Masonic Government involved with Child Abuse and Pedophilia?

Originally posted by wiggy
My only fear, is that ACTUAL pedophiles/ crimanals wil be attracted to various "secret societys". I could realy care less what a holy roller thought, but peaking some fiends intrest ( all the sex magic referances) worrys me.

For as long as people still think sex is a bad thing.. your gona get fiends.

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by wiggy
My only fear, is that ACTUAL pedophiles/ crimanals wil be attracted to various "secret societys". I could realy care less what a holy roller thought, but peaking some fiends intrest ( all the sex magic referances) worrys me.

For as long as people still think sex is a bad thing.. your gona get fiends.

Well, I was refering to sexual divients, I did not mean to come off as feeling sex was bad. Sex with children on the other hand..........

Originally posted by AngelWitch

Originally posted by suzy ryan

Originally posted by wiggy

Originally posted by suzy ryan

Sorry but if the police have the info. then the brother/sisterhoods have it to and my experience is you can't trust secret societies. They should be tracking perpertrators not their children when it's already too late. They should be 'dobbing in' their mates who prey on children instead of giving them alibies and glowing references.

Are you that dense? The parents keep EVERYTHING, if the kid comes up missing, they turn the packet over to the police. The police do not have it. Try to stay close to earth, and make your posts a little more coherent. Not sure if you need to go up or down on the meds, but somewhere there is a chemical imbalance.

Oh if only there was only medication for folk who put their pride and that of their mates above protecting and supporting the far too many victims/survivers of the cold, heartless, insulting powerfull.

There is only truth in life, you have chosen lies

Are you telling me I'm dead?

Gee, the paranoid would take that as a threat.

Lucky for me and mine I'm neither or I would have a cold and hungry household...not to mention the stench of death following me around as I commune with real life people. But don't feel bad, my occult practicing mother told me I'd be dead before her and going by her age and health, you won't have long to wait... Sorry but we need a sence of humour to cope with the heartless of the world...and our humour can come out as scattered, mixed with the horror of this topic.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Oh, yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiight! Look, maybe the author isn't about points, but he sure as hell isn't about justice! The author cares about making Freemasons look bad, and warping all possible information to suit his twisted agenda.

You anti-masons really are a piece of work. If you were on trial, you would MAKE SURE that your judges had all the hardest, undoubtable and most conclusive evidence possible before convicting you. But when you're the judge, simple heresay, conjecture and circumstance is enough to condemn the accused.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by sebatwerk]

To Wiggy: Okay, you're the third person who thinks I'm a female. I repeat what I said earlier, having a female movie star as an avatar doesn't automatically give someone a sex change. mmkay?

Look, I'm not saying the CHIP program is pointless. I don't know how it exactly works when they're actually searching for the missing child. All I read is "The world's most comprehensive child identification program has now ID'ed more than 200,000 children." Does that mean they have SAVED 200,000 from the perpetrators or just ID'd them hoping they will prevent another kid from being missing? Which is it? The problem I see here is that nobody is looking at the reasons WHY they are missing. I don't see any PREVENTION program in place to catch the perpetrators! All I see is a bunch of kids being ID'd. I'm reading their "brochure" and it says that kids must "Spit for Safety!" leaving a trail so it'll be easier to track them. Well, has that WORKED? If so, where are the "evil men" who kidnapped them? I'm assuming spitting to leave a trail will leave a trail to trap the "bad guys". The problem will just be an endless cycle of missing children if the root of the problem isn't taken care of.

Regarding my views on masons, I never said that ALL masons are part of this grand scheme of global control (aka NWO) or out to sacrifice babies. But I do believe there are sick people out there and I do BELIEVE that there's many masons that ARE part of this! Believe it or not, it's your choice! I think NeonHelmet has provided enough proof that raises great concern and demands serious questions! All this talk about False Memories and AGENDAS must be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard when it comes to defending a traumatized child or a loving parent. Are you implying they are stupid or brainwashed?

