I love it how there is completely no mention of this in any US media. Don't want anybody to question what US is doing heating up another war overseas. This potential war will be financed with US money, and US will be largely responsible. But between Iraq, Iran and national affairs nobody in US could give least care.

Maybe because Georgia doesn't really matter all that much in the great scheme of things?

The US is involved in two wars you know, and Russia hasn't been a saint either in this whole situation. I frankely feel sorry for the Georgians. They are stuck between a Rock and a Hard place right now.

FYI, I'm against both American Imperialism and Russian Imperialism. I believe both sides should mind their of fricken business...

Originally posted by sardion2000
Maybe because Georgia doesn't really matter all that much in the great scheme of things?

The US is involved in two wars you know, and Russia hasn't been a saint either in this whole situation. I frankely feel sorry for the Georgians. They are stuck between a Rock and a Hard place right now.

FYI, I'm against both American Imperialism and Russian Imperialism. I believe both sides should mind their of fricken business...

Georgia does matter in the great scheme of things. US has been rapidly expanding its military influence in the area, with the so-called "colored revolutions" (including Uzbekistan, Georgia, Ukraine, and many other CIS countries). US is effectively surrounding Russia with future NATO bloc countries. Don;t be surprised if this leads to another Cold War, or a Russia-China or Russia-India alliance.

Russia hasn't been a saint in Chechnya. It has done a lot of wrong there. However unlike US Russia is not acting aggressively on the world stage. It has not started any wars for the last 20 years (Chechnya is not a war- it is a civil proxy war). There is little reason to suspect any wars in the near future as well (besides affair with Georgia). US on the other hand was involved in dozens of conflicts. Many of these are questionable (Iraq), and a few are obviously illegal (NATO war in Yugoslavia). Russia is trying to hold on to its own territory, while US is trying to expand its military empire. So I'd say the US is a greater "evil" given the current circumstances.

And unlike US, Abkhazia and South Ossetia is Russia's business. They border with the region, and there is an oppressed Russian minority in Georgia. US on the other hand has absolutely no business there, yet that doesn't stop the Bush administration from sending billions (YES BILLIONS) of dollars to Saakashvili's regime. US motto should be "We have a stupendous budget defecit so you can have our puppet regimes".

Originally posted by Nygdan
I notice that the two seperatists regions end in -skaya.

Interesting on a historical note. This is a reference to the scythians of that general region perhaps?

correct answer; who gives a f*@%

...while the russians were probably invovled in the two attempted assasinations of the leader of the Ukranian Orange Revolution? Man they just can't give up eh? Can't they just focus on Chechyna for a while?

I like the propaganda that they are using here, the georgians are 'fascists'. Musta taken it outta some KGB text books that Putin kept from his old days.

Russia wasn't involved in the "assasintation attempts" in ukraine. Yanukovich (pro russian) had an egg thrown at his head which knocked him out. Yushenko (anti-russian) had plastic surgery to make him look younger. after the operation he was in a sauna and drank vodka which trigered bad sidefects after his surgery. I'd know this, I live in kiev. And Russia focuses on chechnya very well, far better than US in Iraq anyways . Oh and about Putin, he's a pretty dam succesfull leader as far as i know, and freinds with most of the world leaders (that's no small statement in his favor).

President of Finland (current "leader" of EU) Tarja Halonen (who btw looks like Conan O'Brien) Has asked Russia and Georgia to continue negotiations, but she did not say that the Russian pressuring actions were wrong or illegal. She allso stated that EU is available as a mediator if both sides want one.
The issue between Georgia and Russia will be discussed in two weeks at the EU-Russian summit in Lahti, Finland

Originally posted by maestro45
Russia wasn't involved in the "assasintation attempts" in ukraine.

How do you know this?

Yushenko (anti-russian) had plastic surgery to make him look younger. after the operation he was in a sauna and drank vodka which trigered bad sidefects after his surgery.

Do you have a source or something to back that up? I did a Google search for Yushchenko and came up with nothing, other than the 'poison' stuff.

I'd know this, I live in kiev.

Ok, so it must be true

Maestro
Sauna and Vodka never hurt anyone, trust me i'm Finnish
No way in hell that those were accidents, jus too many coincidents...

Originally posted by northwolf
Maestro
Sauna and Vodka never hurt anyone, trust me i'm Finnish
No way in hell that those were accidents, jus too many coincidents...

