Nukes best thing that happend to Japan.

My question would be:

Do you think they would have used it on us if they had had it and been able to drop it?

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Do you think they would have used it on us if they had had it and been able to drop it?

Well lets look at the track record, the Japanese war machine:

1. Tried to set fire to our forests in the Northwest

2. Dissected American and British POWS alive not to mention forcing them to do concentration camp esque bridge construction.

3. Killed 300,000 people in Nanking, sometimes by raping a woman until she bled to death.

4. Jumped off cliffs rather than face defeat at the hands of American landing forces.

Would they have dropped it on us? The momment they had a chance.

The way the Japanese treated allied and chinese POWs was just Inhumaine.Surrender in their eyes was a great shame and POWs were not treated as fit to live in their eyes
POW

They would have use a Atomic bomb on us in a heartbeat if they had one

I too think they would have used it against us if they had had it and been able to get it here.

The truth is, someone had to be the first to use a nuke, and yes, there had to be a first. If a technology exists, it will be used, at least once.

My belief is that Truman didn't actually understand what was involved and that he really didn't grasp the orders of magnitutude in which this would be different from conventional weapons.

I think perhaps it has been both the worst and the best thing to happen to Japan. The horror of it is uncontested, but could any other event have so mortified the Japanese people (and the rest of the world) that they would totally turn away from a history of constant warfare and become the economic powerhouse that they have made themselves into?

Don't forget, another "unstated" reason for dropping the A-bomb's was to show the soviet union our new "toy" as a hint what we could do ....

That is true, and if we hadn't dropped it someone else eventually would have. The Pandora's Box of High Technology cannot be closed, just hidden away from those who would abuse it.

Originally posted by Tassadar
Alright FM, one of knowledge,

Those were atomic bombs used in Japan. The first nuclear weapon wasn't invented until 1957, and rigorous testing began in the 1960's. A nuclear weapon has never been used on any country in agression or defense, ever, in history.

They're both considered nukes. I've already been on your side of the argument before, and lost. They're nukes alright. I had to admit I was wrong, and I don't do that often.

Originally posted by Damned
They're both considered nukes. I've already been on your side of the argument before, and lost. They're nukes alright. I had to admit I was wrong, and I don't do that often.

You are absolutely correct, however the original post that was quoted was made on 6/8/2003, more than a year ago (it's on the first page of the thread) and the member that made it hasn't been active for over a month. Yes, it is a bit annoying when people bandy about the various myths, and urban legends of "Nuclear Weapons", and to try to "Deny Ignorance" here's a little something: for those who just love the thought of splitting the atom (or sticking them together for that matter). Before going to this site I would like to warn those who think pictures of mushroom clouds, and craters is an explanation of the sweet science of "physics packages"; this site is not for you (icky things like formulas, charts, quantum theory). This is perhaps the best, most comprehensive dissemination of the how�s, and why�s, of nuclear weapon development this side of a government program that I have found. Enjoy, and may the man-made sun always be at your back (and sufficiently downrange).

Actually, that was one of the sources my opponent used against me. I know when I've been proven wrong, and conceded after I did the research.

BTW, that's an interesting avatar.

[edit on 12-7-2004 by Damned]

Originally posted by Damned
BTW, that's an interesting avatar.

Thanks, just me out on the town, after a hard day of pounding out posts at ATS. That "Deny Ignorance" thing sure does make me thirsty, and I always like a "beer with a view". Monkey out.

We need to clarify something here.

Hiroshima was nuked along with several other cities. Nagasaki for one. Dying in an atomic holocaust is totally different to dying in an "honest" war. I've been to the Hiroshima Peace Museum and seen first hand the effects, accounts etc. and my life has never been the same.

Nobody here has the right to say our actions were justified unless they have seen the blind, hairless zombies with limbs hanging off desparately crying out for "Mizu" to quench their dealthly thirst. Desparate for water. Hundreds of THOUSANDS dying in an instant. Then hundreds of thousands more die over the course of several weeks.

Americas 9/11 was NOTHING by comparison. It would have to happen at least 100 times over (if you work out the numbers) all in ONE SECOND to even come CLOSE. And then about 20 times a week for two months to compare with the kind of scale.

