China is ready to use nuclear weapons if U.S. of A joins the fight.

Originally posted by chinawhite
No governemnt is ligitament after they lose a civil war.

Ah the personal attack. You can strawman all you want but it cannot change the facts. :shk: Some would say that the war was not over rather there was a strategic retreat to Taiwan.

But that being the case here is China's claim to the island even legit? I think not. This is taken from an most excellent post by Muaddib
and can be found here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The original people of Taiwan are of Malay-Polynesian descent, and there are still many of them living in the mountains and forests.

There is also the Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895 When the Chinese Imperial government gave sovereingty of Taiwan to the Japanese forever. The Taiwanese did not like being incorporated to the Japanese empire, so with the help of China they declared its independanceon May 25th 1895. This was the first independant republic in Asia, with the help of the Manchu officials.

Althou the republic of Taiwan was crushed by the Japanese shortly after, and Taiwan remained part of the Japanese empire, there were always some revolts agains the Japanese government.

The below was a demonstration in 1995 to the Shimonoseki Treaty, and a way for the Taiwanese to say Goodbye to China

The information above and much more can be found in the following link, which is a Taiwanese link.
www.taiwandc.org...

Originally posted by FredT


Ah the personal attack.

ok you have no idea about anything.

You can strawman all you want but it cannot change the facts. :shk: Some would say that the war was not over rather there was a strategic retreat to Taiwan.

the war is not over. the chinese mainlanders still have not yet fiished off the taiwanese chinese.

the communist forces got approval from the chinese masses. how do you think we won the war. with american backing .

But that being the case here is China's claim to the island even legit? I think not. This is taken from an most excellent post by Muaddib
and can be found here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

yeah but the treatys after world war 2 gave china back that land. the ww2 canceled out the other treatys. how is any of his information relevant

i come from fujian province right next to taiwan. the majority of the people and taiwan are settlers from mainland china dating from the 1500s.

they are han chinese. like the majority of chinese.


i can produce heaps of maps showing that taiwan was part of the Qing dynasty

Originally posted by chinawhite
i can produce heaps of maps showing that taiwan was part of the Qing dynasty

So bloody what ? I can show you maps of the British Empire from several hundred years ago. Does that mean that Britain should reclaim its possessions ?
It's about time China moved into the modern world and accepted the staus quo. All the Chicoms want Taiwan for is to rape the economy and establish a buffer in the Pacific. Let's face it they couldn't give 2 sh!ts about the Taiwanese people.

Originally posted by rogue1


So bloody what ? I can show you maps of the British Empire from several hundred years ago. Does that mean that Britain should reclaim its possessions ?

FredT said taiwan was never part of china. again you come into a conversation between me and someone and interupt with this BS. As FredT pointed out. mainland chiense and taiwanese chinese are still at war.

It's about time China moved into the modern world and accepted the staus quo. All the Chicoms want Taiwan for is to rape the economy and establish a buffer in the Pacific. Let's face it they couldn't give 2 sh!ts about the Taiwanese people.

the taiwanese people are 70% fujianese/hakka. that is where i come from thats why it matters to me.

what is taiwan going to offer that it has't already?

invest billions in the mainland. buys from the mainland. has tourist coming everyday from the mainland.

they been claiming taiwan before taiwan was rich before it needed a buffer from the US.

or do you think these claims has surfaced just recently?

Chinawhite, you really do " DAZZLE WITH BULLSH!T ". Nothing you say is a valid reason.

PS. I couldn't careless if you were in the middle of a conversation.

You seem like a person who cannot think for themselves and just regurgitates the same old crap.

I find you highly amusing sometimes, but feel for the people of China if you are one of the better examples.

Originally posted by rogue1
PS. I couldn't careless if you were in the middle of a conversation.

we were having a talk and you come in and say something totally Irrelavant

You seem like a person who cannot think for themselves and just regurgitates the same old crap.

who is the one rushing?

[edit on 19-7-2005 by chinawhite]

china will beat u.s of a in no more than 20-30years in everything.

(and waiting for the flamers:@@

Don’t know what china will beat us at in 20-30 years but if our government keeps turning a blind eye to Chinas aggressive takeovers of US companies and markets then were… up. First IBM now Uncal next our appliance markets, then they can black mail us with economic pressure while they expand their military. Not to mention the insane free trade agreement our companies have to pay a 25 times higher tariff to sell products in to china then china has to pay to sell products into the US.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by chinawhite
the war is not over. the chinese mainlanders still have not yet fiished off the taiwanese chinese.

By finishing off you mean "kill" with NUKES? hahaha. But I think you don't have to do so because the Nationalists that retreated to Taiwan are becoming very old. Unless of course you want to kill their children and grand children for the glory of communists.

the communist forces got approval from the chinese masses. how do you think we won the war. with american backing

.

I must point out the Chinese communist forces got a great approval and backing from Russia communist party. And USSR was a powerful force. Some historians indicate that Russian gather and give the weapons the Japanese left behind in north east China to CCP.

Another thing obviously is that Nationalists during that time was corrupted. They think they won the war with Japan and enjoy themselves too much.

yeah but the treatys after world war 2 gave china back that land. the ww2 canceled out the other treatys. how is any of his information relevant

Some historians and law specialists think that there is no treaties that indicate Japan give Taiwan to China. The treaties after WW2 clearly indicates that Japan "give up" Taiwan, but Japan didn't indicate which country it gave to. Most colonies after WW2 was allowed to decide their own fate and most of them become independent nations.