There is absolutely no proof that Yuschenko was poisoned or that Russia was after him in any way. Several independent doctors have conducted investigations, and none of them discovered any remote evidence that he was poisoned. There are many theories, including the one mentioned here (plastic surgery), and so far none of them are certain. But saying outright that Russia tried to assassinate him, is nothing more than jumping to unproven conclusions. For all we know he could have tripped and fell on his face into a BBQ Grill.

And by the way- don't think that if FSB wanted to "get rid of him", they would have? How could such a professional agency have such an embarassing mishap? There are 1000 way to assassinate somebody, and they tried some untested poison that has causes different effects in different individuals? And why choose a poison that only affected his face, and not his organs? Russia used poison for assassinations previously, including the deadly substance in the food that killed Khattab- a Chechen rebel leader. So why not use something they were familiar with. Please...


For those of you who don't realize it- the whole story about poisoning was one of the reasons Yuschenko got elected. He gained from it (whatever it was) more than he could ever hope for. The people bought his sob story- and voted for him. And suddenly after the election, his face all but cleared up. So don't jump to conclusions about any assassinations.

This may be a bit too late, but:

It was said by Georgia that the officers set up a spying network 2 years ago, while they have been in Georgia only 2-3 months.
They have also shown footage, which was supposedly a "coded" conversion. If not the opposite of that accusation, it, at least, cant be used as proof as there is nothing in their speech that suggests anything other than what they were talking about.
As well as having a lack of any significant evidence, the officers were given no phone call, an awful translator (as the officers later stated themselves in an interview: they didnt even know what they were being accused of), their advocate presented no defense, the court took place in some old building etc.

As some here have already suggested - America helped this conflict arise.

Ok, if these guys were not spying, then they weren't doing their job. Since being an intelligence officer stationed at a foreign country equals to the fact that they gather intelligence = spy...
But the fact that this kind of an activity is not usually concidered illegal since everyone does it, military attaches do it all the time, leads me to belive that for some reason Tbilisi has decided to up the conlict.

Originally posted by northwolf
Ok, if these guys were not spying, then they weren't doing their job. Since being an intelligence officer stationed at a foreign country equals to the fact that they gather intelligence = spy...
But the fact that this kind of an activity is not usually concidered illegal since everyone does it, military attaches do it all the time, leads me to belive that for some reason Tbilisi has decided to up the conlict.

Certainly they were spying- assuming they were intellegence officers and not regular military personel, which is still unclear. And as you said this is not a reason to make international news since it takes place so often everywhere. Similar situation happened about a year ago, when a British (I think it was British) intelligence official got caught in Russia with some spying device or something of that matter. The more curious part- was that so many people paid attention to it.

But I think the arrest of the Russians was more than spying or whatever else is being reported. We are only getting a small fraction of all news from the region, and obviously both government know more than the people. There are thousands of Russian personel in Georgia, and why arrest those 4? This is not the first time Russians and Georgians get into a contention, but its a first time one got this serious.

There is now complete shut down off all means of communication and transportation between Georgia and Russia. I see an invisible wall being constructed there. Also- Georgian defense ministry website is now only available in English and Georgian, and all the news there seem to be about joining NATO. Since when is English second language in Georgia? Can't wait untill nest election time there, thats assuming there is going an election.

[edit on 5-10-2006 by maloy]

I have satelite TV and I get Russian 1st Channel. Always watch it at 9 and 12pm (Moscow Time)

What they are telling us is that the incident occured near the time of the elections. One of the reasons for this incident is to get the Georgian people to distrust a pro-russian president. As you have read already on the Georgian website, someone wants Georgia allied with the west, not the east.
Another would be that the Americans have planned something of this sort: enflame the conflict between Georgia and Russia, get Russia to retaliate with force, stick their nose into other people's business and solve the conflict to their favour. Basicly - provocate Russia to make the wrong move. They're smart, but we showed them class.

As you all probably know, America is trying to encircle Russia with pro-American countries, which were formerly in USSR. It's all a big politics game. I wouldn't worry about Russia though - we have a good president for the next 2 years. I didn't support him at the start, but he won my respect and trust with his actions.


A news update on the conflict:
- Police in Russia have been investigating Georgian people inside the country. About 300 people were deported, a few gang leaders caught, a few casino/business owners who had a bad record of law abiding were investigated and brought to court.

This kind of check should've been done ages ago. But nevertheless, I'm proud.

Originally posted by Alex Dude
A news update on the conflict:
- Police in Russia have been investigating Georgian people inside the country. About 300 people were deported, a few gang leaders caught, a few casino/business owners who had a bad record of law abiding were investigated and brought to court.

