Originally posted by BlueRaja
With regard to the ALR 94, I wasn't referring to IR emissions, but rather things such EM/RF emissions(i.e. radio traffic, datalinks, etc..). If the threat aircraft emits anything, they're gonna get DF'd.

Yes, I know.

That is why I have been stressing if the other guy makes NO noise, the -94 has NOTHING to detect. Brilliant as it is, nothing is still nothing.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
Do you have some test analysis as to the effectiveness or lack thereof for the LPI capabilities of the APG 77? F-22s have flown against very sophisticated western aircraft, and they haven't detected the emissions.

The F-22 has only flown against 4th generation American aircraft as far as I am aware.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
I think LPI needs to be looked at like VLO capabilities. It's not invisible, but the amount of reaction time an opponent has against it is greatly diminished, giving the Raptor an advantage.

I disagree. Systems like Pirate and the AN/ALR-94 will easily detect any LPI radar IMO - be it European, American or Russian in origin.

Yes, I know.

That is why I have been stressing if the other guy makes NO noise, the -94 has NOTHING to detect. Brilliant as it is, nothing is still nothing.

That would mean that the opponent would be flying extremely myopically, with regards to situational awareness though.

The F-22 has only flown against 4th generation American aircraft as far as I am aware.

These aircraft still have very advanced avionics, and RWR gear, even if the airframes aren't the current state of the art.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
I think LPI needs to be looked at like VLO capabilities. It's not invisible, but the amount of reaction time an opponent has against it is greatly diminished, giving the Raptor an advantage.

I disagree. Systems like Pirate and the AN/ALR-94 will easily detect any LPI radar IMO - be it European, American or Russian in origin.

This remains to be seen. If LPI radar was of no use over standard radar, it wouldn't be much of a selling point.

Blue Raja I would not even bother arguing anymore, clearly some members here have special knowledge and secret access to technical information regarding the APG-77, ALR-94, RWR, PIRATE etc… or any other system they want to pull out of their behind. Real world results, logic, physic, likely scenarios, and all the technical data online mean squat in comparison to sarcastic assumptions and illogical questions.

[edit on 21-2-2008 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by BlueRaja
That would mean that the opponent would be flying extremely myopically, with regards to situational awareness though.

Indeed. Hence why I'm banging on about the IRST as an extremely useful passive tool for providing a measure of undetected SA in stand alone environments.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
These aircraft still have very advanced avionics, and RWR gear, even if the airframes aren't the current state of the art.

True, they have received updates, however, I am not prepared to put them on a level of the ALR-94, the PIRATE and Spectra.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
This remains to be seen. If LPI radar was of no use over standard radar, it wouldn't be much of a selling point.

Oh it definitely is useful... when fighting 4th gen technology.

Originally posted by kilcoo316

Originally posted by BlueRaja
This remains to be seen. If LPI radar was of no use over standard radar, it wouldn't be much of a selling point.

Oh it definitely is useful... when fighting 4th gen technology.

The Raptor wasn't just designed to be effective against 4th Generation aircraft though. The Russians have yet to field 5th Generation aircraft or avionics.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Blue Raja I would not even bother arguing anymore, clearly some members here have special knowledge and secret access to technical information regarding the APG-77, ALR-94, RWR, PIRATE etc… or any other system they want to pull out of their behind.

Whereas you do have access to said information to formulate your opinion?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Real world results, logic, physic, likely scenarios, and all the technical data online mean squat in comparison to sarcastic assumptions and illogical questions.

What independent real world results do you point to? The opinion of the USAF? (The same USAF that are desperate for new airframes, so will hype the F-22 as much as possible)


Physics? The same laws of physics that guarantee a long wavelength radar will detect an F-22, a B-2, an F-117 or an F-35?


Logic? The logic that the F-22 may (hopefully not of course) have to face enemies stronger than Serbia or Iraq?


Likely scenarios? I have pointed out quite clearly, in the instance of two aircraft, one being the F-22, the other the hypothetical PAK-FA operating stand-alone without radar support, IF the PAK-FA has an IRST, it should be at an advantage. Sorry if that bursts your little bubble that USA = No. 1 in EVERYTHING, but that is just the way it is.





Do you think the AN/ALR-94 is capable of detecting the APG-77 at useful ranges? Of course you do.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
The Raptor wasn't just designed to be effective against 4th Generation aircraft though. The Russians have yet to field 5th Generation aircraft or avionics.

Indeed you are correct. The Russian Air Force are yet to operationally field alot of kit that the USAF has had for some time.


Yet, the Su-35 is under testing right now, and the MiG-35 has been kicking around the Indian fighter comp for a year or two now.



To turn the some of the logic used earlier in this thread right around - how can the F-22 be designed to beat future technology?

Originally posted by kilcoo316
To turn the some of the logic used earlier in this thread right around - how can the F-22 be designed to beat future technology?

And thats the whole blind spot with this thread. Nobody know for sure.