Urgh what an ugly lady. Problem is she isn't even being sarcastic, sorry if I came off like her..

I only believe I am qualified to say it even remotely because I have lived in crap and I have experienced having nothing. And I know what it feels like to simply appreciate being alive. And I of course also appreciate having pretty good wealth these days. But I tend to rarely moan when things arn't ideal becasue I know what it's like to touch the bottom...
I just can appreciate having nothing, and I tihnk that the conditions are actually pretty good considering.

Yes prisoner's have it better, but that's down to all the human rights activists, not the government.



[edit on 6-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

Val, I just finished reading your first hand experience with the government assisting with refugees, and at first I kind of got very upset that government officials will denied the generosity that you and your family were offering.

I guess the person in charge wants to keep control of everything that has to do with the care of the people.

Some of the comments that you, your son and mother had to hear were probably from the mouth of officials that are not very careful of the way they express themselves with relation of the people that they will be taking care off.

Been of less than privilege class is not excused for them to make comments like that, and I am particular outraged by the comment on the teen girls and their miscarriages, that shows that this people are under very debilitating stress that can developed into very bad health problems later.

I guess that keeping them away from any surrounding community will help in case of any outbreak from been in inffected waters for so long.

It could be some problems with that.

But like you said, I as an American citizen would never allowed no government official to keep me from going any where I want to.

I told my husband after seen what is going on with evacuation centers that If it comes to having to leave my home in an unexpected situation I will never, never, will go to a government made evacuation center.

I will make sure I leave with plenty of time so I get to chose where to go.

Is very hard braking to see the people that has no choice but to wait for government assistant and charity to take care of them.

Hopefully the people in the cabins will be treated with respect and consideration regardless of social disadvantage they are still Americans and they are most God fearing Christian people.

I am also concern that they will be denied their freedom of religious gathering like having services from local churches.

Perhaps you will follow up to see what is next.

Originally posted by Valhall
Agent,

I understand what you're saying (you lost me for a bit, but now I understand). Really, I'm not talking about "inconveniences" and expecting life's niceties to be as they were before this. I'm talking about a government assisting a group of people through a tough time without the group of people having to give up inherent rights to get that help.

That's all in the world that is on my mind right now. Do I want them to have three meals a day? Yes. But if the government can't give them three, and can only give them two, that's okay as long as the government doesn't prevent me, a fellow citizen, from providing the third meal. That about sums up my concerns right now.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Valhall]

I see completely where your coming from, and if more people were like you then it would be possible. But if it's just you, you can;t provide all of them with that third meal so they have to say no, or some will be better off than others and that will cause problems. I think that's how they see it..

But you are right in what you say and I wish more people had the same attitude, to be honest I'm just trying to justify why they are acting the way they are so people don't judge them unfairly.

It is just a very, very sad situation.....

Now you know one of the things that Eminent Domain ruling might be used for!

That's just...unreal. Scary.

Again I don't disagree. I lost my apartment and most of my stuff in the 94 quake, but nothing compared to these folks.

And it's not so much that they wont provide three meals it's sort of a slippery slope thing for me. If they're only providing two meals it's a mentality that could spin out of control, The mentality of, it's good enough for them is a bad place for a humanitarian effort to start.

I'm sure the hosts won't be having two meals a day, but I'm pretty sure they'll help themselves to pop tarts.

IMO of course and as always.


Spiderj

Originally posted by Amethyst
Now you know one of the things that Eminent Domain ruling might be used for!

That's just...unreal. Scary.

Eminent Domain will be used to screw the rightful owners out of their property in New Orleans
after the bulldozers level all the condemned property standing in the way of high density development.

Much of the historic French Quarter may be saved, but everything else will be fair game.

The existing property owners will be given assessed value as "fair market value" and then rezone for the greatest profit.

Of course they'll still have to find someone to insure the re-development plan.

Meanwhile the detainees won't have any way to even show up in court to protect their property rights.

Just watch

Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree

Originally posted by Amethyst
Now you know one of the things that Eminent Domain ruling might be used for!

That's just...unreal. Scary.

Eminent Domain will be used to screw the rightful owners out of their property in New Orleans
after the bulldozers level all the condemned property standing in the way of high density development.

I was talking about the land apparently being taken from the church. I'm willing to guess that's what happened.

Originally posted by Spiderj
Again I don't disagree. I lost my apartment and most of my stuff in the 94 quake, but nothing compared to these folks.

And it's not so much that they wont provide three meals it's sort of a slippery slope thing for me. If they're only providing two meals it's a mentality that could spin out of control, The mentality of, it's good enough for them is a bad place for a humanitarian effort to start.

I'm sure the hosts won't be having two meals a day, but I'm pretty sure they'll help themselves to pop tarts.

IMO of course and as always.


Spiderj

Emm I'm seeing your point there, I might have swung too much the other way... Maybe I should pay more attention to what I preach about everything not being black and white.
I guess they could make more of an effort, even if that extra meal was cereal it would be better than nothing and still be nutricious and filling. It wouldn't cost much either.

You do have a point, the more we are willing to give up, the more is taken away..

even if that extra meal was cereal it would be better than nothing and still be nutricious and filling.

yep even Oprah thinks we should be getting more fiber, and I believe Valhall has some extra cereal so lets hope they let outsiders feed the detainess if they want.

