's

We have 14 days worth as part of opur disaster kit, but my wife and I sampled them and its not exactly haute cusine.

Any evidence that FEMA is buying up supplies from local stores or is it all being shipped in?

Originally posted by mOjOm
Does it seem to strange to anyone else that within a matter of days FEMA has leased this whole place, set up complete communications, security, staff, organized id and housing systems, setup a system of rules which everyone has already been trained to understand, prepared organized buckets of toys for the kiddies, racks of clothes, etc. etc. etc...???

All the supplies in all the cabins have been donated by the citizens of Oklahoma. The buckets full of toys were made up by the church members of the McAlester church. In our cabin there were similar buckets with special items in them made up for the men who would be staying there. That's why we were there. To supply the cabin for the occupants. We had hoped to be there after some of the occupants had arrived so that we could learn individual special needs from some of them, but they weren't there yet. Since they were to arrive last night some time, and we were told starting today no one without credentials would be allowed in, I'm glad we got everything done this weekend.

For a government agency that didn't even show up until almost a week after the crisis hit, it sure seems a bit odd that something like this would come together so well so soon.

Actually I believe the preparation has been done by the Oklahoma Department of Safety (the Oklahoma Highway Patrol). And I believe the place is leased by the OHP to be used by FEMA because that's pretty much how the host said it. He said "you no longer own this cabin, FEMA does. For the next 5 months." And my mom asked for clarification "You mean they leased it." And he said, "The Oklahoma highway patrol did - lock, stock and barrel." That's almost verbatim how he said it. So it appears the state of Oklahoma procured the facility for the purpose of a FEMA refugee camp.

Originally posted by FredT


Any evidence of a mobile canteen or anything?

Any evidence that FEMA is buying up supplies from local stores or is it all being shipped in?

As we turned the corner by the row of firetrucks there were at least three 18 wheeler refrigerated trucks sitting lined up to the right of the intersection. They were SYSCO trucks. I did not see any signs of a cooking facility set up. But maybe they have commandeered a larger cabin for this purpose - or maybe even several larger cabins. The camp does not have a central mess hall facility, so they are either doing it in multiple cabins, or they have something set up we didn't see.

To clarify, the host told us that FEMA would "deliver"each meal. I don't know if that means to each cabin, or to a central location. I'm thinking each cabin, because there is no large dining facility to use.

One more thing. When the issue came up that breakfast cereals couldn't be left because there would be no milk, we were told that initially FEMA stated that the only snack products that could be in each cabin would be bread and peanut butter, but apparently there was such an inundation of donated products by the various churches they backed off that and allowed any ready-to-eat snacks (chips, cookies, obviously pop-tarts!, etc.).

Very intesting, these could be very rare photos once these places go into action.

I've often said that there doesn't need to be 'barbedwired camps' everywhere, there doesn't need to be 'train cars' everywhere for a 'camp' to be created because there is such a thing as 'commandeering'.

Why would they spend millions (probable billions the way money flows in this admin) to maintain a block of cement or a razorwired area that needs maintainance and staff for many years until it's use, which may not ever happen, when they can simply take what they need, when they need it?

Maybe the 'razor wire fences' will go up after the camp is filled and communications are cut? It's pretty easy to assemble a fence and gaurd boundry. They wouldn't need 'mines', they'd have ground sensors and helicopters with imaging that will spot any 'run aways' no matter how well they hide or how dark the night is, ever seen 'Cops'?. They collect them and bring them back or take them to 'another camp'.

This is exactly how you begin a camp system. Like i said before the Hurricane, it will be used as a Martial Law exercise, promoted as a good thing and for safety but will be equally establishing precedents which sacrifice more 'liberties & freedoms' and put the population even more under the governments thumb. This is 9/11 phaze two: Tell them it's for their good because the alternative could be disaster.

