Interesting information on the "Christianity is a copy of Pagan Myths" Theory

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Zipdot
Most translations show that the passage says HE will crush YOUR head (woman) and YOU will crush HIS heel (man). It's talking about man and woman... Unless you think Jesus is gonna crush your head?


Zip

Genesis 3:14 God is talking to satan and the serpent. Verse 15 He's still talking to satan. Christ has and will defeat satan. See also www.biblestudy.org...

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but, do you need a ladder? That is one of the most far-fetched, over-reaching, jaw-dropping "Christian insertions" of all time. I don't even know any Christians who would buy into that.

Originally posted by Al Davison

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Zipdot
Most translations show that the passage says HE will crush YOUR head (woman) and YOU will crush HIS heel (man). It's talking about man and woman... Unless you think Jesus is gonna crush your head?


Zip

Genesis 3:14 God is talking to satan and the serpent. Verse 15 He's still talking to satan. Christ has and will defeat satan. See also www.biblestudy.org...

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but, do you need a ladder? That is one of the most far-fetched, over-reaching, jaw-dropping "Christian insertions" of all time. I don't even know any Christians who would buy into that.

What is far-fetched about it?

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Zipdot
Most translations show that the passage says HE will crush YOUR head (woman) and YOU will crush HIS heel (man). It's talking about man and woman... Unless you think Jesus is gonna crush your head?


Zip

Genesis 3:14 God is talking to satan and the serpent. Verse 15 He's still talking to satan. Christ has and will defeat satan. See also www.biblestudy.org...

Oops, me stupid.

Verse 12, he's talking to man (Adam)
Verse 13, he's talking to woman (Eve)
Verse 14, he's talking to Satan (Serpent)
Verse 15, he's talking to Satan, but referring to Adam and Eve. "thou shalt bruise his heel," to me, is speaking about Adam.

From your link, "The serpent unequivocally represents Satan, also human beings that are, consciously or not, serving his purpose ( "your seed" ). The woman represents Christ and the church ( "her seed" )."

I disagree - I don't think it's a prophecy about Christ. It can be interpreted in several ways.

Zip

[edit on 7/1/2005 by Zipdot]

The punishment in Gen 3:14-19 is directed to Adam and Eve, and the serpent, looks like the Egyptian Osiris cycle.

By bible understanding Adam and Eve violated God's commandment so along with the serpent they are to be punished, this part match the Osiris cycle of myth.

In the Osiris story, ater Set killed Osiris, the deceased God impregnates his wife Isis. Because she was afraid of having her son Horus killed she hid him in a swamp, Set found out the hiding place and in the "form of a serpent" nipped the child in his "heel".

God in Genesis punished the serpent by having him crawl on his belly and putting enmity between him and the woman and him and the child. While crawling on his belly, he would try to "Bruise the child's heel".

In the Osisis cycle of myth, he crawled to the child, and nipped at his heels becoming enemies of mother and child.

As you see just like the Genesis accounts the story or myth is very similar.

In the Egyptian scenes the "Great Cat of Heliopolis" Re is shown in the form of a cat bruising the head of the serpent that lives in a tree. In Genesis, Adam is despicted as bruising also the head of the serpent in the tree.

www.infomideast.com...

The last punishment was for womankind to experience childbirth, meaning that until then was painless, this sounds like the "Sumerian myth of Enki and NInhursag" where childbrith in paradise is painless.

ragz-international.com...

According to the Egyptian story, Geb and Nut were lovers, and Re, told them not to mate they ignored the commandment, and Nut was forgiven from giving birth causing her pain and disconfort.

www.civilization.ca...

Funny how the Egyptian and Summerian myths are not far away from the stories of Genesis, Geb and Nut could be Adam and Eve, both sets ignored a direct order from their higher deity and both women were punished with childbirth troubles.

Oooh, good stuff, marg, I wasn't aware of a lot of that. Neat!

Zip

I have always been very interested in Ancient history and lost and old civilizations, because I feel that they on their own have many amazing stories to tell.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by JustMe74

Originally posted by dbrandt
Christ came 2000 years ago and died for sins, but the beginning of this was back in the book of Genesis.

No, it wasn't. Why do Christians feel the need to find Jesus in nearly every passage in the Tanach? It simply isn't there in the text - anywhere!