So sebatwerk, you're all about justice and I'm not? At least I'm opening a discussion about this! Most people have never heard these horrific stories! I'm not about upping my points just for the hell of it. I want to engage others in real conversations, NOT to put anyone down with personal attacks. Are you also implying that these cases don't hold any weight because you think it's "simple heresay, conjecture and circumstance?" Well sorry, but I've read enough to say that it isn't. Do you have that much faith in our system? Our Government? Do you trust that easily? What piece of evidence do you desire? A video perhaps? A photo? You're asking for the impossible. Use your hearts and minds. 99% of the time the truth will nudge you so hard within anything or anyone won't stand in your way because you will know that the pure of heart will prevail.

Part of the reason why this thread has inexplicably now run to 4 pages is the usual misunderstanding of freemasonry from some quarters.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I don't agree with Mason-baiting, but I think it's funny how they seem so sure of how their whole organization operates.

Ever considered why we're all so sure? because we're in it, and we know it. I've been researching many different aspects of freemasonry for over 10 years now, including most of the issues/allegations that pop up on ATS from time to time.

Group thinking is for the mentally weak, so I cannot understand why anyone would join.

This is because you misunderstand the organisation. Freemasonry develops the individual. There is no 'group thinking' as you describe it. It's a wonderful personal development program but freemasons don't get spoonfed - we have to find our own answers.

The only masons I know are younger, super-smart ones and they view the society as a graft-club for old codgers.

They can't that super-smart if they stay members of an organisation they don't see the benefit of.

Is the Masonic world really so transparent that you are utterly certain of every Mason's behavior and every alliance made by every Mason in every coatroom? As has been mentioned, even a Catholic will admit that priests can get up to some pretty sick behavior. Why can't Masons admit this also?

Yes, freemasonry is pretty transparent. Too transparent for some people, who insist on trying to find more than is really there. And of course I'm not certain of every mason's behaviour - but that's the whole point. You confuse freemasons with freemasonry. So let me state for the record...

1. Individual freemasons may or may not get involved in all kinds of stuff. I have no way of knowing, one way or the other.

2. Freemasonry as an organisation has no agenda other than the development of the individual for the better. Neither it, not any official elite within it, is manipulating government, controlling the markets, abusing children or generally controlling anything behind the scenes.

Why anyone thinks it does tells us more about them than about freemasonry

It just struck me, anyone who thinks someone else cares more about earning points on a web site than defending and protecting victims of organized child abuse, by raising awarerness, has a seriously odd way of looking at the world. Some could even be forgiven for calling it dark and twisted.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
It just struck me, anyone who thinks someone else cares more about earning points on a web site than defending and protecting victims of organized child abuse, by raising awarerness, has a seriously odd way of looking at the world. Some could even be forgiven for calling it dark and twisted.

What struck you was a lower branch of the ignorance tree as you continued your fall into stupidity.

All of this has been brought up before, but someone would rather start a new thread, to increase their points.

I'd say the reason this thread has run to 4 pages is that it is very important to expose the fact, that all over the world, horrific things done to children are being covered up and the victims are verbally re- abused for speaking out. It ain't just some masons but alot of very powerfull people who believe they can make their own law.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Masons are not the only ones involved or accussed (through proper, official channels) but they are the ones who claim to be, only benevolent, yet refuse to join the fight for justice for the victims of these horrors.

If individual who happen to be masons are involved in this sort of thing, and it is proven, they will be ejected from the fraternity. Freemasonry will have nothing to do with this sort of behaviour. It has been proven beyond question, in the UK at least, that the police and judiciary are NOT riddled with freemasons so you can be more confident that when the police say there is not enough evidence to prosecute, that is exactly what they mean with no other agenda.

Why not use that world wide fraternity to track down and stop these indivduals instead of insulting and belittleing the survivers who dare to speak out about what is still going on every day, all over the world?

