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Does the Bible make sure there will never be another Prophet?

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posted on May, 30 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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ok....

quote///the Second Coming of Christ on earth: "And when these things [the sorrows of the last days] begin to come to pass then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near" (Lk 21:28).
The Lord described His Second Coming as being sudden and obvious to all: "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west; so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Prior to this, the "sign of the Son of Man will appear in Heaven," and having seen it, "all the peoples of the world will mourn" (Mt. 24:30). According to the Fathers of the Church, this will be the sign of the saving Cross of our Lord.

The Lord will descend in all His glory surrounded by innumerable angels: "Then they will see the Son of Man, coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and all His angels with Him …
Then He will sit on the throne of His glory…" (Mt. 24:30, 25:31, Mk. 13:26). From these words we should conclude that the Second Coming of Christ will look substantially different from the first one,
during which He willingly humbled Himself and came in the semblance of an ordinary man.
Then He lived in poverty and voluntarily suffered all kinds of humiliations. His Second Coming will also differ in purpose.
First He came to give His soul for the salvation of many; then He will come to judge the world and recompense everyone according to his deeds. (Acts 17:31; Mt. 24:27).
www.fatheralexander.org...

I.X
helen




posted on May, 30 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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Helen

My 2 cents on the "two prophets" during the Great Tribulation

Moses and Elijah

Rev 11:3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.
Rev 11:6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.


Elijah did the fire from heaven thing and also shut up the heavens so it did not rain

Moses did the plagues and turned the water to blood.

Moses represents the Law
Elijah represents the prophets

Elijah was raptured...and no man buried Moses.

I may be wrong...just thought I'd float that out there because of all the 'coincidences' between what Eli and Moses and the two future guys have in common



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt


BUT...........Jesus Christ isn't going to come back in modern garb. I have heard other people ask this same question. And here is the answer. Jesus came the first time and was born and lived like us(He was still God also) and died for our sins and rose again. That's a done deal. He's not going to come back as a baby again like some movies and shows portray. He is going to return again but this time to rule the world. I stress agaain people need to study the Bible for themselves and see what it says, and hopefully accept Christ in the process.


Sorry for answering this without going to the end of the thread but was afraid I would forget to address it
(just had a birthday and senior moments come closer and closer now )

I realize that Jesus isn't going to come back -- I meant it more as an example of a figure we know and accept -- using him as an example of what we know is true but what if people were to have said "False" Which actually I am sure people did say -- but it seems to me that people now would be screaming it without taking the time to figure out if it is true or not. Kind of a knee jerk reaction - I seem to see in people now days.

Boy I hope that made sense



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
Dbrandt.....

that even the elect will be decieved...means that if the deception and the tortures that will be occuring WE will not be able to handle them and so we will bow down to the Antichrist.


The deception will be great and we would be deceived if we were here, but believers are not.

So believers will bow down to the antichrist. Is that what you are saying? And if they will, how far will that bowing down go, as far as taking the mark of the beast?

I'll throw my guess in on the 2 witnesses. Elijah and the apostle John.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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It is not possible for the elect to be deceived.
The Holy Spirit cannot be fooled



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
It is not possible for the elect to be deceived.
The Holy Spirit cannot be fooled


Be careful not to add too many words to Mat 24:24. While the Spirit of Truth cannot be deceived, the mind can be led to listen to another spirit. Never should one think they are immune to manipulation. One should always be on guard against it.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 10:40 PM
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Helen !!!!!!

Do you not read all of Revelations ??? or did you pick what you wanted and left the rest ????

Revelations 20:4

I saw thrones on which were seated thoes who had been given Aythority to Judge. and I saw the Souls of those who had been beheaded because of there Testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not recived the Mark on there forheads or on their hands. they came to life and regned with Christ a thousand years.

20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. this is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection . The second Death has no power over them, but thet will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years..

Now that is yet to come, its not here now. If we were in the 1000 year reign, were are the marters and why was it called the first resurrection....

You are off by more that 1000 years in your stament, I not sure if you understood what you read or not, but I see a number of predictions that you are way off center and need to go back and read again so you will not be telling something to a person that is not True !!!!!!!!!!



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 05:37 AM
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Jfdarby......I have answered that .the 1,000 years reign(not my own interpretations)these questions all came up early in the centuries and the fathers agreed to that the 1,000 years reign is the age we are living in NOW.
I'll post it here again.
quote///In Holy Scripture someones sinful condition is also compared to a kind of death. It is with this meaning that the Saviour says to one of His disciples who had asked leave to first go and bury his father, Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead (Mat. 8:22).
Likewise does He speak with this in mind when saying, He that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live; and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die (Jn. 11:25).
The Apostle also had this meaning in mind when he wrote, reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom. 6:11, 8:10).
Moreover, with this meaning as well is it written to the angel (επίσκοπο) of the Church in Sardis: I know thy works, and that thou hast a name that thou livest, but thou art dead (Rev. 3:1).
This does not,
however,
constitute the first death, as the baptismal resurrection constitutes the first resurrection, considering that this death is a condition that leads to but is not already the fact of death. When we spoke of resurrection and death above we had in mind not merely a condition or state but a specific action or event - of resurrection and of death respectively
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

******************
quote from Dbrandt/// The deception will be great and we would be deceived if we were here, but believers are not.