Um, yah it was and still is. Genesis 3:15 And I shall put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy thy head, and thou shalt bruise his(Jesus Christ) heel.

Even in your poor translation, it's clear that the "his" is not referring to Jesus. A better translation, in modern English:

Stone Edition Tanach: Genesis 3:15
I will put enmity between between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will pound your head, and you will bite his heel.

One of the thinks about the books of Genesis or the Torah is that even when they are credited to Moses he didn't wrote them, and if the books was the narratives of the Moses, we must take in consideration that moses was raised an educated Egyptian and that included the Egyptian stories of creation.

I too Enjoy reading your work Marg

Thanks for keeping this thread open, and the discussion flowing

~The Downfall~
Quote///"And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed" (Gen. 2:8).
........Called to the Divine-like and equal-to-the-angels life, and to increasingly greater and closer communication with God, man should not have been distracted from this most important goal by excessive care about himself.
The Creator gave him everything that was necessary for life.
He also gave man a commandment: "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it" (Gen. 2:16-17).
www.fatheralexander.org...

..............Waiting for repentance at least from Eve, God says to her: "What is this that thou hast done?"
But she, too, continues with the persistent self-justification,
saying: "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

The Lord does not ask anything of the serpent — the ancient dragon
, called the Devil,
the slanderer,
who deceives the entire universe (Rev. 12:9).
He does not waste a single word in vain with the conscious slanderer, for whose repentance there is no hope.
Asking him nothing,
the Lord lays a curse on him,
which ends with the promise that is terrible for the devil but reassuring to grave,
but not hopeless, sinners: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel," or in the more expressive Slavonic variant, translated from the Greek by the 70 interpreters (the Septuagint): "It shall wipe off your head."

This promise, with which God reassured the sinful people, the Church called the First Gospel — the first good news.

"Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."

IX
helen

I apologize if this was already mentioned, I just stumbled into the thread and did not have time to read all the posts.
---------------------------------------------------


isn't it possible , that Jesus is just the most recent attempt by God to teach his children on earth ?

and that the other mentioned pagans, were prior attempts by God to teach !?

Teach us what?

...Teach us about the finer points of keeping slaves?
...Teach us about bizarre sexual stories / the usage of dildoes / other unsuitable-for-children sexual stories?
...Teach us about a bizarre fetish that the New Testament has with excrement?

If it were up to the Bible, the world would be a much more twisted place than it already is.

Zip

oh , my .

focused a bit too much on the negative, eh ?

So the homocidial genocidal maniac who is the super-god of the old testament gets a free pass because jesus was a pacifistic hippy? We can just shrug it off?

I have NOTHING to offer beyond the FACT...that I am fascinated!!!

Christianity's God likes mooning people.

Exd 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

Exd 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Jesus admits that he and God are two different entities, and furthermore he states that he is not entirely good.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jesus doesn't want people to evangelize. (Jesus doesn't want Creationism taught in public schools.)

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Jesus said he'd be right back - he was just gonna pop over to Kroger's to pick up some eggs.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly

Rev 22:20 Surely I come quickly.

God killed people by the damn thousands for no damn reason. Here's one example.

Jos 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, [and] were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: [they were] more which died with hailstones than [they] whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

"Original sin:" is it logical? Where's the moral story in original sin?

Let me know when you run out and need more stuff to dwell on.

Zip

yup

I have



you see contrivances there , so do I, in something out of nothing..."big bang"

a different sort , but another leap of faith just the same.



eh ?

oh my,

aren't we having fun

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........................



all that don't matter bud .

I can't prove God exists, and you can't prove , the universe was created out of nothing.

you have FAITH the other is true, cuz you can punch holes in the "story"

right ?

Toasted, Bob Marley isn't the only reggae musician in the world, dig?

I didn't choose between Christianity and the Big Bang theory. I chose and continue to choose to believe the Big Bang theory because the evidence amounts to nearly solid proof of the process, which is much more than I can say for many religions that I have studied.

In time, the theory may be refined and perhaps adjusted, and more evidence will be discovered and gathered to support it. There may be some big surprises in the development of such theories, but I really don't see anything on the horizon that will lend credence to the notion that the Christian God "spoke" the universe into existence.

Zip

[edit on 7/6/2005 by Zipdot]

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