If you knew anything about freemasonry you would know that (a) there is no world-wide supra-national masonic hierarchy and (b) it is explicity against freemasonry's 'terms of reference' to get involved in anything other than's its core activity of 'making good men better'. It cannot, and will not (as an organisation) ever give an opinion on any matter which is not explicitly masonic.

I know of at least one freemason, Bill McElligott, who has offered to assist you from within the organisation to find out if any of your allegations are true. Did you take him up on the offer?

There are others, myself included, who would be pleased to help also.

Originally posted by wiggy
What struck you was a lower branch of the ignorance tree as you continued your fall into stupidity.

Continue! Continue with the insults. Can anyone tell me who's the one looking stupid? I wonder. Maybe you should be a mason, they teach manners!

All of this has been brought up before, but someone would rather start a new thread, to increase their points.

What a lame comeback. Please, don't embarrass yourself.

Read my last Post. Number: 1607926.

Originally posted by wiggy

Originally posted by suzy ryan
It just struck me, anyone who thinks someone else cares more about earning points on a web site than defending and protecting victims of organized child abuse, by raising awarerness, has a seriously odd way of looking at the world. Some could even be forgiven for calling it dark and twisted.

What struck you was a lower branch of the ignorance tree as you continued your fall into stupidity.

All of this has been brought up before, but someone would rather start a new thread, to increase their points.

Again, insult the surviver instead of joining the good fight. Great way to convince folk that masons and their strong supporters are all sweetness and light.

Originally posted by suzy ryan

Originally posted by AngelWitch

Originally posted by Cattlest

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Masons are not the only ones involved or accussed (through proper, official channels) but they are the ones who claim to be, only benevolent, yet refuse to join the fight for justice for the victims of these horrors. Why not use that world wide fraternity to track down and stop these indivduals instead of insulting and belittleing the survivers who dare to speak out about what is still going on every day, all over the world?

Actually I've heard Masons are asking for measures to help keep find missing children. The intent behind these actions has been subject of discussion in this very forum. Here you go, Suzy, www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 12-8-2005 by Cattlest]

That would be CHIP. The CHild Idetification Program, I have participated in this for the past 2 years in my town. The parents walk away with a valuable data at no cost and nothing is retained by the Masons other than how many.

Sorry but if the police have the info. then the brother/sisterhoods have it to and my experience is you can't trust secret societies. They should be tracking perpertrators not their children when it's already too late. They should be 'dobbing in' their mates who prey on children instead of giving them alibies and glowing references.

1. The police and freemasonry are not in cahoots
2. Freemasonry is not a secret society
3. How do you identify a child molester before he's done any molesting?
4. Freemasons will always 'dob' on a paedophile brother because the two terms are utterly incompatible.

So I take it you don't like the CHIP program. It does rather fly in the face of your ridiculous allegation that freemasons are behind an abuse conspiracy, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by suzy ryan

Originally posted by AngelWitch

Originally posted by Cattlest

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Masons are not the only ones involved or accussed (through proper, official channels) but they are the ones who claim to be, only benevolent, yet refuse to join the fight for justice for the victims of these horrors. Why not use that world wide fraternity to track down and stop these indivduals instead of insulting and belittleing the survivers who dare to speak out about what is still going on every day, all over the world?

Actually I've heard Masons are asking for measures to help keep find missing children. The intent behind these actions has been subject of discussion in this very forum. Here you go, Suzy, www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 12-8-2005 by Cattlest]

That would be CHIP. The CHild Idetification Program, I have participated in this for the past 2 years in my town. The parents walk away with a valuable data at no cost and nothing is retained by the Masons other than how many.

Sorry but if the police have the info. then the brother/sisterhoods have it to and my experience is you can't trust secret societies. They should be tracking perpertrators not their children when it's already too late. They should be 'dobbing in' their mates who prey on children instead of giving them alibies and glowing references.

1. The police and freemasonry are not in cahoots
2. Freemasonry is not a secret society
3. How do you identify a child molester before he's done any molesting?
4. Freemasons will always 'dob' on a paedophile brother because the two terms are utterly incompatible.

