Interesting information on the "Christianity is a copy of Pagan Myths" Theory

Heheheeee! Good one!

I don't read Greek but, here's what BabelFish returned:
The theology of discussion is so much useless as trying straggj'xej the ocean with a teaspoon of sweet and only the fools him they make, consequently if you take vakkj'nja and him you cook in saucepan as the pulping of apples, it trys still much more as the rhubarb of pla then...

Originally posted by toasted
oh , my .

focused a bit too much on the negative, eh ?

I've noticed this throughout the whole thread. Here's a fun exercise. Go through each entry and put either a + or - based on whether you'd consider the comment to be positive or negative.

The problem with discerning proof by using only history is that you have to go by the word and pen of people who no longer walk the earth. Christianity is not claiming to be a dead belief, rather one that is more alive today than any previous point in history. Does that make any logical sense that belief is stronger now that we have more knowledge of science, society, law and people? Of course it doesn't when you have only that picture. So then, go to the source and find out not only by text, but the reality that you're living in right now. Ask God.

Originally posted by Zipdot
Jesus doesn't want people to evangelize. (Jesus doesn't want Creationism taught in public schools.)

Zip

Matthew 28:18 - Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

He didn't Zip? What's he saying here?

Originally posted by saint4God

The problem with discerning proof by using only history is that you have to go by the word and pen of people who no longer walk the earth.

Ok, I am confused here but . . . the Bilble itself is a compilation of narratives accounts gather through a large period of time and written by also the word and pen of people that that not longer walk the earth?

Also the problem with Jesus was that no where it said that he was an expert in politics, science and religion.

The good in the bible may communicate with the faithful, but has he make itself public since the "ancient bible times" and has advocated for his people to believe.

It seems that he has abandon us here in earth and has leave it to the "experts on God's words" to tell us what is right or wrong, occurs in their own personal interpretations that it.

The problem with "leaving it to God" is that everybody has their own definition of the truth and in their minds is the right one and only way to believe.

That is why we have so many denominations of religion and religious believes and sometime even when they are all Christians they do not agree with each other.



[edit on 6-7-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
Ok, I am confused here but . . . the Bilble itself is a compilation of narratives accounts gather through a large period of time and written by also the world and pen of people that that not longer walk the earth?

You are correct. The Bible is a great guide, road map, and historical account of the events relating to God. God however, is not print on paper, but One that is alive right now. No-one can have a personal relationship with the Book. Sorry to disappoint, but the Book doesn't love, heal, listen, answer back, etc.

Originally posted by marg6043
Also the problem with Jesus was that no where it said that he was an expert in politics, science and religion.

So?

Originally posted by marg6043
The good in the bible may communicate with the faithful, but has he make itself public since the "ancient bible times" and has advocated for his people to believe.

It seems that he has abandon us here in earth and has leave it to the "experts on God's words" to tell us what is right or wrong, occurs in their own personal interpretations that it.

Don't listen to others. Get your own proof. Talk to God Himself.

Originally posted by marg6043
The problem with "leaving it to God" is that everybody has their own definition of the truth and in their minds is the right one and only way to believe.

Don't listen to yourself. Get your own proof. Talk to God Himself.

Originally posted by marg6043
That is why we have so many denominations of religion and religious believes and sometime even when they are all Christians they do not agree with each other.

I will disagree with you here. Rather than run through a long list of different denominational churches I've attended, I can say they all tell you to read the Book and have a personal relationship with God. That His son Jesus the Christ died for our sins. Jesus talks about the one body (John 3:16 for example, the criteria is laid out plainly), Paul addresses this in 1st Corinthians, and so on and so on. There's a history behind why we have different churches but that makes no difference when they're delivering the same message. These 'disagreements' have no bearing on the recognition of these facts no more than deciding what our favorite color is.

[edit on 6-7-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Zipdot
Jesus doesn't want people to evangelize. (Jesus doesn't want Creationism taught in public schools.)

Zip

Matthew 28:18 - Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

He didn't Zip? What's he saying here?

Obviously I provided that as an example of a contradiction, and as well as an example of how a man can make a slave of a Bible passage, using it to support and justify his will, no matter what that will be. Mine in that case was "Jesus said we shouldn't teach creationism in schools."

