NEWS: DEA Arrests Canadian...In Canada

I agree with most of the points raised in this thread. I have no problem with banning drugs that have been altered in some way, like coc aine or heroin, to make them "suitable" for ingestion and more addictive. But marijuana laws are just absurd in their current state. The thing grows in the ground just like grass, dandelions, or nettles. It's certainly not responsible for the degree of damage alcohol and cigarettes do.

Mushrooms I could see a point to banning, because the effects of these are much more severe than marijuana and also there is the danger of inadvertant poisoning by people confusing psylocibin mushrooms for poisonous ones.

I have problems with the gateway drug theory- in fact, I think legalization would reduce the chances of weed becoming a gateway drug, for several reasons. First, people try marijana knowing that it's illegal, and then think, 'hey, this is illegal, but it's not so bad... maybe coc aine isn't so bad either, it being illegal too' which is wrong. Second, by making marijana illegal, many of the people who buy it come into contact with unsavory characters who may also deal in other drugs, making it easier for them to buy harder drugs.

Separately from the dangerousness of these drugs, it's not nearly as addictive as cigarettes or alcohol are either. Some people may become dependant on weed, but nowhere near as many as do to alcohol and cigarettes (the latter are pretty much the product of a multi billion dollar research effort to MAKE them addictive, and somehow this is legal but a common weed is not.)

I don't promote marijuana, it's not some kind of miracle drug, although I think it may have medical uses as many claim. But I think we waste a lot of money policing this drug when we could even make money by simply taxing it.

The main argument for banning I think is the 'protect the children' argument which I agree with to a point, but I think that good parenting, as for so many things, is a better solution than spending billions of dollars on policing and jailing for nonviolent, relatively minor marijuana offenses.

Or maybe a better option would be to make it legal for indiviudals who wished to do so to grow it for personal use, but illegal for companies to sell, grow, or market. This way, there wouldn't be any kind of mass marketing promoting marijuana which I don't think is desirable.

-koji K.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by koji_K]

I agree with some of your points. In saying that I feel Canada should have a similar law as the USA - 'midemeanor' meaning in your caught in possession your booked and go to Court.

However, if you lose your case it will ONLY stay on the books against you for two years and will automatically be eliminated. Unless you re-offend during that duration. If you re-offend then add two additional years.

Dallas

Originally posted by Duzey


GradyPhilpott

The name of the pub was the Jolly Alderman, at Cambie and 12th. The VPD doesn't have time for this crap, the Seattle cops were miffed to say the least, and quite frankly, I don't like being called a liar.

I know the place. Plaza 500 Hotel. Casual atmosphere, great food and fabulous drinks, outdoor patio, large screen projection TV with satellite feed. Not as sophisticated as the Remington Lounge.

Maybe Bob was a little too loose that night to get all the facts straight.

Yes and I know the Blueboy..but what has this Pub atmosphere have to do with the subject matter?

Dallas

Pffft.... The Remington. Last time I ate there, there was a ladybug in my salad. Now I only eat downstairs, not that it matters. It still comes from the same kitchen, I'm pretty sure. Great little pub though, as you obviously know.

Bob is always a little loose, he has what we would politely call a 'drinking problem'. But he is just that stupid to offer a total stranger a joint, and this man has unbelievable luck. He once got charged for assaulting a taxi driver. Apparently the man hurt his hand when it broke Bob's nose.

He is also affectionately called 'Spiderman'. After losing his keys after a night at the Alderman, he climbed the side of his building to his second floor apartment. Sadly, he forgot he locked the window becaue his place had been broken into the week before. Then he fell, shattered his heel and had to have surgery.

He was, however, a great roomate my first year in the big city.

The Blueboy no longer exists... Sorry Dallas.

But there's lots of other strip joints in town....

Well if I were the Canadian cops I would have thrown those Seattle cops in jail for a few days on false imprisonment charges to teach them a lesson.

They certainly had no right to do any law enforcement in a foreign nation.

I wonder what these guys would have done if they were in Amsterdam!

[edit on 7/30/2005 by djohnsto77]

The VPD was probably running late and had people to beat up in Stanley Park. They do have priorities, you know......

