Lockerbie Evidence Was Planted By The CIA, page 2
Pages: <<  1    2    3  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 1-9-2005 @ 10:11 PM by TheShroudOfMemphis
Originally posted by Nygdan
Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
Why does a conspiracy forum, a place for discussion and research, always have people demanding direct and absolute proof of, for example CIA involvement

This is not a conspiracy advocacy forum, this is a discussion forum. Many topics focus on conspiracy. I hardly think it surprising that people request proof that the CIA planted evidence. This guy isn't claiming to be one of the planters, he's claiming to be an investigator with Scotland Yard who discovered that the evidence was planted, therefore, he came across some evidence that convinced him that they did this. It's preposterous to beleive this claim without the evidence.


So how is demanding absolute proof straight off the bat contributing to 'discussion'?

Discussion will either bring this topic to truth or not, let it happen. Why people see America, CIA, Bush etc and then all of a sudden demand levels of proof which go beyond most peoples capacities is beyond me.

We can have thread after thread about anoymous, random, internet postings on message boards from 'terrorists' which provokes outcries and calls for war support, yet when the opposite party is put in the spotlight, all of a sudden hard proof is demanded or else the topic is whitewashed as a falacy.

If there's no proof, this story will fade away but as it stands it was worthy to bring up and it's worthy of further investigation and discussion. What's pointless is doing the 'Prove It' tatic some posters here use like they have it waiting on their clipboard to be pasted in.


reply posted on 4-9-2005 @ 12:17 AM by TheShroudOfMemphis
Originally posted by Nygdan
Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
So how is demanding absolute proof straight off the bat contributing to 'discussion'?

How is it contributing to the discussion? That is discussion, you make a claim, I say 'what supports that', you present it, see?


. What's pointless is doing the 'Prove It' tatic some posters here use like they have it waiting on their clipboard to be pasted in.

Whats pointless is saying that we should accept a claim as true without evidence. This guy made a claim, and a bunch of peopel agree with him, literally for no good reason.




Sigh, Hellmut posting a link to a story. You demand evidence, so that instantly dead-ends the story right there. POINTLESS.

If you can prove this guy wrong, prove it. If not, accept it, research it, find out more and add it to this thread. Keep a grain of salt handy for sure but to just demand proof without adding anything of your own is pointless.

I don't see why that's hard to understand? You don't accept the claim, fine, move on, ignore it, but to DEMAND proof is pointless if your not going to add a counter-arguement or counter-evidence. If you can't counter this claim with proof, then why demand proof to back it up?

What ever... it's not the first thread to be squashed by the 'prove it' crowd.

I just think you should let this thread evolve or die without trying to step on it. There's plenty of reasons why theres only a limited amount of evidence right now, mainly the fact that if you came out in public pointing the finger at the CIA without going the legal route first, you'd probably be swimming with the fishes before dinner.

Keg has provide more info, read those posts.


reply posted on 4-9-2005 @ 11:11 AM by Rasputin13
Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Originally posted by Rasputin13
What a joke! Show me some PROOF that the CIA was responsible for the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, and I'll shut up.


Colour me wronglypurpled, but that's not the claim, is it?

The allegation is that the CIA planted evidence - not that they actually orchestrated and/or carried out the bombing itself, non?

Before this gets muddied any further, it'd probably be prudent to actually sort the wheat from the chaffe in terms of what is and isn't being alleged here.


Actually, if you read any of my posts, the claim I was referring to was made by America's #1 Fan, Souljah. His claim is that based on the Pan Am bombing, the CIA is a terrorist organization. Thus, he implied that the CIA was involved in the bombing itself, as planting evidence obviously doesn't make them terrorists.

Now I don't want to hear about CIA involvement in Nicaragua, Panama, etc. We're talking about the case at hand. Obviously there are countless events one could bring up to validate the claim that the CIA is a terrorist organization. But that wasn't what Souljah was basing it on. If it was, then he completely misspoke. So everyone please relax, stop attacking me, and let's allow Souljah to provide some sort of "evidence" that the CIA was responsible for the Pan Am 103 bombing. Obviously I'm not asking for absolute proof. I'm not asking for a signed confession. But I'm also not asking for "Tim's Geocities site" either. Just give us some good reasons, maybe some shreds of evidence thrown in there, that the CIA is a terrorist organization because they were responsible for the Pan Am 103 bombing.

Ya see boys and girls... Souljah presented his America-hating hypothesis that the CIA is a terrorist organization because of the Pan Am 103 incident. Now this is the part where he backs up his hypothesis with a little more than just "America sucks" rhetoric. Now I hope I've cleared up what it is that I was trying to say in my previous posts for all of you Rasputin13-bashers.


reply posted on 4-9-2005 @ 12:45 PM by Tinkleflower
Originally posted by Rasputin13
Actually, if you read any of my posts, the claim I was referring to was made by America's #1 Fan, Souljah. His claim is that based on the Pan Am bombing, the CIA is a terrorist organization. Thus, he implied that the CIA was involved in the bombing itself, as planting evidence obviously doesn't make them terrorists.