What have you to say about the rest that I have written about Christianity? Have you taken the Bible Poop Quiz?

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot
Obviously I provided that as an example of a contradiction, and as well as an example of how a man can make a slave of a Bible passage, using it to support and justify his will, no matter what that will be. Mine in that case was "Jesus said we shouldn't teach creationism in schools."

If I'm misusing the passage then you could answer my question. I did not state what I believe he said, I quoted it and asked you what he said.

Originally posted by Zipdot
What have you to say about the rest that I have written about Christianity?

Some I can see where you're coming from, some I don't know about and one more I don't agree with which is killing people for no "damn" reason. The damning reason was ourselves, but there's no sense quoting the whole Old Testament for that. The Book is available for anyone's use and if they want, I'll send my copy free.

Originally posted by Zipdot
Have you taken the Bible Poop Quiz?

Zip

I don't think I want to even click on the link based on the title. Would you stick a knife into an outlet if someone told you to? I'd hope not. I've come here to hear you, not goofy satirical quizzes. It's insulting to want other people to waste their time on crap in the middle of a serious discussion.


[edit on 6-7-2005 by saint4God]

Judge not the quiz before you take it. It's based entirely on scripture. It's one of many similar quizzes. Here's a sample question:

1. Which of the following delicacies did people of the Bible dine on?

A. Their own excrement.
B. Their own urine.
C. A and B.
D. None of the above.

Sample answer:

1. Which of the following delicacies did people of the Bible dine on?

Correct Answer: C (A and B.) “But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you” (Isaiah 36:12)?

... Zip

EDIT: Speaking of insulting... I find many stories in the Bible to be crude, archaic, and insulting. Often, I don't see a being of light in the Bible. I often see muddied waters, ignorance, and immorality. I see many 'lessons" that I think children should not be subjected to until they are at least teenagers. If you don't want to take this or a similar quiz, then that's fine - I'm used to people ignoring the bad parts of the Bible. I'm used to people not clicking on my links.

[edit on 7/6/2005 by Zipdot]

saint4God

I agree with you until the last statement on the different denominations, views. I still have very strong facts on that one, but any else you quote I actually find the answers very nice indeed. BTW this in our interchange.

Back to the issue at hand, let's talk about the Chaldean Flood Myth.

source
The god Chronos warned Xisuthrus of a coming flood, ordered him to write a history, and told him to build a vessel (5 stadia by 2 stadia) for himself, his friends and relations, and all kinds of animals, all of hich he did. After the flood had come and abated somewhat, he sent out some birds, which returned.

Later, he tried again, and the birds returned with mud on their feet. On the third trial, the birds didn't return. He disembarked and, with his wife, daughter, and pilot, offered sacrifices to the gods. Those four were translated to live with the gods. [George Smith, in Dundes]

This account is part of the famous Gilgamesh story, of course, but many people are not familiar with its finer details.

This is a good comparison page.

To be fair, it is possible that Gilgamesh's story came from an earlier Hebrew story that Genesis was descended from, but this may be unlikely.

The only significant difference in the stories is this:

The Genesis story describes how mankind had become obnoxious to God; they were hopelessly sinful and wicked. In the Babylonian story, they were too numerous and noisy.

Beyond that, all basic ingredients are identical or nearly identical, including the bird scouts, sacrifice, the makeup of the ark, location, etc.

Zip

Indeed God was at a time a very sensitive entity that felt the need to unleash his anger at any time that mankind his creation made him mad.

Funny how with time God has actually gone through and evolution and now he just sit and let mankind do what ever it wishes.

Or perhaps now mankind understand more the meaning of natural disasters and it doesn't necessary have to pinned to a divine entity anger.

The flood has many explanations even when the are close to the epic of other myths.

Originally posted by Zipdot
Judge not the quiz before you take it. It's based entirely on scripture. It's one of many similar quizzes. Here's a sample question:

I saw the quiz. Just as suspected.

Originally posted by Zipdot
EDIT: Speaking of insulting... I find many stories in the Bible to be crude, archaic, and insulting. Often, I don't see a being of light in the Bible. I often see muddied waters, ignorance, and immorality.

Well, let's talk about that then.

Originally posted by Zipdot
I see many 'lessons" that I think children should not be subjected to until they are at least teenagers.