So believers will bow down to the antichrist. Is that what you are saying? And if they will, how far will that bowing down go, as far as taking the mark of the beast?

I'll throw my guess in on the 2 witnesses. Elijah and the apostle John.

The deception will even come to deceive even the ELECT and if it was not for God we would all be deceived......so He makes time go quick and the suffering will be over sooner then we think!

quote/the Saviour Himself has told us,
together with the "false prophets" of that time,
shall show great signs and wonders,
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect (Matt. 24:24).
And the "elect" are certainly not those multitudes of people who are coming to accept the gross and most unscriptural delusion that "the world is on the threshold of a great spiritual awakening,
" but rather the "little flock" to which alone our Saviour has promised: It is your Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom (Luke 12:32).
Even the true "elect" will be sorely tempted by the "great signs and wonders" of antichrist; but most "Christians" will accept him without any question,
for his "New Christianity" is precisely what they seek.

The Second Coming of Christ will be unmistakable: it will be sudden, from heaven (Acts 1:11), and it will mark the end of this world........and after that Judgement .
the "thousand years" of Grace in the Church of Christ (is now )(Apoc. 20:3)
spiritual deception so persuasive as to "deceive, if it were possible, even the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).
promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18),
and that for the sake of the elect He will cut short the days of the last great tribulation (Matt. 24:22).
And in truth, "If God be for us, who can be against us?" (Rom. 8:31).
Even in the midst of the cruelest temptations,
we are commanded to be of good cheer; I have overcome the world (John 16:33).
Let us live, even as true Christians of all times have lived, in expectation of the end of all things and the coming of our dear Saviour; for "He that giveth testimony of these things saith: Surely I come quickly. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus" (Apoc. 22:20).
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

Dbrandt/some fathers do say that Moses will also appear and some say St John the theologian as well......for their bodies were not found......according to teachings of tradition....Moses and Elijah especially held by the Jews as well.

Yes dbrandt, some will go to the extremes of getting the mark of the beast.
WHY?
because of FOOD(that's why Christ told his Apostles to fast and pray...''for man does not live on bread alone''first praise God and then fill our fleshy needs.(again this is from the Old Testament starting in Genesis .....this will be the greatest test on all Christians and the world....actual prophecy foretold that this will happen.

Jfdarby//
I do read revelation but I also heed the words of the fathers and their explanation of being of ''one mind' with each other ...

quote/here it is said that an Angel descended from heaven and bound satan for a thousand years and that the souls of those beheaded for their witness of Jesus Christ and the word of God came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
"This is the first resurrection,"
says the book of Revelation (Rev. 20:5).
"When the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations" (Rev. 20:7-8).
Soon there follows the judgment of the devil and of those who were deceived by him.
The dead will be raised up and judged according to their deeds: "... And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire … This is the second death" (Rev. 20:14-15).
Upon those who have been resurrected in the first resurrection, however, the second death will have no power.

It is important to understand that the 20th chapter of the book of Revelation does not introduce any new teaching about the end of the world and the Second Coming of Christ.
Its purpose is to summarize the battle between the devil and the Church which permeates the whole history of mankind.
The devil is defeated twice: first spiritually, by the redemptive death of the Savior, and at the end of the world, completely and finally, when he will be thrown into the lake of fire. Christian martyrs began to celebrate their victory over satan immediately following their death for Christ.

www.orthodoxphotos.com...

jake//It is not possible for the elect to be deceived.
The Holy Spirit cannot be fooled

It is possible jake,.....for Christ tells us that although we will beleive in Christ we will also ''suffer'' .....
as the Lord predicted: "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake; and then many will be offended,
will betray one another,
and will hate one another." So that even "brother will betray brother to death,
and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
And you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake … But he who endures to the end shall be saved" (Mt. 24:9-10; Mrk. 13:12-13; Lk. 21:16)

If He is telling us that we are to ''endure'' all the suffering to the end, then He means that we too will be here to see all the prosecutions like it happened in the early persecutions of Christians....they too had to die in order to come to the resurrection....like a seed dies and when it is planted it becomes all new and alive again.
the Savior warned His disciples:
"Take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness,
and cares of this life,
and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth" (Lk. 21:34-36).
www.orthodoxphotos.com...
I.X
helen
If I can add one more thing...
"if those days should not be shortened for the sake of the elect,
no flesh would be saved" (Matt. 24.22).

