Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

Why don't you get the opinions of those that were decimated by searing heat and raditation. I think they may have been adverse to the idea if they weren't turned into ash when the bombs were unleashed.

America may not have blood on it's hands, but it's leaders (and the leaders of all countries) do...

We are the United States of America!We have been appointed by God's divine message to scour the earth and clense it of those who are impure!

Alright FM, one of knowledge,

Those were atomic bombs used in Japan. The first nuclear weapon wasn't invented until 1957, and rigorous testing began in the 1960's. A nuclear weapon has never been used on any country in agression or defense, ever, in history.

Here the Difference:
Atomic Weapons - Atomic Fission created after conventional trigger heats atoms to required temperature and then splits them. Two explosions occur.

Nuclear Weapons - Nuclear Fission is achieved when when a small conventional explosion accelerates a neutron and it bombards an atom of say, uranium-238. The Uranium is broken into two other elements such as Barium and Krypton while at least three more neutrons are ejected from the original uranium atom and impact into more atoms of uranium. Again, two explosions occur.

I also must disagree with the general consensus on this thread. If you say that, you could, in theory, say that America deserved 9/11, which, I know, they didn't.
*booooo-booooo* Osama bad.

Tassadar

The morality involved with the uses of A-bombs, nukes, etc. will never be fully explained nor ever justified.
It was a mistake and will always be one, no matter the amount of "justifications."

"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking.....the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."

and

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius, and alot of courage, to move in the opposite direction."
-- Albert Einstein--


regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
We are the United States of America!We have been appointed by God's divine message to scour the earth and clense it of those who are impure!

Better nuke yourselves then

My thoughts exactly..

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
Woulda, shoulda, coulda...

Why don't you get the opinions of those that were decimated by searing heat and raditation. I think they may have been adverse to the idea if they weren't turned into ash when the bombs were unleashed.

America may not have blood on it's hands, but it's leaders (and the leaders of all countries) do...

millions more woulda died if The US and the Soviet union would have invaded Japan. the civilians would of killed them selfes and there would be fanatical resistance by the IJA! its one of those decisions like have 1 die or 100 die. it had to be done.

Yeah...sure it did...

I still thinkit was a bad idea.

Peace negotiations were possible.
Hitler was already dead,
let the Europeans stabilize themselves.

We had already sunk the Yamato fleet.
Where was the threat?
*gets out binoculars and looks outside, looks in history books, and looks as Japan 50 years ago*
There was no threat.

Disappointed with U.S.,
Tassadar

Dropping the First Atomic Bomb

At 2:45 A.M. local time, the Enola Gay, a B-29 bomber loaded with an atomic bomb, took off from the US air base on Tinian Island in the western Pacific. Six and a half hours later, at 8:15 A.M. Japan time, the bomb was dropped and it exploded a minute later at an estimated altitude of 580 +- 20 meters over central Hiroshima.

The Hiroshima Bomb
Size: length - 3 meters, diameter - 0.7 meters.
Weight: 4 tons.
Nuclear material: Uranium 235.
Energy released: equivalent to 12.5 kilotons of TNT.
Code name: "Little Boy".

Initial Explosive Conditions
Maximum temperature at burst point: several million degrees centigrade. A fireball of 15-meters radius formed in 0.1 millisecond, with a temperature of 300,000 degrees centigrade, and expanded to its huge maximum size in one second. The top of the atomic cloud reached an altitude of 17,000 meters.

Black Rain
Radioactive debris was deposited by "black rain" that fell heavily for over an hour over a wide area.

Demaging Effects of the Atomic Bomb
Thermal Hear. Intense thermal heat emitted by the fireball caused severe burns and loss of eyesight. Thermal burns of bare skin occurred as far as 3.5 kilometers from ground zero (directly below the burst point). Most people exposed to thermal rays within 1-kilometer radius of ground zero died. Tile and glass melted; all combustible materials were consumed.
Blast. An atomic explosion causes an enormous shock wave followed instanteneously by a rapid expansion of air called the blast; these represent roughtly half the explosion's released energy. Maximum wind pressure of the blast: 35 tons per square meter. Maximum wind velocity: 440 meters per second. Wooden houses within 2.3 kilometers of ground zero collapsed. Concrete buildings near ground zero (thus hit by the blast from above) had ceilings crushed and windows and doors blown off. Many people were trapped under fallen strunctures and burned to death.
Radiation. People exposure within 500 meters of ground zero was fatal. People exposed at distances of 3 to 5 kilometers later showed symptoms of aftereffects, including radiation-induced cancers.

Bodily Injuries
Acute symptoms. Symptoms appearing in the first four months were called acute. Besides burns and wounds, they included: general malaise, fatigue, headaches, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, fever, abnormally low white blood cell count, bloody discharge, anemia, loss of hair.

Aftereffects. Prolonged injuries were associated with aftereffects. The most serious in this category were: keloids (massive scar tissue on burned areas), cataracts, leukemia and other cancers.