Perhaps. The Book does talk about as children we act like children and as adults to act as adults.

Originally posted by Zipdot
If you don't want to take this or a similar quiz, then that's fine - I'm used to people ignoring the bad parts of the Bible. I'm used to people not clicking on my links.

Let's talk about the 'bad parts' of the Bible. I've no problem with that. As far as obsessions with fecal matter and other tooling of negativity, I'd rather not participate. I don't agree with the Quran, but you'll not see me post a picture of it in the toilet and take it out of context. In other words, it's propaganda.




[edit on 6-7-2005 by saint4God]

Hmm, that quiz is more distasteful than I remember it, even as I was mindlessly quoting a sample question and answer. Sorry, I've got more class than that.

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot
Hmm, that quiz is more distasteful than I remember it, even as I was mindlessly quoting a sample question and answer. Sorry, I've got more class than that.

Zip

No worries, there was a time or two I was at a meeting somewhere or was watching a movie and had to walk out. I believe you do per our discussion on avatar pictures. Now there were some things with intellectual appeal.

Originally posted by marg6043
Funny how with time God has actually gone through and evolution and now he just sit and let mankind do what ever it wishes.

There's some truth to this. Mankind rejected God being the one in complete charge. God, to a certain degree, does let men and women do what we want. God is still very much involved, but He is letting man have a certain degree of freedom. With this freedom we are slowly destroying ourself. Sin also reaks havoc on creation. The point of all this. To show us that we need God. Left to ourself we cannot make a paradise. God knows what He's talking about when He let's us know we need Him. The atrocities we have done will prove for all eternity that without God as #1 in mankinds life we would not make it.

Originally posted by dbrandt

God knows what He's talking about when He let's us know we need Him. The atrocities we have done will prove for all eternity that without God as #1 in mankind life we would not make it.

I agree with you to a degree here, yes the bible teachings gives examples for human to live under the guidance of moralistic code of conduct, but I will separate the faith from the laws of conducts.

People can still go by the moral teachings in the bible and still not necessarily believe in a all mighty God that created all and offers a salvation in a paradise, that believe it or not sounds pagan in nature.

It also renders God too human.

Still we all know what is right or wrong under the law of man and under personal religious believes, no necessarily Christian base.

[edit on 6-7-2005 by marg6043]

It's EXTREMELY pagan in nature. Human sacrifice, elysium fields, fire and brimstone, etc... Nothing adds up to a modern understanding of what may perhaps be subtly intelligent whisps of existential guidance, yielding consciousness, variety, and progression.*

*Note: I don't particularly believe in such a thing, but I wanted to throw an example out there of modern religions that somewhat make sense.

Zip

[edit on 7/6/2005 by Zipdot]

Given that Judaism begins "in the beginning" it would then be impossible to copy off of anything but Judaism. Christianity (which includes Judaism) is the revamping of the parts of Judaism that seemed to go off track by those who considered law above spirit.

Just thought I'd be fair and make my assertion without any back-up as well.

Originally posted by saint4God
Given that Judaism begins "in the beginning" it would then be impossible to copy off of anything but Judaism. Christianity (which includes Judaism) is the revamping of the parts of Judaism that seemed to go off track by those who considered law above spirit.

Just thought I'd be fair and make my assertion without any back-up as well.

Then how would you explain Hinduism, Shamanism and animism, which, having no contact whatsoever with Judaism, being thousands of years older?

Originally posted by nathraq
Then how would you explain Hinduism, Shamanism and animism, which, having no contact whatsoever with Judaism, being thousands of years older?

It was more of a silly-slap than an attempt to prove any specific point but I'm game. The bottom line is, when you believe that Judaism began when "God created heaven and earth" then nothing could possibly come before it. Post-era Tower of Babel, there were many tribes and languages that went about their way in the world.

Just my perspective from this point forward. What's interesting is the further away you move from Israel in ancient times, the less similarities you have with God as viewed by a lot of Hebrew and Christian people. Hinduism has more in common with Judaism/Christianity than Buddhism, Buddhism more in common than Taoism and same going in the other direction. This is from my observation and study so it's arguable.

Every time I see that bumper sticker that says "Give me that Old Time religion", I always think they're talking about the 12 tribes of Israel.


[edit on 7-7-2005 by saint4God]