Patriot Act Approved! House approved the measure 257-171.

WestPoint - Please quote the vow you took upon entering the Point. Is your primary duty to the Constitution and The Republic...or to your Chain of Command and nascent Empire?

Centurion - Please show the meaning of SPQR, and how it became a sick parody under the Ceasars.

Ed S. - Kings and bears often worry their keepers - Benjamin Franklin.
You may wish to do a search on the word 'gleichshaltung' via the web...the concept would highlight very well where concentration of power in the Executive and Military lead, regardless of the pretext.

Just a few thoughts to ponder. Have a great weekend.

WestPoint - Please quote the vow you took upon entering the Point. Is your primary duty to the Constitution and The Republic...or to your Chain of Command and nascent Empire?

He's just a kid, FYI.

The point you brought up regarding concentrations of power is salient. I hope people take the time to educate themselves regarding the lessons of history.

When you've been down the same road hundreds of times and know where the potholes lurk, having people call you crazy for warning them of the danger tends to make you wish broken axles upon them. At least, that's my experience.

Maybe I'm just bitter because the majority of American citizens aren't earning that title, they're simply receiving it at birth.

Originally posted by awshucksme

Just another couple thoughts to ponder. Have a great weekend.

awshucksme - please quote how the British approach of allowing the muslim clerics there to continuously preach radical hate against the British under the right of free speech contributed to the deaths of over 50 people and injuries to almost 1,000 others. Remember free speech does have limits. You cannot, for example, falsely yell "fire!" in a crowded theater resulting in a panic that kills and injures people. In the same way, you cannot continously preach "kill the infidels" resulting in bombings that kill and injure people.

awshucksme - please comment on how all the cameras "spying" on the people of London have contributed to finding and bringing the people responsible for the bombings to justice.



Remember, it was the liberal democratic president Franklin Roosevelt that also did what he felt was necessary to lessen the threat from Japanese, Germans and Italians (only the Japanese got reparations, though) living in the U.S. during a previous war. Anybody calling FDR a fascist or nazi?

No, of course not.




[edit on 7/22/2005 by centurion1211]

Sorry, but you are O/T.

Please answer the question as posited...then I will of course be happy to answer your questions (I work on it even as we 'speak').

This is how intelligent, polite, and educated discussion occurs...and its a bare minimum to expect.

Maybe I'm just bitter because the majority of American citizens aren't earning that title, they're simply receiving it at birth.

Wyrde...we are not National Socialists or ancient Romans, so we do not need to earn any 'title'. But, I get where you are coming from. I would rather there were more people looking back to see ahead...but those forgetting the past are doomed....yada yada yada

Thank you for the good news, Ed. I will now be able to sleep at night. I was quite worried there for awhile that we the people would not be protected by our great government.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? Hard to tell in this format...

I love protection. Iwant to be protected from all the harm in this evil world.


I am not being sarcastic

Originally posted by dgtempe
Thank you for the good news, Ed. I will now be able to sleep at night. I was quite worried there for awhile that we the people would not be protected by our great government.

And just how safe would you feel if they did nothing?

Well, i guess i could protect myself as i have done for many years. But times have changed,

Love and Light to you.

DG

Originally posted by dgtempe
Well, i guess i could protect myself as i have done for many years. But times have changed,

Love and Light to you.

DG

I take it your not near a potential target then, but for those in the big cities, something needed to be done.

Have a good weekend

Keep spreading the fear...fear makes 'em easier to control.

Originally posted by awshucksme
Keep spreading the fear...fear makes 'em easier to control.

There is a difference between fear and prudence.

Prudence would dictate a ready supply of powder, so as to once again bind Gov't tightly to the Constitution...

Not chasing phantoms designed to control the population through fear and have them accept ever greater forms of tyranny.

As many people have pointed out I don't know anyone that has been affected by the patriot act. By their reasoning I shouldn't care.

By that same reasoning I shouldn't care about terrorism either. It has never once directly effected me. (Yes I live in the US.) I didnt know anyone in New York, nor did the economic aftershock effect me. By your reasoning I shouldn't care.

Thing is I do care about both. What happens here, and across the world will effect my future, my children's future and every generation afterwards. Wheter the patriot act has ever once been used against a US citizen is not at issue. That it CAN be used against a US citizen is. That it directly ignores our constitution which our very existence as a nation, super power, and world leader depends upon is. Our forefathers were very direct in saying that every US citizen has a DUTY to protect that consitution. They were also very direct in stating that to protect our future we have the DUTY to tear down and abolish any goverment or laws which whatsoever could hamper our freedoms.