[edit on 5/31/2005 by helen670]



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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His name is "Israel"

He has surnamed himself last year by this name, according to Isaiah 44:5:

.....and another shall subscribe [with] his hand unto the LORD, and surname [himself] by the name of Israel.

He is located in southern Wisconsin, USA.
He has blond hair.
He will magnify the Law again.

He will go in the spirit of Moses and will lead God's redeemed to the true Jerusalem, to Mt. Zion.(understand where this is)

Behold, I have told you. If these words are not true, let me be disciplined.
-sjc



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by jake1997
It is not possible for the elect to be deceived.
The Holy Spirit cannot be fooled


Be careful not to add too many words to Mat 24:24. While the Spirit of Truth cannot be deceived, the mind can be led to listen to another spirit. Never should one think they are immune to manipulation. One should always be on guard against it.


Yeah I know.

I was trying to rephrase ' if it were possible' so that the meaning could shine through magnified.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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I thought the Bible mentioned 2 Prophets that will come during the Tribulation to HELP the left behind Christians and Those who came to the Faith during the Tribualtion ??? I guess im wrong.........:shk:



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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Helen !!!!!!!!

So now you are still saying that we are in the 1000 year Reign of Christ Now
Ok, if so that means that Satan is bound now ( You have to tell me how long Satan has been Bound for up to now so I will know when his time is up and there will be Sin in the world again)))))))) and that means if Saten is Bound up now,, Where is all the sin coming from now, thats in the world..

another thing that shoots you Down is when we enter the 1000 year reign with Christ, We will not age at all.. If you are 45 years old when the Reign starts and you are there, at the end of the Reign you will only 1045 years old...

I already feel that old by x2 but I know that this is not the Thousand year Reign of Christ NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 07:13 PM
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The lion isnt laying down with the lamb either.
The swords are not bent into plows

You may as well goto that website and argue with the static web page.
She will not 'hear' your answer. She will only look for what they say about it and paste it back.

Good luck

I will help anyone who wants help. Send me a PM.

Im out



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 10:45 PM
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where is all the sin coming from?
It is free will......people do sin you know!
The numbers in Revelation are not to be taken all literall....
quote/
he idea of a Messianic Kingdom comes from Jewish thought: Genesis 2:2, Isaiah 65, Daniel 7, 2 Baruch 29 & 40, 1 Enoch 91 & 93, 2 Enoch 32 & 33 (where the concept of the present world consists of 7 "days" of 1000 years each; the 7th 1000-year — i.e., millennial — Day of Rest precedes the final 8th Day — the eternal age), 2 Esdras 7, etc.

This biblical concept specifically refers to the concept of a physical, material, real, actual, and thus literal kingdom where God and His Christ bring the evil and degenerate age to an end.
(I.e., the Messiah who will come and set up the New Age.) Characteristics of this Messianic Age will be no more sickness, sorrow, sighing or death for God’s faithful people. It will be a reign of bliss.

This Messianic Age comes into Christian thought first through the teaching of the Savior Himself in the four Gospels.
But He does not identify it with a specific number of years. However, in the twentieth chapter of the Apocalypse, St. John the Theologian stresses 1000 years (a “millennium”). We know, however, that not all numbers in the Apocalypse are meant to be taken literally — as with the Psalms (esp. Ps. 90.) and other places in the Holy Scriptures.
Numbers can (and often do) have symbolic, spiritual and theological significance rather than a literal significance.

If one thinks that he is without sin God help him!
Im not the one that is arguing with the church......I agree with the church as the Holy spirit is there.....one body as Christ said..he did not split His body up...Christ also speaks of His body that of the church..
quote/""THERE IS ONE BODY,AND ONE SPIRIT,EVEN AS YE ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING:ONE LORD,ONE FAITH ,ONE BABTISM,ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL,.WHO IS ABOVE ALL,AND THROUGH ALL,AND IN YOU ALL.""Ephesians.4:6)it is not divided into different Christian sects,doing as what one wants.....
www.orthodoxinfo.com...
......
the body is not DIVIDED and the holy spirit abides in the Church.
If one looks at the thousands of Christian Sects around and all the different information where does one look for the truth?
''TELL IT TO THE CHURCH""Matt.18:17)Why would Christ say THIS...TELL IT TO THE CHURCH..what else did he mean?
The CHURCH WAS CALLED.....The pillar of TRUTH 1Tim.3:15)
The promise of the CHURCH NOT DEFECTING,WITHOUT BLEMISH (Ephesians.5:27)

"Trust in the Lord and lean not to thine own understanding (Prov. 3:5)
for knowledge puffeth up (I Cor. 8:1), as the Apostle says

Just as the Apostles in the Book of Acts,
Chapter 15 asked for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in addressing issues regarding the teachings of Christ,(this also we must do)
their successors-the bishops-held councils in order to decide what is true and what is false. It was within these councils that the Orthodox Church began to form its doctrine; always guided by the Holy Spirit.