So I take it you don't like the CHIP program. It does rather fly in the face of your ridiculous allegation that freemasons are behind an abuse conspiracy, doesn't it?

What the flameing hell is the use of the CHIP program while the corrupt keep playing the"false memoury" card in their game of DENY, DENY, DENY.

I'm am realy biting my tongue here but the 'average' baby @$%*%@ GOES THROUGH HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN AND THE VERY FEW WHO SPEAK UP AND ARE BELIEVED STILL GET NO JUSTICE!!!!!

Please go back and read ALL of Neonhelmet's lenghthy post on this thread and then UNDERSTAND, THIS IS STILL A TINY TIP OF THE ICEBURGH THAT CREATS SO MANY COLD, HARD HEARTS.

1. Individual freemasons may or may not get involved in all kinds of stuff. I have no way of knowing, one way or the other.

So they could group together and do stuff that you don't know about. Right? You don't think there could be "secret doors" and "compartments" within your frat?

Look, I couldn't care less about what Masons do or if they think it makes them better men. It's a club. Clubs don't interest me because when people group together they automatically develop a herd mentality that causes them to defend the group even when reason says otherwise. However, when a group whines about being picked on so much, it tends to make one want to pick on them more.

Be fair, you guys do invite most of the persecution you get. In spite of tons of charity, if you've got a secret club, you're gonna get bashed. Take it like men and stop whining. Why does the fraternity need so much defending? Why not shine it on?

BTW, this argument about users posting anti-mason stuff to get "points" is just stupid. It's a subject people want to discuss. I've met victims of very ritualized, organized child abuse, and they compell me to investigate. Their abusers have power and so are harder to pin down.

But frankly, the Masons don't have any more child molestors than any other secretive group, IMO.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by Trinityman
1. The police and freemasonry are not in cahoots

Okay. :shrug:

I don't see how anyone can prove that anyway.

2. Freemasonry is not a secret society

Are the meetings and gatherings in the lodge done in total secrecy or are they not?

" Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity -- an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect ... it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most August [defined as 'of majestic dignity, grandeur'] fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcannum arcandrum [defined as 'a secret, a mystery']."

Manly P. Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p. 433

Hm, found this video online. Not saying it's the absolute truth but it's just something to look at.

www.megaupload.com...
realplayer required - 18mb

3. How do you identify a child molester before he's done any molesting?

That's a tough one, but I think those involved should start being creative and create some kind of track and prevent program.

So I take it you don't like the CHIP program. It does rather fly in the face of your ridiculous allegation that freemasons are behind an abuse conspiracy, doesn't it?

No it doesn't, but I sure as hell do have questions about it.

Read half way through on this page, Post Number: 1607926 and share your thoughts.

I don't think you're paying attention to a word that's being written.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

1. Individual freemasons may or may not get involved in all kinds of stuff. I have no way of knowing, one way or the other.

So they could group together and do stuff that you don't know about. Right? You don't think there could be "secret doors" and "compartments" within your frat?

How many times do you have to be told that freemasonry isn't secret. Non-members aren't privy to our activities because it's a members-only club. How hard is that to grasp. As long as you continue down the mindset of 'if you can't see what's going on it must be wrong' you will continue to believe that evil exists within freemasonry as well as the boy scouts, golf clubs, rotary, any board meeting or shareholders meeting, indeed any meeting that doesn't throw it's doors open to all and sundry.

Do you even recognise that there is a role within society for privacy?

Look, I couldn't care less about what Masons do or if they think it makes them better men.

That's nice. Perhaps you might recognise that other people do care about it. Passionately.

It's a club.

It's much much more than just a club.

Clubs don't interest me because when people group together they automatically develop a herd mentality that causes them to defend the group even when reason says otherwise.