Yet oddly, I didn't get that from Souljah's post. I caught the implication that the CIA was a terrorist organisation, but not that they'd directly organised/carried out the Lockerbie attack.

Maybe that's just a difference in perception between us both.


Now I don't want to hear about CIA involvement in Nicaragua, Panama, etc. We're talking about the case at hand. Obviously there are countless events one could bring up to validate the claim that the CIA is a terrorist organization.


And I can see how the two separate issues can in fact be quite definitively linked. I'm not sure we can exclude the former if the latter is obvious?


But that wasn't what Souljah was basing it on. If it was, then he completely misspoke. So everyone please relax, stop attacking me, and let's allow Souljah to provide some sort of "evidence" that the CIA was responsible for the Pan Am 103 bombing.


I don't think everyone's attacking you dude. But, I second the call for evidence. Frankly, I've seen nothing to even vaguely "prove" that the CIA carried out the attack.


Now I hope I've cleared up what it is that I was trying to say in my previous posts for all of you Rasputin13-bashers.


Not being one of 'em, I can't comment. But you did clarify your position - and for that, thank you


reply posted on 4-9-2005 @ 01:35 PM by Rasputin13

Not being one of 'em, I can't comment. But you did clarify your position - and for that, thank you



And for that, I thank you! I guess there are two sides to a coin. I took Souljah's comments as if he was claiming the CIA was behind the bombing. I figured he wouldn't call the CIA a terrorist organization simply for planting evidence, so I felt (and still do until he asserts otherwise) that he was insinuating that the CIA was responsible for the attack.

As for the others posts ranting about people who ask for evidence and proof and so on... I hope you weren't referring to me. I have no gripe with the original poster, and never asked for any evidence from him. The source for the claim that the CIA planted evidence is currently anonymous, and will remain so indefinitely. Therefore, I wouldn't ask the original poster for any evidence which he would not be able to produce. He did what all good ATS members do- he found an interesting and relevant article, posted it in the appropriate forum, made a personal comment about the story, and opened the floor to discussion. I thank him for that.

I do, however, respect those who require evidence. I don't always agree with them, though. But I don't feel as though they should be attacked simply because they want more facts. If they're too lazy to look them up themselves, then that's an entirely different case. But if they choose not to believe something that someone else does believe, that is their choice. So long as they voice their dissenting opinions in a respectable manner, then they should be treated fairly and not criticized for requiring additional evidence.

With all that being said, believing or disbelieving this story will just come down to your gut feeling. At this point, it appears all we have is the word of this unnamed Police Chief. If you feel that a man of his position and his experience, who comes forward over a decade later has no reason to lie, then you can choose to believe him. If you feel he is not telling the truth, or is just opportunistic, then you can choose not to believe him. Or you can find yourself in the third group- the much criticized group in this thread whom are waiting out for additional evidence/proof. I think that is where I will remain for the time being.


reply posted on 13-9-2008 @ 11:01 PM by Hellmutt
Here are more indications of Libya taking the blame for Lockerbie.


Libyan Nuke Program Was CIA-MI6 Sting Op

"The concessions included allowing the USA and Britain to lay the blame on Libya for the downing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie which killed hundreds of people. To this day the real perpetrators of this crime have not been sought, with an innocent Libyan languishing in a Scottish jail," Mathaba.net wrote.

Although Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi had been granted a second extraordinary appeal last year, his defense lawyers are denied the right to access secret documents provided by an unknown third country and believed to be highly relevant to the case.

In the wake of Secretary of State Rice's visit to Libya, the name of Megrahi was removed from the State Department's Rewards for Justice Web site. No explanation has so far been provided. As a former CIA operative in the Middle East told me, this is rather strange…

Pages: <<  1    2    3  >>    ^^TOP^^



ALL ATS`ers are terrorists
  Posted 4 days ago with 10 member flags
CNN Endorsing Terrorism
  Posted 7 days ago with 7 member flags
Obama\'s terror Drones.
  Posted 5 days ago with 6 member flags
Pair Detained in Twitter Homeland Threat Mix-Up
  Posted 12 days ago with 5 member flags

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:

Official Maine Caucus Results Thread!!
  2012 US Elections, Posted 17 hours ago, 166 replies
AP: WHITNEY HOUSTON DEAD
  People, Posted 9 hours ago, 80 replies
Why conservatives . . . . . suck!
  Political Ideology, Posted 10 hours ago, 56 replies
war hungry Iran
  Middle East Issues, Posted 16 hours ago, 41 replies