So if Christ Himself appointed the Apostles and they appointed Bishops as it were in the Old testament, why do you people go interpreting scripture based on other source that is not relevant.

Christ said He came not to change the Old laws but so that they will be fullfilled.
God came as man and showed the Apostles how they were to teach His teachings......The Son of God prayed to His father so that we as man can understand that this is how we were to pray to Him.

"Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are detained."
"As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
This was the commencement of the Spirit, which was essential for the strengthening of the apostolic assembly.
With that breathing, all the Apostles were given the power to absolve sins, which was previously promised to Peter — for professing Christ as the Living Son of God (Mat. 16:19) — as well as to the other Apostles (Mat. 18:18).

what im trying to say is that , since Christ appointed the Apostles and they appointed others and the others others.......this is in succesion of Christ who is the Head of the Church ....the Church does not Lie.
The explanation of the 1,000 yrs is simple......from the first resurrection to the judgement of the world.

I.X
helen



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
"Trust in the Lord and lean not to thine own understanding (Prov. 3:5)
for knowledge puffeth up (I Cor. 8:1), as the Apostle says


No disrespect intended, but when someone has to take words of a partial verse and place them with another partial verse, there is something lacking with the "truth" they are trying to relay to another.

1Cor 8:1-2
Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Pro 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.


I add the following for further clarification:

Psa 32:8-9
I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye. Be ye not as the horse, [or] as the mule, [which] have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.


God does not require blind faith. He wants us to understand the Truth. This understanding only comes through trust and love of God.


the Church does not Lie.


While I will not say the Church does lie, I would leave you with these warnings:

1Th 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Jer 7:4
Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, [are] these.



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
If one thinks that he is without sin God help him!
Im not the one that is arguing with the church......I agree with the church as the Holy spirit is there.....one body as Christ said..he did not split His body up...Christ also speaks of His body that of the church..
the body is not DIVIDED and the holy spirit abides in the Church.
If one looks at the thousands of Christian Sects around and all the different information where does one look for the truth?
''TELL IT TO THE CHURCH""Matt.18:17)Why would Christ say THIS...TELL IT TO THE CHURCH..what else did he mean?
The CHURCH WAS CALLED.....The pillar of TRUTH 1Tim.3:15)
The promise of the CHURCH NOT DEFECTING,WITHOUT BLEMISH (Ephesians.5:27)

"



The church is individuals who have accepted Christ as Savior. They then have the Holy Spirit come and dwell in them individually and each have a personal relationship with Christ.

The way you present the church is that it the religious institution. That it is the system, and since you are orthodox, the orthodox ways and rules. It comes across that it is not individuals in Christ. If that is what you are saying, that is wrong.



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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Helen said---what im trying to say is that , since Christ appointed the Apostles and they appointed others and the others others.......this is in succesion of Christ who is the Head of the Church ....the Church does not Lie.


Ahhh ---- but after Christ -- they were all humans -- and humans are fallible and not only do they lie but they make mistakes in judgement and often are out to only better themselves and their ideals.

This has sort of gone off the topic -- but I am really enjoying the debate.



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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Helen !!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]

So You are telling ME that the Greek Forfathers tore the Bible all the peces because it Just didn't tell the truth Right....

Well::::: Why have I wasting my time for most of my life to learn the word of God and now I find that what is told to me by the Holy Spirit in Your words have been just a lie to me..

I have never seen a Greek Church as far as I know and no one ran out and told me that I am all wrong and the written Bible is all wrong to....

No Way,,, Now I know what Paul ment when he said not to let women Teach or lead in the Study of the Word !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jun, 1 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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satan is certainly not bound yet. Christians still have three enemies. The world, the flesh and satan. Thank God that He gave us His spirit and really thank God He will never leave us nor forsake us.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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jfdarby said No Way,,, Now I know what Paul ment when he said not to let women Teach or lead in the Study of the Word !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh dear -- I hope that was only in the heat of the moment and now that you have had a chance to calm down you might feel differently. And to go along with that thought alone how do you know that Helen might not be parroting what she has been taught by a man
Not that I think that Helen just making a point.

But let's all take a deep breath -- type any heated response and then preview it and make whatever changes are necessary to make it a tad less heated ok. I am enjoying this debate and would hate to see it get closed or to see anyone get warns just because they are passionate about something. We can keep things calm and still make our points I am sure.

thanks
jm



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