Atomic Demographics
Population. The estimated pre-bomb population was 300,000 to 400,000. Because official documents were burned, the exact population is uncertain.
Deaths. With an uncertain population figure, the death toll could only be estimated. According to data submitted to the United Nations by Hiroshima City in 1976, the death count reached 140,000 (plus or minus 10,000) by the end of December, 1945.

Health Card Holders. Persons qualifying for treatment under the A-bomb Victims Medical Care law of 1957 received Health Cards; holders as of March 31, 1990, numbered 352,550.

Nagasaki. The atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki exploded at 11:02 A.M. on August 9. Using plutonium with an explosive power of 20 kilotons of TNT-equivalent, it left an estimated 70,000 dead by the end of 1945, although both population and the deaths are uncertain.


If we had not dropped the bomb Americans would be eating fishhead soup if even that.

All's fair in love and war, too bad we didn't drop more!

Aw, Cmon....No matter what benefits arose out of the bombing of Japan, nothing can make up for the loss of over 200,000 innocent lives. Hiroshima was an evil act no matter how you look at it.

There was no other way. It was either bomb the Japs or invade them. Millions of Allied soldeirs would've died during the invasion. The war would've dragged on for eyars the Japs would fight until everyone of them was dead. Bombing 200,000 people saved millions more.

[Edited on 8-6-2003 by JediMaster]

For anyone who says it was a good idea obviously have no concern for other peoples lives. If it were you or your family that was caught in that horrible incident, you'd be singing a completely different tune...

For the ones who say bomb bad.

Japenese innocent civilians? Hahahahaha!!!! They were training with guns, knives, sticks, anything to ready themselves for an invasion. The people were trainging their kids to fight. The women were even learning how to fight with weapons.

And peace negotiations? Hello, we told them to end the war or we would end it for them. We told them to please surrender or we would do something. They didn't listen, so we held up are end of the deal.

Third, let's see, invade with human lives, kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of their soilders(including civilians for they were training/trained to fight) along with losing hundreds of thousands if not millions of Ally soilders and civillians when Japan attacked again, or drop one bomb and end it. That's right, one! We planned on one, but they wouldn't surrender, so we dropped another one.

I'm sorry, drop two bombs and save millions and end a war. Don't lose miilions/millions and prolong a war that costs both sides a shiznick load of money, humans, and resources.

The bomb was the quick, life saving, and war ending solution.

So are we James,

We're just going to have to hold off the NWO.
That's the difference.

Ask the people who died if they're hapy they died?
If they were alive and weren't imprints on walls and streets, they'd probably sa they id't appreciate it.

Tassadar

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
For anyone who says it was a good idea obviously have no concern for other peoples lives. If it were you or your family that was caught in that horrible incident, you'd be singing a completely different tune...

Obviously YOU dont have any concern for Allied soldiers lives. It SAVED more lives than it took. I would never look at the bombings as a 'positive' event. However they were not evil either. It ended the war. It saved lives. Look at history if you dont believe me. You have no evidence to support that position.

I usually try to avoid this debate but.......
If those bombs were not dropped by the US at that time when where and who would have ended up dropping the first ones? Do any of you think the USSR would have been as lenient when the program they had running was finished? The act of dropping those bombs served TWO purposes.
1. End the war with the Japanese quickly with minimum loss of allied lives.
2. Scare the hell out of the world to the point that no one has used another since in anger.

I agree that it really stinks that so many "innocents" had to die. At the same time I think overall it DID save lives in the end.
As far as there being "no threat". That's what the europeans said about Hitler. Enough said. Appeasement was NOT going to work in this case. As was stated earlier here, we dropped one and waited, they refused to give up. We had no other choice but to restate our determination. It worked.
Another thing.
Japan made out pretty well out of the whole deal (as a country). Yes they lost a number of civilians but nowhere near what the Polish and Russians lost. They DID however have the allies to come in and prop them up afterwards and make them one of the strongest economies in the 20th century (unlike Poland and Russia).

I'm not trying to be heartless here. I just state what I know and believe. If the Bombs had not been dropped the casualty numbers would have been much higher on both sides from conventional warfare.

it was planned, plotted, and celebrated by the same bastards screwing things up now.

the original plan was probably to decimate one of their fleet yards, but it was poo-pooed by Truman and his puppet cabinet.

all the pilots of the Enola Gay, the ship that dropped the bomb, regret the incident and are totally remorseful for the japanese people.

it was a very cheap and dishonorable way to end a war, and if you put the shoe on the other foot, would you accept the idea of a nuke decimating everything ...say... NYC... thus eradicating those that encourage evil and ruthless domination of humanity? i strongly doubt that anyone would be gracious for such a horrible catastrophe.

just think about that and use empathy if you can, please.


judging by your name, this is probably like talking to a wall but worth a shot for the others

[Edited on 8/6/2003 by AlnilamOmega]

[Edited on 8/6/2003 by AlnilamOmega]

Ofcourse I wouldnt be happy if some one nuked Washington and NewYork. However if they did durring war, and we had started the war. There was no chance of us surrendering. Then I think history would support them. They would be doing it to save THIER peoples lives.