As for the camera's in Britian catching the criminals. I'll just say this.

I would rather loose everything I have, everyone I know, suffer torture, or die before loosing ONE freedom. FREEDOM and LIBERTY is the entire basis and reason this country exists. Without it we are nothing.

Originally posted by awshucksmeNot chasing phantoms designed to control the population through fear and have them accept ever greater forms of tyranny.

And that is where we differ, you think the US is behind all this # - I don't, I think that Osama and those like him are.

As a veteran I also support our troops in the task they are to do, not to sit back and wish for them to loose and help thine enemy.

Originally posted by awshucksme
Sorry, but you are O/T.

You want me to translate SPQR (senatus populesque romanum - senate and people of Rome) and you say I'm off topic? We have no caesar in the U.S., not even close - no matter what your paranoid delusions tell you.

My questions to you were actually much more relevant to the topic.

So, I'm waiting for your relevant answers ...

Originally posted by Xerrog
As many people have pointed out I don't know anyone that has been affected by the patriot act. By their reasoning I shouldn't care.

By that same reasoning I shouldn't care about terrorism either. It has never once directly effected me. (Yes I live in the US.) I didnt know anyone in New York, nor did the economic aftershock effect me. By your reasoning I shouldn't care.

Thing is I do care about both. What happens here, and across the world will effect my future, my children's future and every generation afterwards. Wheter the patriot act has ever once been used against a US citizen is not at issue. That it CAN be used against a US citizen is. That it directly ignores our constitution which our very existence as a nation, super power, and world leader depends upon is. Our forefathers were very direct in saying that every US citizen has a DUTY to protect that consitution. They were also very direct in stating that to protect our future we have the DUTY to tear down and abolish any goverment or laws which whatsoever could hamper our freedoms.

As for the camera's in Britian catching the criminals. I'll just say this.

I would rather loose everything I have, everyone I know, suffer torture, or die before loosing ONE freedom. FREEDOM and LIBERTY is the entire basis and reason this country exists. Without it we are nothing.

This was so good i think everybody should read it again. I had to give it the vote as well.

Comes down to priorities. your hide or your freedom and a lot of other wise well intended individuals seem all too happy to give up the freedoms and the freedoms of others to protect their hides. sickening shame.

Right, there was one terrorist attack. I have serious doubts of the official story, but that's neither here nor there, I'll play along. Let's say those 19 terrorists really did outsmart the most advanced country in the world by using box cutters and hijacked those planes and flew them into the WTC and Pentagon. It was one terrorist attack in New York City, yet we're so quick to support the Patriot Act for the entire country? I live in Texas, so New York City could of just as well be the other side of the world to me, it's no where NEAR me, thousands of miles. What happens when there's 2 or 3 more terrorists attacks, even though they STILL probably don't take place near where I am, all the sudden we're a POLICE STATE. Random searches, show your IDs everywhere you go. Yet I've still had no terrorists attacks even within one thousand miles of where I live.

We're buying into this propaganda, one terrorist attack, as sad as it was, should not destroy our constitution. If your own personal rights have been effected up until this point or not is a MOOT point. They may in the future, and it will be your own fault for supporting the Government's propaganda. I mean what are the limits? Lock us in cages so terrorists can't get to us? For the United States to remain free we must keep freedom before security, always.



[edit on 23-7-2005 by NoJustice]

Originally posted by NoJusticeWe're buying into this propaganda, one terrorist attack, as sad as it was, should not destroy our constitution. If your own personal rights have been effected up until this point or not is a MOOT point. They may in the future, and it will be your own fault for supporting the Government's propaganda. I mean what are the limits? Lock us in cages so terrorists can't get to us? For the United States to remain free we must keep freedom before security, always.

I think your right, you have changed my mind. Lets let anyone do anything they want, come and go as they please, communicate however they choose, plan without scrutiny.

Yup, this way we can all have our total freedoms until death.


And that just might not come to you, but your neighbor.....your relatives...your countrymen.



To hell with fighting these bastards, I would rather die than give up any liberty, I want to be able to walk unto a bus station in July wearing a bulging topcoat. To hell with searching me as you would be violating my rights to do as I please.


The PA did not take your right to own guns now did it. Think about that one a minute. To start calling this a police state is ignorant. Even before the PA I could not go into the street and take a piss in front of everyone. Why? Isn't it my right to do as I please as long as it doesn't harm anyone?

This reminds me of the good ol moral "If it feels good, do it!"