I can never forgive my own country, or the West for their hand in this terrible and totally UNFORGIVABLE affair. I know it probably [statistically] saved lives in the long run, but I certainly would rather die and be invaded by an enemy I can see, and kill: fairly. Than to be wiped out in such amazing rainbow-shades of complete unfairness.

Originally posted by thefraj
We need to clarify something here.

Hiroshima was nuked along with several other cities. Nagasaki for one. Dying in an atomic holocaust is totally different to dying in an "honest" war. I've been to the Hiroshima Peace Museum and seen first hand the effects, accounts etc. and my life has never been the same.

There were two cities that were "nuked" (a euphemism far more appropriate for a frozen burrito than a city), Hiroshima, and Nagasaki constitute a pair, not several, unless you have some information that the rest of the world is ignorant of... please share.

I can never forgive my own country, or the West for their hand in this terrible and totally UNFORGIVABLE affair. I know it probably [statistically] saved lives in the long run, but I certainly would rather die and be invaded by an enemy I can see, and kill: fairly. Than to be wiped out in such amazing rainbow-shades of complete unfairness.

You seem to be consumed with the concept that war needs to be "fair" or "honest", this is both naive, and dangerous. The thought that war could ever be palatable by possessing noble qualities is precisely the mindset that creates the current quagmires afflicting the world. War should be the most horrific man made cataclysm possible, anything less would create a perception of acceptability and therefore the likelihood of such a path being taken.

Perhaps you should broaden your knowledge of recent military atrocities NOT committed by the US, nor strategically saving lives. The "Rape of Nan King", the bombing of Warsaw, "The Battle of Britain", "The Siege of Leningrad" (ask yourself how many Hiroshima/Nagasaki�s it would take to kill 1.1 million?). It's easy to demonize a particular event because it's historic, and unique in method, but callous to the total of 50 million dead in World War Two.






[edit on 28/7/2004 by Mirthful Me]

Heres a little info I posted before in regards to Japans use of WMDs in a WWII attack on the Phillipines:

January 30th 1948

It has now become evident that the Japanese attack on Manila included a biological aspect. Thousands of sick people have begun to flood Manila hospitals, many showing clear signs of bubonic plague and some other highly lethal infection. A few, the worst cases, have already begun to die.

February 2nd 1948

With thousands now dead on Luzon from the plague and what has now been identified as anthrax, the U.S. publicly confirms what has been rumored for several days and promises to "hold Japan accountable for its actions". The mass movement of people fleeing Manila has forced the U.S. to quarantine the city, resulting in several instances of rioting and looting as well as clashes between civilians and U.S./Philippine troops enforcing the quarantine. In the countryside around Manila, the plague has taken hold and is flourishing in the squalid camps established by refugees from the city. The U.S. begins shipping massive amounts of medical aid to the area, but there is simply not enough antibiotics to treat everyone.

In the end, some 15,000 Philippine civilians on Luzon will die from inhalation anthrax within the first few days after the Japanese raid and another 50,000 or so will die of the plague in the weeks and months after the raid, putting the total casualties at some 75,000 killed in the immediate weeks following the attack and three times that number wounded or otherwise weakened. Persisting anthrax spores and plague-infected rodents will continue to account for thousands of deaths for years to come. The attack has a psychological 'terror' effect that goes beyond the actual physical deaths.

Info from:www.geocities.com...

Anybody think they wouldnt have done this to NYC if they had the chance? Was this "honest" warfare?



[edit on 27-7-2004 by 27jd]

I think we can also save the kikes from the right wing Zionist elements who've hijacked the domestic and foreign policy agenda of Israel by nukin' 'em!

We can also save America from the very same state sponsored Zionist/JUDEO-Christian terrorists who've been bombing and invading nation after nation with impunity for many decades by nuking them also.

Think of the countless lives that'll be saved by nukin' both of these countries and allowing their domestic peace factions to gain control of their nations' foreign policy.