They allowed the situation to develop by delaying response so they could watch the public demand the military's involvement. They promoted 'looting' to ingrain the idea that in these situations, law enforcement is your best ally. They even tried to suggest no one could of seen it coming!

This event will prove invaluable to the maestro's.
I predict next we'll hear of bio-databasing proceedures taking place in refugee camps, just like what happened in Fallujah as those people returned to what was left of their homes.

There's more to come of this live drill.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Maybe the 'razor wire fences' will go up after the camp is filled and communications are cut? It's pretty easy to assemble a fence and gaurd boundry.

I would not go this far.

1) as the inital post shows its pretty isolated so where would you go at any rate?

2) Lets say they turned into Stalag 13. Any civilian flying over or near could see the wire, fences, towers, the obligatory guards with dogs and snap a picture.

Why are they being imprisoned in the first place?

i'm just curious if this could possibly be a prison camp...........for real prisoners from all the jails that are no longer functional? i remember seeing video of prisoners sitting on an overpass while the water was rising.......

just wondering........if they could be moving in all the prisoners that need housing..........and the OHP and FEMA just didn't want to discuss it with you.

this is an excellent article VALHALL..............very good. thanks for the info. and i'm going to be really curious to see how this thing plays out!!!

thanks!!
angie

SORRY DOUBLE POST!!

[edit on 6-9-2005 by amb1063]

Well, that could be the case, angie. But there are reportedly "families" going to be housed at certain cabins.

a few thoughts crossed my mind while reading vals excellent thread and im sure i'll have a few more to add

what will be the consequences of a large amount of desperate, depressed and displaced people being so cut off from normal life (ie tvs, computers, phones, jobs, shopping, freely being abe to come & go etc) staying in one of these camps for 5 months? what are they going to be doing in this camp every single day - sit around the camp fire and sing kumbaya?

there are toys & family cabins, but who is going to be teaching the children?

will they be able to use the phones set up for the 'hosts' use to stay in touch with their families or will they be denied contact with the outside world?

finally, would you be willing to sneak up in a 'through the woods' way to find a way to view the camp if you are denied access once the people are in there (& as your church no longer owns its cabin you will not be able to use 'checking the cabin' as an excuse)

(You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award)

Originally posted by Valhall
Well, that could be the case, angie. But there are reportedly "families" going to be housed at certain cabins.

ohhhh that's right. my bad. sorry val. i remember that because you mentioned the toys.

again............excellent article. i'm going to pass this around to some folks and see what they make of this.

great job!!

angie

Originally posted by justyc

what will be the consequences of a large amount of desperate, depressed and displaced people being so cut off from normal life (ie tvs, computers, phones, jobs, shopping, freely being abe to come & go etc) staying in one of these camps for 5 months? what are they going to be doing in this camp every single day - sit around the camp fire and sing kumbaya?

Some cabins will have TV's. Ours, for instance, does not. According to the mentality of FEMA - this should most likely cause a riot.

We'll work to get our cabin a TV and VCR - I know we have enough VCR movies to last them a while.

there are toys & family cabins, but who is going to be teaching the children?

EXTREMELY good point. If this is handled right (and I'm over-sensationalizing ), these children should be enrolled in the Davis school system by the end of the week, and bussed out and in every day. This will be a measure of how "detained" these people are. If they are going to be there for 5 months, and seeing as the school year just started about 10 days ago - this would allow these children a full semester at least.

will they be able to use the phones set up for the 'hosts' use to stay in touch with their families or will they be denied contact with the outside world?

Don't know. Gotta sawbuck on "no". There is a bank of pay phones at Falls Creek. Guess that's what the "sum of money" is for.

finally, would you be willing to sneak up in a 'through the woods' way to find a way to view the camp if you are denied access once the people are in there (& as your church no longer owns its cabin you will not be able to use 'checking the cabin' as an excuse)

Springer and I are going to stay in close contact with our church's preacher. At this point, I'm up for anything if this turns out to be the way the "hosts" were describing.

