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U.S. struggling on China-war planning : top USAF officer

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posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by JamesinOz
I read about lasers, but I have to ask myself: how realistic is this stuff? Can they really be deployed anytime soon? Would they be effective?

Here's an article on a test they had last Nov.
US conducts sucessful test of anti-ballistic missile laser

The United States has reported a successful ground-based test of an airborne laser meant to intercept ballistic missiles.

The Missile Defense Agency said the megawatt-class laser underwent a successful test on Nov. 10. The Pentagon agency said the laser was operated in a ground-based demonstration at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.

Officials said this marked the first time that a directed energy weapon meant for use in a Boeing 747 aircraft has been demonstrated.

The test, which lasted a fraction of a second, involved the simultaneous firing of all six laser modules and associated optics that comprise the Chemical Oxygen Iodine Laser. Officials said the modules,built by Northrop Grumman, performed as expected.


Another article on a different test:
Long range missile test

Israeli-U.S. Laser Downs Long-Range Missile in Test

May 7, 7:54 AM (ET)

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A laser beam under joint Israeli-U.S. development destroyed a long-range rocket for the first time in a test in the skies over the American Southwest, Israel's Defense Ministry said on Friday.
Israel has sought an effective defense against ballistic missiles since 1991 when Iraq launched Scuds into the Jewish state during the first Gulf War. It has since developed the Arrow anti-ballistic missile with U.S. funding.

"This is a significant step forward," a ministry spokesman said of the test on May 4 of the "Nautilus" Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser (MTHEL) held at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.


We're getting there...





What I want to know is HOW the US can claim to have the ability to detect a ballistic missile launch ANYWHERE on the planet.. I just cannot visualise the tech behind this detection procedure..
maybe a new thread is inorder to investigate this astounding technology..

That "astounding" groundbreaking technology comes in the form of satellites....
We've had that ability to detect a missile anywhere at least since the 70s
www.fas.org...

Here's more:
www.centennialofflight.gov...




Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

The US cannot survive a Russian attack but can take a Chinese nuke attack with ease.


I don't know about that man, nuclear war is no joke.

No it's not a joke, but Russia can attack anywhere in the US many times over. China doesn't have that ability.
We can survive a Chinese nuke attack, but I wish he would define "with ease"




posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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thanks for all of that info...very interesting stuff!

I read all of these reports but a voice inside me still says "are they really going to have this stuff up and running in time? Will it really work in a real world situation?"

If I was in government I'd really be pushing for massive R & D into this kind of missile shield tech...if it isn't happening already.

I'm afraid that once some idiot actually uses one of these devices, then it gives everyone the green light to go...who knows how many are ready to go?

thanks again for the links...cheers



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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The first, about the US ABL laser---it was a LAB based test of the laser itself on a bench.

Not an actual systems intercept!!

The MTHEL people are talking about intercepting mortars and rockets like the ones fired by Hezbollah.

In an aerial war-zone a mounted laser may be able to aid in point defense against
SAMs or possibly cruise missiles or even local ballistic missiles.

Nailing true orbital ICBM's or anything close to that is a whole different story. Now if you're trying for a laser hit, remember that the nosecone of the re-entry vehicle is already very well designed to withstand the immense heat of re-entry, like space shuttle tile material. Hitting the atmosphere at 5 km/s is a whole hell of a lot of heat anyway---are you going to be able to put enough extra energy on it with your laser to make much more of a difference? Seems unlikely.

This is a totally different scenario than a local tactical intercept when a laser may be able to burn through a casing of a rocket motor and vaporize the volatile fuel inside. A local laser may be good for protecting an AWACS craft or something like that---perhaps getting a sea-skimming anti-ship cruise missile too.

In the ICBM's case the rocket is long gone, and you have a very aerodynamic and heat-resistant heavy rock coming at you at immense speeds. And of course it's spinning very rapidly for stability making it all that much harder to concentrate any laser spot on it for enough time to do damage. And unless you can seriously detect and beam into space you have a few seconds---and oh yeah you have to hit something hundreds to thousands of kilometers away which is a meter in diameter, and among dozens of decoys.