Works for me

Let's not waste another moment and get to it! Let the nukes FLY



[edit on 27-7-2004 by neomoniker]

Let's save even more lives by nukin' the war mongering Kike International Bankers in Zurich, Switzerland, and the City of London, who orchestrate and profit from designer war and misery, too! That'll save countless millions who fall victim to death by starvation, disease, ethnic strife, unilateral acts of hostile aggression, economic explotation, wage slavery, poverty, etc., around the globe.

Let's nuke 'em all!

[edit on 28-7-2004 by neomoniker]

You were trying to save Allied SOLDIERS lives by killing upwards of 700,000 civilians?

Soldiers are paid to fight and die. Civilians aren't.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are stains on the history of the world, and was UNNECESSARY. The war was over, Japan was capitulating.

The bomb was predominantly used to show the USSR that once WWII was officially over, they couldn't screw around.

And this message came at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Your US history books are full of lies on this, and if you agree that it was necessary, you are either misinformed, or a piece of vile scum with no respect for human life.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are stains on the history of the world, and was UNNECESSARY. The war was over, Japan was capitulating.

Oh, by capitulating do you mean mobilizing 1 million more soldiers and 3000 kamikaze pilots for the anticipated invasion of the home islands by Allied forces?

The bomb was predominantly used to show the USSR that once WWII was officially over, they couldn't screw around.

And this message came at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Your US history books are full of lies on this, and if you agree that it was necessary, you are either misinformed, or a piece of vile scum with no respect for human life.

Give it up ignoramus. Your idea of intelligence is not being factual, it's being anti-American at every opportunity. Far more German civilians were killed in WWII than Japanese (2 million vs 350,000), but people like you only seem to raise a stink when it comes to the bomb, and maybe to race.

I'm also wondering, do they write anything in your history books about Order in Council PC 1486?

Eastern_Diamondback:

Give it up ignoramus.

Um, no.

idea of intelligence is not being factual, it's being anti-American at every opportunity.

Is it my fault if the facts themselves end up showing the US to be a bunch of murderous turdknockers? Nope.

Far more German civilians were killed in WWII than Japanese (2 million vs 350,000), but people like you only seem to raise a stink when it comes to the bomb, and maybe to race.

Sure. Dresden was also a war crime but we're talking about Japan, try to keep up and on topic.

www.ihr.org...

In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86 Journal, pp. 508-512.)

This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor. Specifically, the terms of these peace overtures included:

Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
Surrender of designated war criminals.
Is this memorandum authentic? It was supposedly leaked to Trohan by Admiral William D. Leahy, presidential Chief of Staff. (See: M. Rothbard in A. Goddard, ed., Harry Elmer Barnes: Learned Crusader [1968], pp. 327f.) Historian Harry Elmer Barnes has related (in "Hiroshima: Assault on a Beaten Foe," National Review, May 10, 1958):

The authenticity of the Trohan article was never challenged by the White House or the State Department, and for very good reason. After General MacArthur returned from Korea in 1951, his neighbor in the Waldorf Towers, former President Herbert Hoover, took the Trohan article to General MacArthur and the latter confirmed its accuracy in every detail and without qualification.

So, um, you know, read that and learn something. You don't even have to apologize for being wrong.

Yes Jakomo, everything we do here in the USA is pure evil, we all worship Satan and thirst for the blood of innocent civilians across the globe. We didnt need to drop the bomb, no, we just thought it would look cool. Why waste all that good nuclear energy in the NV desert? And boy, the looks on those Soviets faces were priceless! In all seriousness Jakomo, youre like the opposite of Fox news, I havent seen one of your posts with anything even remotely positive about America. So what about the bio attack on the Phillipines? That wasnt a vile lack of regard for innocent life? I dont see you denouncing that. No war is necessary, its all wrong. But your assertion is that everything bad today and back then is our fault. Fine. Whatever. I truly dont think you would like or respect us no matter what we do, we could've launched a massive teddy bear bombing and you would denounce it. So, sorry I guess we cannot win your approval, oh well....eh.

[edit on 28-7-2004 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd
I havent seen one of your posts with anything even remotely positive about America.

This is a world-wide site with members everywhere. Does every member need to love the U.S. unconditionally and have the bumper sticker to prove it?

Just THINK about that.