Just kidding. I looked the place up on Google and plagerized their copy. I'm still having problems with the story. Things like this have a history of embellishment and confabulation.

Who's the Blueboy? Are you talking about this fellow?

It's up to you whether or not you want to believe, but it happened.

The Blueboy was a very popular peeler bar at the foot of Marine Drive and Fraser. The last time I was there it had changed to Doc's. That was well over 8 years ago.

oh how i love my bc....i live just a lil east from vancouver...and we are a beautiful province...but our big problem is marijuana...my city...surrey has reportedly over 4000 GROW OPS!!!! there is nothing we can do .... arresting one person really means nothing...you can get off with a little fine for having a major grow op..its quite hillarious...

i say legalize...if america wants to...lock down the border..its all good..let us legalize and do our thing...there is no way in hell that anyone..not even the government can stop this..for bc its a billion dollar business..and im sure most americans would not want to lose "bc bud"

There are a large number of law enforcement agreements between the U.S. and Canada, as well as International Drug enforcement agreements. The U.S. & Canada have set up a steering group that meets regularly to insure the two govts. work closely together concerning drug traficking and drug enforcement. It's a bit of a stretch to say we or they ordered the arrest of persons on the other side of the border, but we or they are under tight agreements and have sworn to honor one another's requests.

For those of you who want to decriminalize drugs here is an excellent article from Canada:

www.cfdp.ca...

For those of you intrested in cross border cooperation related to drug activities here are a series of links to get you started:

www.cfr.org...
www.drugtext.org...
www.wjin.net...
www.iwar.org.uk...

www.lib.msu.edu...
www.revistainterforum.com...

As you can see, there are a lot more links concerning enforcement of drug laws--which should give you a good idea of which way the wind is blowing as it pertains to drugs.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

canada would not like to be like usa when it comes to laws and personal freedoms.canada shares some laws but we have the best law system in the world that no other can beat.not even mr. bush can fight that one.i agree drugs are bad but respect for other countries laws are needed and right now there is a grab of personal liberties around the world.governments want to see how much they can take away your rights and privacy.dont believe me look around the news you see what i mean....

I agree, put if you say this about marijuana, you have to also say it about the coca leaf, the ergot fungus, and the poppy.

They're certainly not ready to do that.

As far as I know...it is LEGAL to possess and even grow poppies (even opium poppies) in the US. You just can't convert them into opiates. As far as ergot....you do know that morning glory and hawian woodrose seeds and plants contain lysergic acid amides (not '___' 25) but very similar. By the way, ergot is not wholly '___' 25 either....'___' 25 is a man made lysergic amide ('___'...meaning LySergic acid Diethylamide).

Also, I do know for a fact that Marc Emery was selling seeds to the US. Don't ask me how I know, but I'm sure glad that when the DEA busts down my door...they won't be finding anything anymore

There is no doubt Emery was shipping seeds to the States. None whatsoever.

I think the point we are quibbling about is if he was in the US selling seeds. I can say with 99.9% certainty that he was not. When the DEA refers to him selling seeds in person, they are referring to undercover DEA agents coming to his store, in Canada, and purchasing seeds over the counter.

Marc Emery does not travel outside of Canada. He knows the US wants him badly, and they seized the previous site he was selling seeds on.

[edit on 30-7-2005 by Duzey]

The warrant against Emery resulted from his sales of marijuana seeds and paraphernalia over the internet and through the mails. I was wrong about his having personally sold such items within the US, however, according to the source, the warrant has nothing to do with DEA agents purchasing items from Emery in Canada. If it does, I would like to see a source.

You are correct that the warrant has nothing to do with him selling seeds in person. We do have an agreement with the US, and they only need to get RCMP consent to operate undercover ops in Canada. I don't have a link to my statement about the DEA buying in his store, but DEA ops are common knowledge up here. I'm just using the brain God gave me on that one...

There are several documented cases of them running ops up here. I will provide links for two of them.

This is from 2002:

The Mounties said yes. The phoney dealer and his DEA handler came up, and with their RCMP shadows - part of the agreement - they tried to meet the "main guy." Instead they met two other men who grumbled about delays and only wanted to buy one kilogram at a time.