By the way, your big fat ground-based laser makes a really nice, expensive, immobile and obvious unhardened target, not to mention your multi-megawatt emitting radar yelling "I'M HERE"



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel
The first, about the US ABL laser---it was a LAB based test of the laser itself on a bench.

Not an actual systems intercept!!

The MTHEL people are talking about intercepting mortars and rockets like the ones fired by Hezbollah.

In an aerial war-zone a mounted laser may be able to aid in point defense against
SAMs or possibly cruise missiles or even local ballistic missiles.

Nailing true orbital ICBM's or anything close to that is a whole different story. Now if you're trying for a laser hit, remember that the nosecone of the re-entry vehicle is already very well designed to withstand the immense heat of re-entry, like space shuttle tile material. Hitting the atmosphere at 5 km/s is a whole hell of a lot of heat anyway---are you going to be able to put enough extra energy on it with your laser to make much more of a difference? Seems unlikely.

This is a totally different scenario than a local tactical intercept when a laser may be able to burn through a casing of a rocket motor and vaporize the volatile fuel inside. A local laser may be good for protecting an AWACS craft or something like that---perhaps getting a sea-skimming anti-ship cruise missile too.

In the ICBM's case the rocket is long gone, and you have a very aerodynamic and heat-resistant heavy rock coming at you at immense speeds. And of course it's spinning very rapidly for stability making it all that much harder to concentrate any laser spot on it for enough time to do damage. And unless you can seriously detect and beam into space you have a few seconds---and oh yeah you have to hit something hundreds to thousands of kilometers away which is a meter in diameter, and among dozens of decoys.

By the way, your big fat ground-based laser makes a really nice, expensive, immobile and obvious unhardened target, not to mention your multi-megawatt emitting radar yelling "I'M HERE"


thanks mbkennel,

the expertise you get on this board blows me away....

when you read about the reality of what these things do when they're coming at you, and their lethal design intent, it's enough to make you fall off your chair when you realise how hard it is to actually defend against them...

thanks for injecting an element of reality into this discussion!



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 01:12 AM
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Really though, what war?, US black ops has a technology to be there in about twenty minutes. So what war would develop. China's might will be done and so will China. Just, it would be so unfortunate for the loss of life.

China's people are, in my opinion, honest, hard working and peaceful people. Could they really want devastation for themselves and their families?

Dallas



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas
China's people are, in my opinion, honest, hard working and peaceful people.


I dont deny that and never posted on the contrary.


Could they really want devastation for themselves and their families?

But how can yo be sure the political leadership represents the aspirations of the people as its not a democratic system and the people have no say and there are no elections.The media & other facilities is state controlled and tells the people only what it wants them to know.



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 01:33 AM
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china might be a one party country but it has over 63million members. china is a free market economy. it produces want is in demand and doesn't produce by government quotas.

sure the government broadcast its opinion of events in governemnt controlled media. but your forgeting that china has over 40 television channels and most of the people of the coast can watch T.V from hong kong and taiwan.



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 01:43 AM
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I think stealthspy that you dont really know anything about china...no offense intended but you say china is one party and only state controls but you dont really know post-1980s china




The Chinese Media: More Autonomous and Diverse--Within Limits

www.cia.gov...



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 02:38 AM
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Hi again Chinawhite !

I cant speak for anyone but me, but you keep on going and going an going, defending China, its extremes and its future military thoughts - I feel..

Me, I defend caring amongst nations and disdain to any or all other nations not appreciating Human Rights.

Forget the weapons and the masses as the US will succeed without damage to other world communities.

I'm just wondering, why your so bluntly pro-China, eg are you a Ambassador to the US , no I guess that can't be as I think China doesn't allow female Ambassadors. But perhaps your some sort of propaganda Agent?

Tell us your story if its allowed..

Dallas



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 03:23 AM
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i am a secret agent of the chinese communist party. everybody that is pro-china is communist and anti-america...

i think everybody here knows that i live in australia.??? or maybe not??


anyhow...how am i talking about all chinese when i post something about china?

i give my opinion based on the facts(western media and chinese media and just being chinese)


i can talk about average chinese because i have lived in china and have experienced what its like...most people here have never been to china or seen the real china...

