Patriot Act Approved! House approved the measure 257-171.

Just received word that the patriot act was approved by the House.

House votes to extend Patriot Act
Body approves measure overwhelmingly; Dems voice civil liberties concerns


BREAKING NEWS
Updated: 10:04 p.m. ET July 21, 2005

WASHINGTON - The House voted overwhelmingly Thursday to extend the USA Patriot Act, the nation’s main anti-terrorism tool, just hours after televisions in the Capitol beamed images of a new attack in London.

As similar legislation worked its way through the Senate, House Republicans generally cast the law as a valuable asset in the war on terrorism. Most Democrats echoed that support but said they were concerned the law could allow citizens’ civil liberties to be infringed. Following more than nine hours of debate, the House approved the measure 257-171.

The bulk of the back-and-forth centered on language making permanent 14 of 16 provisions that had four-year sunset, or expiration, provisions under the original law, which Congress passed overwhelmingly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.


LINK

Only thing I am worried about is the 10 years, I feel that is too much..

[edit on 21-7-2005 by edsinger]

confirmed
www.chron.com...

no hestitation or questions, especially since the recent incidents in London, we need to be protected.

Shouldnt this be on ATSNN??

This is kinda to important to be sitting in current events..

Cause this deal sucks for americans..

Welcome to 1984 people..

All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.”
Marbury vs. Madison 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)

Comment: Yes however the contravailing opinion which was one instance where President Andrew Jackson enforced "the trail of tears."

The Cherokee were not savages. By 1830 they had a government, a written language, schools, and churches. But President Andrew Jackson, acting on behalf of the state of Georgia, wanted their land, and demanded their removal. When the Supreme Court ruled in Worcester vs. Georgia that he had no right to do this, he is said to have replied, "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."

Now Let Him Enforce It

Comment: Now if we are to realize when powers of law have ruled on behalf of humanitarian concerns, matters of human rights, and in a morally upright manner, many times governments do not go along. In this instance it is not a court that is involved, it is a court of public opinion viewing all of this with open examination of a law which invites lawlessness from the government.

It is therefore incumbent upon all public servants who are acting in matters of discretionary enforcement, to follow the Constitution first, not the so called Patriot Act. If it is a matter of professional survival, go ahead and follow it, but remember how very wrong you are both morally, and legally.

Regarding the Patriot Act, and also impropriety with so called legal sanction to torture, it is not the Constitution that is "quaint," and "outdated," it is the retrogression to a primative state in the actions of government that is at issue. I cannot think of any government action or law more in the wrong in every respect than this so called Patriot Act, which is in its face complete treason.

The direction and flow in this act is so retrograde that it exceeds any anachronism, it is an invitation to chaos from the government which is supposed to create "order," from the public. May such things return to the ash heap of history forever.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by SkipShipman]

I am starting to think thats why London was attacked on 7/7.

Problem = Bombing of London. (Since we had 9/11 this will bring up bad memories.)
(((As it was stated that they were watching the london bombings on TV while this vote was going on.)))

Reaction = Scaring people into what they want. (Remember after 9/11 they did the same exact thing to pass PA I.)

Solution = This was how they get PA II Signed over real easy. ( Cause and attack to get this passed thru.)

We all know that this was turned down before and suppost to be revised. I am wondering if it has yet been revised cause of alot of civil liberties being violated.... But I guess since this went down we will see what happens..

This is very disturbing considering how unconstitutional the Patriot Act is and basic human rights it violates. How far does one go for safety and security?

As Benjamin Franklin said so long ago, "Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty."

[edit on 7/21/2005 by Forgiven]

The false paradigm of left vs right has the majority of the sheople incapacitated with finger pointing and meaningless diatribe...while PII and internal passports advance without check.

It is unfortunate, since I came to this country (USA) from another with a deep tradition of English Common Law, to see it degenerate so quickly. These tactics of tribunal and govt. telling the people what do to took hold under Trudeau in 'the great white north'. Incrementalism over 30+ years took care of the rest.

Take heart, as a general populace that is both well educated and well armed will set things to rights. Tyrants, criminals, and fools will neither respect nor listen until someone pushes back...and given the troubles a few hundred thousand untrained militia in Iraq are giving the boys the Pentagon must be loosing sleep over how to implement 'garden plot' when the time comes.

I did not come to this country to secure the blessings of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness to stand idle in the face of Tyrrany. I suspect you feel similarly.

G-d Bless

I can't believe Republicans are now supporting more government in peoples' lives. What happened to my party I have no idea, but I guess I'm a confirmed independent now.

Hearing this news, I feel like all the time I spent in the military for this country was an absolute waste.

It's depressing news. I think I'll go on another no-news binge for awhile now to feel better.

Your party and the 'other' one realize that they need to do something to stop what they can, these fanatics use our own freedoms against us.

Originally posted by edsinger
Your party and the 'other' one realize that they need to do something to stop what they can, these fanatics use our own freedoms against us.

Well, if that is your justification for the provisions provided under the Patriot Act, maybe you care to explain how they are using our freedoms against us.

Originally posted by edsinger
Your party and the 'other' one realize that they need to do something to stop what they can, these fanatics use our own freedoms against us.

Will you still being the same thing when you're in a gulag?

How did that old saying go? Something like this:
When they came for the Jews, I said nothing because I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for the blacks, I said nothing because I wasn't black.
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

Edsinger
You were afraid of your own Freedom being used as a weapon against you? That doesn't jive with my logic routine. Maybe you can explain?

The creation of this monolithic security apparatus was one of the worst government mistakes this country every tolerated.

People were manipulated, and are still being manipulated. They are being manhandled by their servants.