Even if Japan indicates in any way that Taiwan should go to someone, it should be ROC (the government of China during Japan's defeat), Qing Dynasty(the government that gave Taiwan to Japan), or USA (the allied force that defeat Japan in the Pacific). Why would Japan gave Taiwan to CCP, which was just a political party during that time?

Taiwan is a land full of people not something Japan owns or China owns.
I hate to see the politicians to view the land as something of their own.

Originally posted by FredT
The original people of Taiwan are of Malay-Polynesian descent, and there are still many of them living in the mountains and forests.

And today they make up 2% of the population. 98% of people on Taiwan are either from the mainland or have ancestors who originate from the mainland. The majority of those belong either to the Hakka or Hoklo group, which are subgroups of Han. The rest are various other Han subgroups also from mainland. For political reasons, many western sources such as CIA world factbook separate mainland immigrants who arrive in Taiwan after 1949 with mainland immigrants who arrive before 1949, and considere the latter individuals "native Taiwanese," which is misleading since the only natives there are the Malay-Polynesians from the 2% of the population. The population is composed of 98% Chinese immigrants and their descendants.

Not that I'm saying this is a particularly big reason to consider Taiwan to be part of the PRC, I just want to clear up some misconceptions many westerners hold about the ethnic composition of Taiwan as a result of western propaganda.


This is all common knowledge to the Chinese but I expect many westerners would find that hard to believe and thus demand a link. www.cwcmf.org...

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Taishyou]

Originally posted by xiaoxing
Taiwan is a land full of people not something Japan owns or China owns.
I hate to see the politicians to view the land as something of their own.

I agree. Taiwan should belong to the Taiwanese period. No matter how you look at it, compulsion is just another word for force ... as in might makes right. As it was already pointed out, the day of enforced colonial satellites clients is over ... The former British Empire has embraced this progressive reality, The former Soviet Union likewise has take steps in this direction ... now the last major bastion of this perspective is China.

... after all,what is the point of this unifcation if one party is against it ... if this principle were to be applied to two individuals ....

it would be called forced subjugation ...

If you promote or tolerate such actions in a forced reunification of Taiwain then in principle you favor the guiding perspectives which permit rape and slavery.

LCKob

but who are the taiwanese.??

are they the aborigianls that lived there before or left the mainland for taiwan?

because if there for the aboringnals then i can name a lot of countries

Originally posted by twchang


By finishing off you mean "kill" with NUKES? hahaha. But I think you don't have to do so because the Nationalists that retreated to Taiwan are becoming very old. Unless of course you want to kill their children and grand children for the glory of communists.

destroy the KMT party

I must point out the Chinese communist forces got a great approval and backing from Russia communist party. And USSR was a powerful force. Some historians indicate that Russian gather and give the weapons the Japanese left behind in north east China to CCP.

Another thing obviously is that Nationalists during that time was corrupted. They think they won the war with Japan and enjoy themselves too much.

No most of the weapons the communist forces got were captured during the sino-japanese war and from the KMT

Originally posted by NWguy83

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
I assure you China is not Bluffing, Russia and China have been ready for nuke war scince 62 while US would lose 95% of it pop, Russsia and China would loos no more than 6% we have underground bunkers though out Russia and China I mean litteraly under neath Malls and stadiums.

American citizens would just invade Canada to escape the blasts. Canada; America's bomb shelter.

I swear if any Americans came up here to fight a war we would kick you out. If not our government then the 7 million gun wielding canadians who do not think highly of the U.S.

Originally posted by chinawhite


but who are the taiwanese.??

are they the aborigianls that lived there before or left the mainland for taiwan?

because if there for the aboringnals then i can name a lot of countries

The Taiwanese are (or were depending on how you look at it) Mainland Chinese ....

as parallelled with us Americans who WERE British citizens prior to our emancipation and separation from the "mother" country i.e. the British Empire.

Ehhh .... I am not sure what you mean by the second part ... could you clarify

" because if there for the aboringnals then i can name a lot of countries"

LCKob

if you claim that the oringinal inhabitants of taiwan own the land.

Originally posted by chinawhite
if you claim that the oringinal inhabitants of taiwan own the land.

Land "ownership" is in reality closer to a "cultural" lease than absolute ownership IMO ... to give you an example ...

Archeologists are finding evidence that the Hawaiian Islands were the home to an older race which was supplanted by the group we now call Hawaiians.

The Hawaiian Islands were then absorbed by western concerns which lead to Territory Status and finally outright statehood.

So I would put it this way ... ownership of land is based upon practical and long term tenure in occupation and development.

Technically speaking if you believe in Evolution and the evidence for a genetic "EVE" ... then most if not all land would belong to those emerging from the african continent on a nomadic trek through the pacific rim, asia and on to the Americas.

Personally I don't hold to this level of "original" tenent ownership

LCKob

Originally posted by LCKob

Originally posted by chinawhite
if you claim that the oringinal inhabitants of taiwan own the land.

Land "ownership" is in reality closer to a "cultural" lease than absolute ownership IMO ... to give you an example ...

Archeologists are finding evidence that the Hawaiian Islands were the home to an older race which was supplanted by the group we now call Hawaiians.

The Hawaiian Islands were then absorbed by western concerns which lead to Territory Status and finally outright statehood.

So I would put it this way ... ownership of land is based upon practical and long term tenure in occupation and development.

Technically speaking if you believe in Evolution and the evidence for a genetic "EVE" ... then most if not all land would belong to those emerging from the african continent on a nomadic trek through the pacific rim, asia and on to the Americas. In other words the world would "technically" be owned by Africa by means of her nomadic natives.

Personally I don't hold to this level of "original" tenent ownership though

LCKob

i dont get what your trying to say