I lived 8 years of my life in that are...that's why I know how High Road got it's name . And I know that area pretty darned good.




[edit on 9-6-2005 by Valhall]

Not to mention that in case these were actual places to detain prisoners that lost their prison, the "hosts" would in no way be civilians and stay in the cabins.

FEMA not accepting certain things to be donated(which in perspective with them also refusing fuel, water and food in ON) is just a dumbass decision. They should just accept everything and ship of what they can't use to an international sharity or something, they are plain wasting time for themselves and the people that are contributing with this.

Then, some people here have objections with Valhall calling this a detention/detainment camp.
The people are said not to be allowed to leave the camp for any reason for at least 5 months.
What is not being allowed to leave a location in the middle of nowhere for 5 months called then if it isn't detention or detainment?

Valhall, I strongly agree that this is something you should go public with. Just give your account of what you've seen and sell the pictures to the press (yes I say sell the pictures, so that the money you get from it can be turned to charity, like that the press at least does something decent instead of just scavenge the misery of others for top stories).

And the press can choose to publish the story in whatever interpretation they want. You can use it as a test to see if they twist and turn what you've seen and heard and testify to them, to whatever FEMA and the goverment wants to be heard by the public or if they relay your story the way you gave it to them.

Your own and original published story is here on ATS, protected by the ATS content copyrights.

Great Article.

Well, all I can say Valhall is that they had an impression of wanting you out of there, if you ask me ... It's amazing how you took so many photos and they didn't ask why you were taking them? Of their cars, their personel, etc...

I have a single question though, Why 5 months? It kind of seems too long to let such population stay there for a while ... I know they may have lost their jobs, houses, infact some of their loved ones ... but 5 months? Now if they can't talk with the outside world (correct?) and must live there for 5 months without any word to their relatives that they are indeed there ... it looks like some sort of secret camp ... hopefully they'll treat them well and we won't hear rumors of dying refugees because of 'accidents' ... if you get my point.

Anyways ... great article, I'm barely awake though ... it's like 7 am here ...

Peace.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by Zeta_101]

tm,

I have gone public with it. You apparently don't understand how many eyes view what are on this board. There is no reason to give this to anybody else. What are you talking about the grinning drama-whores in mainstream media?

No thanks. We'll keep up with this right here on ATS, but feel free to pass the link if this turns out the way they are describing.


[edit on 9-6-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Zeta_101


I have a single question though, Why 5 months? It kind of seems too long to let such population stay there for a while ... I know they may have lost their jobs, houses, infact some of their loved ones ... but 5 months? Now if they can't talk with the outside world (correct?) and must live there for 5 months without any word to their relatives that they are indeed there ... it looks like some sort of secret camp ... hopefully they'll treat them well and we won't hear rumors of dying refugees because of 'accidents' ... if you get my point.

Okay, as far as I know they will be able to make phone calls. As far as I know, if they have relatives they want to go live with they can do that. As far as I know. I'm assuming these things, but this is what the host stated when my son said "you mean they can't leave here!" (when he was explaining to us that they wouldn't be able to come and go from the camp) the host replied they could leave, they just couldn't ever come back and then he said "if they have family they want to go stay with, they can leave, but they can't ever come back".

Originally posted by thematrix
The people are said not to be allowed to leave the camp for any reason for at least 5 months.
What is not being allowed to leave a location in the middle of nowhere for 5 months called then if it isn't detention or detainment?

I don't think that was said. They can leave, but cannot come back was what I understood. Now given the location and the total lack of any personal property this may be more than a trivial exersize. But if a relative calls me from the camp based on what I understood from the intial post I could go and pick them up. But they cannot return.

well I'd like to think that someone would complain about MREs being inhumane
remeber the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay their eating choice foods because people complained now if the Refugees or maybe I should call them "Deatainees" will be forced to eat MREs I would think this is a sader state of affairs then it already is

Haha ... Military food ... bleh.