It's frankly disgusting to behold. What's going on in New York is patently offensive, and it looks like Roe vs. Wade's decision was just a fleeting memory of civlization.

You can thank the gullibility of the religious and the greed of politicians. America bought a one-way ticket to the dark ages, and now we're opening peanuts and paying for headphones, already wheels-up.

Silly and pointless to debate, actually. Americans took their freedom for granted, and they lost it. Case closed.

i feel sorry fo those who live in the usa.gone to the dark side.patriot act 2 will box in people with finger pointing with each other and mistrust sad shame.no freedom of speech. the media will be misleading and so will its leaders.i can tell you this no one will be able to understand the other with this type of guilty before facts.this needs to be throw out.better laws better leadership needed.im sure other countries will not fly very well either.i think this is some idea used in the ussr and failed badly.without public trust there is no flow of freedom.i guess will see how usa comes about from the old ideas.history books are open and the pencil writes the spoken word is once again dead and fear the king in the castle...

Originally posted by edsinger
Your party and the 'other' one realize that they need to do something to stop what they can, these fanatics use our own freedoms against us.

We had thousands of nuclear weapons on hair trigger one side aimed at the other, and we did not need a Patriot Act that made us look like Stalinist Russia. Wide open borders are still a problem, but your government needs to shake down grandmas at the airport? If that is the "something," we need to do, then your logic is pure horsefeathers.

I do not know what planet people government believers have been on, but the overwhelming majority of people have been supplied convincing proofs of something very fishy about the governmental story of 911. "Those fanatics," just happen to be most anyone but those accused. Right now I am happy that I never flew a Chinese slave labor facsimile US flag after 911, although when it was not popularized I surely did display an American Made one that flew over the Capitol. Our government, yours and mine has more holes in its reality than swiss cheese on every issue from corporate money, to depleted uranium, to fluoride, to aspartame, and now to the Codex Alimentarius. We need less freedom right now, like we need a hole in the head, but the so called Patriot Act does less than nothing on the freedom score..

Even if those "fanatics," are doing what you say they are doing, we do not have to destroy the very foundations of this country to take care of these mosquitos. As bad as 911 was, it is no reason, even if truly described by our mainstream press and government, to assume useless legal tools. Yes they are useless because they are unnecessary for any purpose to achieve the same results by Constitutional means. The so called Patriot Act is nothing more than a make work act for the a burgeoning law enforcement jungle, giving color of law to what has been illegal on the part of government for more than 220 years.

[edit on 22-7-2005 by SkipShipman]

What happened to the democrats on this?

I can't believe that we are reliving history. When Hitler came to power, he wanted more power and more control...so what did he do? He burned down Germany's Capital Building and blamed it on the Russians. Then he declared a state of emergency and under those provisions became Fuhrer of Germany.


This is exactly what is happening now. Do you really think that the Patriot Act is being used to catch Terrorists? The Democrats and the American People had a problem accepting this bill. Then a couple of little bombs go off in London, and the republicans say to the Dems...if something happens in America and YOU didn't pass this bill, You will never be re-elected again. And the Dems folded like a cheap suit.

I thought that Bush said we were fighting the war in IRAQ so that we didn't have to fight terrorists here in America...so then why do we even need this law is that is true?

This is such B/S. This law opens the door to a complete violation of individual civil rights.

And if you don't think they will use this against average citicens, then explain to me why the definition of a terrorist is so general and could apply to anyone.


I used to be a Republican. Today i am a Conservative Libertarian.

I will repeat what I said in another post.

When 9/11 happened, we were told that the people who did this did so because they hate our freedom. Now they're passing laws that will allow corrupt politicians and law enforcement officials to restrict our freedom rather severely. Are we not doing exactly what we were told they wanted?

Can someone please explain to me the logic and wisdom of this path we've decided to take?

Originally posted by Forgiven
This is very disturbing considering how unconstitutional the Patriot Act is and basic human rights it violates. How far does one go for safety and security?

As Benjamin Franklin said so long ago, "Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty."

[edit on 7/21/2005 by Forgiven]

Exactly what rights have you lost due to the Patriot Act? Come on, list them for all of us.

Bush Sees London Attack as Reason for Patriot Act

"As we saw in London, the terrorists are still active and they are still plotting to take innocent life," Mr. Bush told law-enforcement officers in Baltimore. "So my message to the Congress is clear: This is no time to let our guard down, and no time to roll back good laws."

Oh, how terribly conveeeenient!

Originally posted by centurion1211
Exactly what rights have you lost due to the Patriot Act? Come on, list them for all of us.

I am not only concerned about myself and my rights. I'm concerned about the rights of ALL my fellow countrymen. If I were so selfish to only be concerned about ME and MY rights, then it wouldn't bother me (so much). But part of being an American to ME is to care for and stand up and fight for my fellow man.

I understand some may not really grasp this concept.

Oh no my civil liberties are being trampled upon! Wait I cant think of one instance where my rights have been denied or violated, strange don't you think?

Oh your concerned about you fellow Americas how sweet, maybe the fact that you cant list me more than few people who have had their rights legitimately violated under the patriot act speaks volumes.

[edit on 22-7-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Oh no my civil liberties are being trampled upon! Wait I cant think of one instance where my rights have been denied or violated, strange don't you think?

Well, you and your cohorts seem incredibly short-sighted and clearly lack the ability to see the consequences of certain events for the future. Even up until now, there have been multiple cases of injustice in America due to the Patriot Act. In addition, librarians recently got done suing the FBI over the Patriot Act. It's obvious the Patriot Act not only has unjust implications for the present. And for those of us who have the foresight to prepare for the future, the doors left open for wickedness by the Patriot Act invokes people to outrage.