A chinese living in america australia taiwan are all connected by blood, culture . were not different people. just seperated by standard of living

articles write things like-real china then show poverty, but dont you guys already think china is like that?

the chinese communist party has done a great job. 200million middle class and a below poverty population of 10%



Dallas you seem to have a beef with me for some reason but don't seem to have a beef with stealthspy. care to explain why?



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 03:28 AM
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Thanks for the honesty. The first line alone of your last post tells me its best that I avoid further comments respecting your support of a party I condem.

However, to answer your question - NO, I wasn't against you.

Dallas



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas

Thanks for the honesty. The first line alone of your last post tells me its best that I avoid further comments respecting your support of a party I condem.

However, to answer your question - NO, I wasn't against you.

Dallas



lol i was kidding about being communist or is this sarcaism??



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 03:37 AM
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dallas do you support human rights??

if someone killed another person or caused great harm to another person should he die for it? i think he should.



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 03:42 AM
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Great question..

I'm not sure. The Bible says an eye for an eye though. And you?, how do you feel abou punishment for murder-deliberate (pre medatated)?

Dallas



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas

Great question..

I'm not sure. The Bible says an eye for an eye though. And you?, how do you feel abou punishment for murder-deliberate (pre medatated)?

Dallas


i do not get human rights.

(sorry about this but im refering back to china)

china has the highest excution rate in the world. human rights groups say its againest their rights but do people that murder and rape and causes harm or finaical hardship to a lot of people.

my opinion is that these people should die.



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

I think stealthspy that you dont really know anything about china...no offense intended but you say china is one party and only state controls but you dont really know post-1980s china




I can't speak for stealth spy but I'm sure I know more about China than you know about India..

I mean you've made statements amounting to

"if you're muslim, then you're not Indian."
and
you've made analogies which give a one-is-to-one relationbetween ethnicity and religion..
e.g: "comparing being chinese in taiwan to being muslim in Kashmir"
again totally whacked comparisions..

LET me tell you this for the last time.. if you say Pakistan was created for a home to the muslims of colonial India then
60% of those muslims stayed back in India


thats actually the reason for the pakistani political psyche shifting its attention to kashmir...because the very reason for creating pakistan was a failure..not a very bright prospect for a newly formed nation..

Kashmir is just a scapegoat to give the dejected paki masses an objective in life..


Note: Regarding the topic I think the boeing ABL laser was recently tested in May 05.. Any notes on those trials?

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 05:17 AM
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where do the muslims live in india in the cities or border states to indias muslim neighbours



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 05:33 AM
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Thats my point..


They're everywhere.. In the north of course.. but there's no such thing like "muslim-devoid regions" or "only-muslim" regions..

Thats why it is of great importance to india that muslims and hindus live in peace because if riots break out then conflicts zones will be there in every part of the country..
Secularism is the only way for India.. It has been for thousands of years..

The Hindus ruled India for thousands of years..The muslims ruled India for at least a 1000 years.. If either religion wanted complete conversion they had more than ample time to do so.. Esp. the muslims because they came later..
But India taught invading muslims the art of "tolerance".. Islam in India (this is 3000 years ago) was also practised with moderation and respect for other religions..



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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there was a huge riot in india today somewhere north.

also the early hindu empires didn't cover what modern day india is now. same goes for chinese empires.

but your example of hindu empires cant be used to say that the whole of india was ruled by hindus



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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There was no riot in India today..The opposition party tried to enforce an unlawful curfew because some six terrorists had stormed into a sacred hindu worshipping site..That's what happened today/yesterday..

And your statements about the hindu empires have nothing to do with what I said about them.. I used them in context to the muslim population in India and the secular nature of the indian psyche..
You still haven't been able to prove your statement that :
"Kashmir is muslim majority (agreed) and HENCE by default cannot belong to India"

Nepal has a Hindu Majority.. Is it a part of India??..
Religion (At least in secular democratic republics) does not dictate boundaries.. and it never can if we are to progress(evolve) as a species..




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