This kind of check should've been done ages ago. But nevertheless, I'm proud.

Not to mention the encirclement of Russia by semi-NATO states, US can now be thanked for new ethnical conflicts in Russia. It is disgusting what is happening between Russia and Ukraine/Georgia. Nationalists on both sides are propagating ethnical hatered of the other. This would have never happened before the fall of communism. Never in history have Ukrainians hated Russians or otherwise untill now. Detainment of Georgians is not a good thing. It only separates the two sides even further. I am certain that some of those detained did not deserve to be. Whats next- attacks on Russia minorities in Ukraine and on Ukrainian minority in Russia? I can see that happening if things go this way.

The Georgians need to take it upon themselves as well though. They see that their government is not under their control, and that their nation is being remotely controlled from the White House and Pentagon. They need to overthrow Saakashvili before the madman drives their country into the ground. Same with Ukraine. Yuschenko is nothing but a clown and a fake. He is not the president there, the decisions are made FOR HIM. Where is the counter-color revolutionary spirit now?

Originally posted by darksided
That is rich, its all Americas fault!

It amazes me this doesn't trouble Russians, this policy appears to have a lot in common with the Nuremburg Laws. Business owners are suddenly part of organized crime? Looks like Georgians are the new Jews in Russia.

You get these conclusions from where? Western media (and a very biased source I might add- judging by that website)? Same propaganda as Mosnews- you can read it to fuel your already existant prejudices, but it won't make you understand the problem better.

Western media indeed usually reports true news. However the way it is presented, and the limited news that are presented make it incredibly biased (especially in the US).

You hear on the news about how the evil Russians are rounding up Georgian masses. 100 might seem like alot of people- if you live in a country thats the size of an apartment block. There are millions of Georgians in Russia. Few hundred that were rounded up had some offenses, and the conflict pushed Russia to take action against certain individuals. You also hear on the news about how the evil Russia is threatening to attack the peaceful and prospering Georgian democracy, and the US is nothing more than a good samaritan mediator- HONESTLY WHO STILL BELIEVES THIS ****?

Tell me- where does this American media of yours report on the CIA budget which is allocated to Saakashvili and his thugs? Its billions of dollars mind you- but since CNN doesn't report it I guess it doesn't exist. Where does the American free media tell you about how the Georgians massacred civilians in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and are ready to do it again with American help? Where does this media tell you the history of the conflict and all sides involved- so you can actually comprehend it better. NO WHERE. You media is like a kindergarten teacher- it tells you who is evil, who is good- and leaves it up to you to wave the American flag.


American and other Western media are next to completely useless. Yes they throw some facts at you. They tell you about how evil somebody is and how many supposed nukes they got hidden in their basement. But these news are always one-sided. They praise American allies, and degrade your enemies. They tell you only one side of the story, and pretend the other side does not exist (look at the coverage of the illegal NATO invasion of Yugoslavia). Presenting only one side of the story- is like outright lying. Whats the use, if it is not going to enable you to form better comprehension of the entire event.

But of course, US media is not alone at doing that. Every country spins the news to paint themselves in a better light. Russia does it. So does China. However the problem with the US media- is their outright pretentiousness. They call themselves the "Free Press". They pretend to set the model for the rest of the world. They accuse others of having biased news and propaganda media. But it is no better. And this conflict just goes further to prove it.

US did fund Saakashvili. US armed him at the expense of US tax payers. US has alot to gain from a war in the Caucasus. US is surrounding Russia by puppet states of the future NATO. US is waging the WTO not to destroy the terrorists, but to increase their influence around the world. But you are not gonna hear about it on CNN, or FOX, and media-conglomerate-owned or political-party websites. So reading the news from one point of view, and interpreting it from one point of view, is bias, and will not solve any conflicts whatsoever.

"You have voted maloy for the Way Above Top Secret award. "
Perfect analysis of the American Media...
Out here the news about Russia are a lot more unbiased and our news outlets allso cover a wider range of stories than most other Western medias.
Hell living 20km from Russian border i get to hear a lot of first hand info about what's going on there.

Maloy, correct me i'm wrong but isn't a lot of the smuggling going on in western Russia organised by Georgian "gangs"? (This is what i heard few years ago)
There have allso been cases of Georgians trafficin illegal immigrants into EU.


[edit on 7-10-2006 by northwolf]

"You have voted maloy for the Way Above Top Secret award. "
Very Well Done.

If you want to get a better picture of world events, either read the news from the opposing sides or read the news from a neutral country (that is, if you know the language it's written in) and analyse the information you get.