It was a flop. When the immigration permit expired the Mounties put the Americans on a plane. The DEA asked to continue the operation and the RCMP said no. A major investigation aimed at small dealers wasn't a priority.

The DEA seemed to accept the ruling. But a month later one of the undercover agents entered Canada and met with several people about selling them coc aine - including Mr. Licht, according to the court.

The agent entered the country illegally, didn't get RCMP consent and broke Canadian law by offering drugs for sale. He knew what the legal requirements were and simply ignored them, Justice Dillon found.

After the meet Mr. Licht travelled to California and arranged to pay $450,000 cash and 115 pounds of marijuana for 50 kilograms of coc aine. But when the DEA swooped in on the buyu later in the day, Mr. Licht wasn't there. So the U.S. set out to extradite him on conspiracy charges.

Forget it, said Justice Dillon, in a scathing rebuke. The Americans knowingly broke Canadian law and violated international agreements. They conducted an illegal reverse sting operation aimed at Mr. Licht even though they had never heard he was drug dealer. They tried to conceal the information from him and the court. The American's behaviour met the test for serious abuse, ruled Justice Dillon, "an act so wrong that it violates the conscience of the community."

Media Awareness project

Another one:

The US Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) has opened an office in Vancouver, Canada, to a chorus of complaints and protests from BC media and activists.

The DEA maintains 78 offices in 56 countries around the world – Mexico tops the list with eight DEA offices. Most western countries have a DEA office in their capital city. Canada is now one of the few western countries with the honor of having two DEA offices.

A US embassy spokesperson told the Vancouver Sun that BC's marijuana industry was the main reason for the Vancouver office. "You place your staff where there's the most business to be done," he said.

...snip...

Also in 1998, Vancouver police had undercover agents from the US navy operating against Hemp BC and the Cannabis Café, trying to score pot there. The agents were unsuccessful, but did manage to "simulate" smoking their own weed.

www.cannabisculture.com...

Huh, I guess I did have a link, but these were Navy guys. Hemp BC was Emery's previous store.

Hemp BC was a store founded by Marc Emery in Vancouver, Canada, in April 1994. It was one of Canada's very first hemp stores, as selling pipes, bongs and pro-pot books was (and still is) illegal in Canada.

Within a short time Hemp BC had expanded to become a true cannabis superstore. It included the Hemp BC storefront, Hemp BC Wholesale, the Cannabis Cafe, the Little Grow Shop, the Hemp BC Legal Assistance Centre, Marc Emery Direct Marijuana Seeds, and Cannabis Culture Magazine.

In an early issue of Cannabis Culture, Marc Emery explained How to Open a Hemp Store using Hemp BC as a model. Within two years there were over 100 hemp stores and related businesses across Canada, employing and supporting thousands of people. Many of these businesses act as activist centres, providing resources and financial backing to the movement which supports them.

cannabisculture.com...

Okay, so the DEA has offices around the world, but the warrant couldn't have had anything to do with his OTC sales, only that portion that involved shipping seeds and whatnot to the US.

I would like to say that I don't like the drug war. I have probably smoked more pot than most folks on this board. Those facts, however, don't prohibit me from admitting now that pot is not harmless. I managed to do a lot of things while I was stoned. I enjoyed getting stoned, but I have also seen lives ruined by it. I have also seen way too many middle school kids caught up in drugs while their brains and their personalities are still developing.

Drugs are indeed a scourge and I don't say that as self-righteous holier-than-thou nincompoop. I've been on both sides of the argument and have lived the life. Smoking pot does no one any good and the price of smoking is counted not only in dollars, but in character. I say give it up. Life is too important to spend it stoned, whether its legal or not.

I know that the warrant has nothing to do with OTC sales.

I was just trying to clarify the statement that the DEA made. You know, the one you asked us all to watch..... Do you remember this statement you made earlier in the thread?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The subject was arrested on charges of selling an illegal substance, in person, in the United States. Pot heads might not like it, but there is nothing unusual about this arrest.

Now do you understand the point I was trying to make?