This is starting to sound more and more like one of those petting zoos where you can go and feed the goats...and that's probably not good.

Spiderj

Anyone have a better idea of what to do with 1 million refugees?

Seriously, I'm waiting.

"Uhh... you can't just leave donated goods in the cabins. FEMA has stated they want all supplies to go to their central warehouse. They said they have had far too many supplies come in and they need to handle them. You can't leave ANY clothes."

I just stared at them.

Yep, because it's an absolutely ludicrious idea that they would have inventory and logistical control. Best thing to do is to just have items randomly given out.

Now, I'm not saying that this is a good thing. Sticking people in "detainment" camps (see, I can use ominous quotation marks too) is pretty horrible. But seriously, there are a MILLION people right now that can't go home. Because they don't have a home. That's twice the population of Wyoming. This isn't a Disney movie, when bad # happens, less than ideal methods may need to be used.

Now, why wouldn't they want people to leave? Let's say that the camp is full. Bob decides to go on a hike for a week. How long is the camp supposed to wait until they fill the vacancy left by Bob? What are they supposed to do when Bob comes back and demands his now-occupied bed? How are they supposed to create a supply network when the "population" of each camp keeps changing? One camp will end up with too much food, one will have too little... Not to mention that you really don't want a bunch of homeless people wandering around. The people in these camps have NOTHING, if you want to try to help them rebuild their lives you have to impose some sort of structure.

Note: Before anyone says that people might want to leave to visit family and friends... I doubt anyone would want to visit family that forced them to live in the camp instead of on the living room couch. I don't see such a thing becoming an issue.

And "Base" probably refers to whatever their central command cabin is. You know, the offices and such. May as well call it "Base" as much as anything else.

As for only two meals a day... better than Meals on Wheels. All that matters is nutrients and calories, the idea of three meals in simply a cultural one. I haven't eaten breakfast in about 10 years, and I'm healthy as can be.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Esoterica]

Originally posted by Spiderj

even if that extra meal was cereal it would be better than nothing and still be nutricious and filling.

yep even Oprah thinks we should be getting more fiber, and I believe Valhall has some extra cereal so lets hope they let outsiders feed the detainess if they want.

This is starting to sound more and more like one of those petting zoos where you can go and feed the goats...and that's probably not good.

Spiderj

Emm I honestly wasn't being sarcastic that time... That other comment was the only sarcastic one really. It is a sad situation, I picked cereal because I know it's good for you, it's filling and it's cheap.
I might have misunderstood but I thought you might have thought I was being sarcastic, I might just be being paranoid..

anyone got any vacant rental property they'd be willing to lease free if charge a few months, just till a famility gets settled into your community.

really, how are they susposed to fing jobs way out in the middle of nowhere? our fine government at their finest....keep them dependant as long as possible.

I don't go with the idea that these people are at any higher risk of criminal activity than anyone other group of people either. give them a job, a place to stay, and well a chance to get restarted, and they will be fine.....as soon as the shock and trauma subsides some.

I do hope this is just a temporary situation for them, just until they can be relocated into a community, with jobs, and the opportunity to rebuild their lives......which should take 5 months...

maybe since they are saying that they have enough supplies, the churches should use their money to "adopt" some of these families.....bring them into their community, provide them with housing, food and such, and well, help them get established. I don't know, but this sounds like it will just be extending the pain longer. One thing is for sure, it would be better to spread them across the country, in places where there are lots of jobs than to plop them in just a few areas. especially areas where there's nothing around.

I was thinking about the homeless last night. Believe you me, if I had the money, the room, and the means (not to mention hubby's blessing), I'd be letting some of them stay with us, here in Ohio.

While everyone worries about roo for the Katrina victims, I cant stop thinking that Joel Olstein for example amongst many other TV preachers have gigantic Churches and could very well open them to the victims... of course that would imply loosing a couple of weekend donations....

I honestly wasn't being sarcastic that time...

I didn't think you were, and unfortunately i wasn't being sarcastic either.

Spiderj

[edit on 9/6/2005 by Spiderj]

Originally posted by jsobecky


Val - your state has a $400 million dollar surplus?! Geez, does money grow on trees out there?

Oh! That's where that money went. This past year the state passed a lottery, but the legislature wouldn't pass the funding. So we have a lottery with no money - that $400 million must be it!



I live in one weird place, I'll tell you.

Originally posted by dawnstar
"..how are they susposed to find jobs way out in the middle of nowhere? our fine government at their finest....keep them dependant as long as possible.."

They could always be employed to make Nike trainers and Gap sweatshirts for $0.50 an hour, and make a dent in the volume of cheap Far-Eastern imports.
A win/win situation, jobs for the the thousands of refugees trying to get back on their feet, and a huge cheap labour force for the US economy

Originally posted by dawnstar
our fine government at their finest....keep them dependant as long as possible.

It sounds like your suggesting that these people were on welfare, and that the govt wants to keep them that way? Why in the world would they do that? I'm sure they don't want to have to take care of these people any longer than is necessary. It is going to cost a fortune to house and feed them. The same goes for all the NWO people who think we are all going to be put into concentrations camps. What good is it to put a population of people into concentrations camps and let them stand around doing nothing. Why not let them continue to work for a living and house and feed themselves?