Herd mentality? In a group that teaches individual personal development? Are you sure you're not getting confused with loyalty? Every freemason (and many who are not) argue their points based on their own individual understanding of freemasonry and their own personal experience. The reason they are all so consistent is because there is a reality here that you and others are missing.

However, when a group whines about being picked on so much, it tends to make one want to pick on them more.

It does? Wow. I guess you have it in for the Jews too. And the Palestinians. In fact any minority grouping who points out an injustice being committed against them is fair game for you to 'ramp it up' and make it worse.

Nice.

Be fair, you guys do invite most of the persecution you get. In spite of tons of charity, if you've got a secret club, you're gonna get bashed. Take it like men and stop whining. Why does the fraternity need so much defending? Why not shine it on?

How so? The fact is, we do what we do. If you don't like it - fine, but I think you're the one whining, about the big bad freemasons who are responsible for so much wrong in the world.

If I verbally abused your mother, would you defend her? Of course. Who wouldn't?

But frankly, the Masons don't have any more child molestors than any other secretive group, IMO.

So which part of freemasonry is secret?

[edit on 13-8-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by Trinityman
1. The police and freemasonry are not in cahoots

Okay. :shrug:

I don't see how anyone can prove that anyway.

Freemasons in the UK have been subject to illegal discrimination by the goverment. Because enough people have repeated enough lies about the fraternity enough times (thanks guys!) the 'there's no smoke without fire' philosphy kicks in. To allay fears in society that the police and judiciary are teeming with freemasons, running the country and generally scratching each others back, members of both were asked, quite against the European Convention on Human Rights, if they were freemasons or not. The results were that only a small minority replied Yes, or didn't reply at all. A vast majority in both organisations said No.

2. Freemasonry is not a secret society

Are the meetings and gatherings in the lodge done in total secrecy or are they not?

See my previous answer to smallpeeps

snipped quote by Hall

I think this has been adequately dealt with elsewhere. Do an ATS search on 'fraternity within a fraternity'.

3. How do you identify a child molester before he's done any molesting?

That's a tough one, but I think those involved should start being creative and create some kind of track and prevent program.

Perhaps you could get more constructive and assist the program with your wide and extensive knowledge of the subject.

So I take it you don't like the CHIP program. It does rather fly in the face of your ridiculous allegation that freemasons are behind an abuse conspiracy, doesn't it?

No it doesn't, but I sure as hell do have questions about it.

Read half way through on this page, Post Number: 1607926 and share your thoughts.

Yes, I read it. You miss the point of the program. It's a child IDENTIFICATION program. Unfortunately in some instances that means bodies. At the very least you must admit this will assist in bringing the perpetrator to justice which will save future children from abuse. If criminal KNOW they're going to get caught only the mentally unstable will attempt to commit the crime.

The point is freemasons don't have to do this. But they do because they care a great deal more than you give them credit for.

Sheeesh. No wonder so many freemasons get so frustrated by the misinformation (or should that be disinformation) spouted on this forum.

Well "they've" done it again. Instead of discussing the horrors committed against children "they've" turned it into a ,'don't pick on us poor masons thread'

. Why? We all know you are misunderstood. Start a thread on that if you must but let people who care about ending corruption discuss the issues without being called hatefull, insulting names.

I love the way you say 'they' like we're all acting in some sort of concerted fashion. We'll we're not. You're talking to ME so treat me like an individual please.

Please remember this is a Secret Societies section, not a child abuse one. If you want to discuss Child Abuse generally this is not the place. If you want to (try and) tie it in to Secret Societies that's fine but don't complain if people put forward a contrary view to your own.

Please point out where I called you names. Or apologise.

I'm 'talking' to whoever wants to read these post and I wrote "they" because not all in the network are masons.

Yes it is a secret society tread and the topic on this one is how damn hard it is to get justice with all this false memoury and other garbage being throw at those who have already suffered more than anyone, good or bad, should.

Saddly the "criminals" that do get gaoled for one or two of the hundreds of children they rape get a release date to look forward to but the survivers are never truely free again.