I'm guessing Russia will buy about 3 of them.

If its on export (i expect it to be) China which is weary of the US may buy hundreds ....India too may take a few.... not to mention the huge markets of Russian weaponty.... and it will most surely have a price tag that is a fraction of the Raptor's

Yea, we'll see...

Am I the only one that wonders how they can claim it will be the Raptors equal?

All they know is that it can cruise over Mach 1 and it is stealthy. How in the world can they be taken seriously when they say they can produce a plane that will match the Raptor in every aspect?!

They don't even know half of what the Raptor can do.

This is Russian bravado at it's finest. It will take 10 years to develope an aircraft which will not be as good as the Raptor. Even more likely they scrap it after spending billions on it because they realise that UCAVs are the wave of the future.

Silly Russians

The aircraft being spoken of is currently classified as the Sukhoi 40.
MiG is also working on something, as well.

And anything that Russia builds is "available" for export.



seekerof

How come barely anyone can believe that the Russians can equal an F/A 22
I think they can, theve done it before. Mig-21, Mig-29, Su-37 for example...
Good on them, might stop all the American members boasting that they have the "Raptor"

Probably for the mere factoid that the Russians have not serial produced anything remotely comparable to the Raptor. Quite frankly, the Russians cannot and have not built anything "equal" to the Raptor. The PAK-FA is more comparable to the F-35. The MiG 1.42/44 testbed/prototype is sitting in a hanger somewhere in mother Russia collecting bird droppings, and is nothing comparable to the Raptor. Both the above aircraft have had claims made about them being this and that, but till they are built and serial produced, as the Raptor, those claims are simply unfounded claims. Anyhow, by the time that the Russians build something comparable to the Raptor, the Raptor will have evolved beyond what the Russians originally built it to go against. Hence, they will hardly have anything to "equal" it.

The Raptor can be overhyped by some members, and for good reason.
Some of us tend to be a little more reserved, but be assured, the Raptor is not to be underestimated in any way, shape, or form.





seekerof

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Seekerof]

How many projects do the Russians have? They keep saying every year we have this new aircraft; they must have like 3 projects trying to make an equal to the Raptor. But yet year after year it’s the same talk yet how many 5 Generation fighters do they have? Yup a big goose egg.

Equal to an F-22 you say? Well we'll see. Some US Technologies have never been matched by the Russians (or anyone else for the matter). The best Example is the B-2. Noone outside of the USA have ever design an aircraft with the abilities if the the B-2 Spirit. But then again, Bombers are much more sophisticated in many ways than Fighters.

Tim

Yawn................

Jetsetter is probably right, but y'know what, i'm willing to take the bet that none will get built, besides, they don't have the money to match the technology.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Hockeyguy567]

Russia is getting economically better quite fast. While they cant put as much money into the millitairy like they could back then in soviet times they can do stuff again. Russia is also quite cheaper than the us so it will cost less in comparison.

There is no reason why russia wont be able to match the US. As long as they have good designers and scientists it can happen. It isnt like what was invented for the F22 that they suddenly cant.

The simple fact is, to make a stealth aircraft comparable to the Raptor is going to cost money. Money they don't have. There is no way to make an aircraft comparable to the Raptor that is cheap. The materials and techniques along with the R&D needed to build such an aircraft simply prohibit it from being much cheaper then the Raptor.

So the Russians have a delema even if they do make the aircraft. If the US, with a multi TRILLION dollar economy, and a military budget which equals the next 25 or 30 countries behind it, can only afford 150 or 200 Raptors, how many will Russia, China, and India be able to afford between them?

50? 60?

And in such small numbers, wouldn't that just make the aircraft MORE expensive?

No - this aircraft will not equal the Raptor. Economics prevent it.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Russia have the resources and the potential to build this plane that they speak of (& you guys make fun of).

However the funding for such an ambitious project is a concern. However Russia is the world's 2nd largest spender on defence and spends over 60 billion $ anually; true it may be no match for the US's 400+billion $ budget, but most of that has gone into funding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc ... so i wont be very surprised if i happen to learn that Russia spends the same amount (or only a little less) as the US on defence R&D. And Russia have been trimming their huge air force, army & navy of late making it a "lean-mean" outfit....thus reducing the spending on salaries, maintainence,etc And they have been having great sales of their weaponry of late to China, India, middle east, etc.

And moreover it appears that the PAK-FA is almost ready...so obviously they have done all their work on stealth & related technologies and it might not take a lot to build a larger and improved version of this to take on the Raptor.

And moreover i assume that Russia builds these primarily for export and less for inducting it in large numbers into its own air force....and there is no dearth of potential customers..China, Iran, Sirya, NK etc are all potential US tagrets and may have to face the F/A-22 ... so they might be very intrested....it may even sell more than the number of Raptors (180)..and most surely it will cost far less than the F/A-22

Your views on this ...??

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

How is the PAK-FA almost ready? Do they even have a prototype, have they even made a first flight?

Originally posted by jonesey_dude
How come barely anyone can believe that the Russians can equal an F/A 22
I think they can, theve done it before. Mig-21, Mig-29, Su-37 for example...
Good on them, might stop all the American members boasting that they have the "Raptor"

Mig-29 is a piece of crap, hardly anyone buys them anymore.

Why would any country producing an equivalent to the Raptor stop Americans from boasting about the F-22? It's still a good fighter. When we created the F-15 and the Russians had the MiG-25 did that stop us from boasting about the Eagle? The Russians bragged about their Foxbat just as much. Both air forces are impressive. And it's obvious that both sides have a tradition of incorporating each others design elements. The F-22 has traits that a proven to be stealthy and beneficial for an air superiority fighter. So why shouldn't the Russians come up with a similar aircraft?

Personally I think the newer Russian designs are nice to look at and they make impressive airshow demos, but I think they are lumbering beasts that are not a significant threat to newer US and European platforms. The MiG-29 might be the only exception at this point.

The USAF set the requirments for the ATF (Raptor) so high, that it would have no foreign equal during it's entire life in service.

As I have said many times before, I have no doubt what so ever that Russia could, if given the resources, produce an aircraft that rivaled the Raptor.

That said, Russia simply does not have the money to build a rival.

As I just said, the cost of developing such an aircraft is more then Russia has to spend. And beyond that, the simple fact is that even if they had the money to spend on the R&D, they nor any of their potential buyers would have the money to buy a significant number of them.

The materials, building techniques, and electronic components simply prevent it from being affordable to countries like India, much less Iran and Syria.

There is simply no getting around the fact that a true rival to the raptor would by it's very nature cost AT LEAST 80 or 90 million dollars.

Even with a 60 billion dollar budget, and even if they used a whopping 15% of their total budget on procuring these aircraft (which of course is an impossably high figure) they could still only buy 100 aircraft a year. Now, since we all know that a more likely situation is that at the most 1 or 2% would be used, you get an idea of how unaffordable this is for Russia.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
How is the PAK-FA almost ready? Do they even have a prototype, have they even made a first flight?

Well the Russians have gone public to say that the first flight is in 2007 ...so i would believe that most of the design (which is stealthy) is ready and that includes most of the FBW systems, etc.

And a lot of the work on the aveonics might alredy be done and there are pics available of its latest 3D TVC systems in testing on a Su-35MB testbed...i'll post that too if you would like