A message from General Patton's ghost-WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES

Edit for dbl post

[edit on 5/26/05 by Kidfinger]

Originally posted by edsinger

Live in your dreamworld for all I give a sht, I at least have a clue of the world around me.

Get over yourself Ed. You are not worth my time. We have been through this before and you still refuse to even think with one ounce or iota of reason or logic. Please put me on your ignore list. I would be honored....

Originally posted by edsinger

Crap is only a matter of opinion and I don't feel that way. What I said was true.
I ALSO SERVED MY COUNTRY, and I know damn good and well this Tulipwalker mentality that is so prevalent in here would not last 'in service'. You mock the Commander in Chief, the policies, and the Administration and on what basis? What you hear in Newsweek and on CBS?

Well if you served, then you would understand that it is not as meets the press's eye. Its cool to sit back and bitch and whine about an illegal war when you know damn good and well that Saddam was NOT living up to the how many resolutions and that alone was merit to go in, but alas it was not the reason now was it? No, as someone has already pointed out to you, the war was already started before 911, 911 was the straw that broke the camels back.

Live in your dreamworld for all I give a sht, I at least have a clue of the world around me.

What do you sugest then ed?
Just keep invadeing random countries?
Invade iran next?
Invade pakistan?
Hell might as well give korea another bash since we didnt finish it the last time, eh? How about that?

Why is it that just about every thread looks the same after the first couple posts? They all seem to evolve into a brass balls, war-mongering "conservatives" vs. tree hugging, hyper-intellectual "liberals" mud dragging, almost instantly. Is anybody here actually trying to make the other side see their light constructively, or is everybody happy just droning on and on about how brainless and blood thirsty those who support the war are, or how spineless and terrorist-loving those who are against it are? As mentioned before, emotions have a lot to do with it, so does intellect. Generally, as I see it, those who are "pro-war" do seem to ignore facts, and run off of raw emotion quite a bit more than those who are "anti-war", who seem to ignore emotions and rely more on what they see as facts, but probably have a pre-existing dislike for authority of any kind and if it weren't for the war would be protesting something else. I think as humans we're supposed to maintain a balance between emotion and thought, and not be so one dimensional. All I know is, in all the threads I've read, I have yet to see one where a "liberal" or "conservative" has taken in an opposing view and realized they were wrong and changed their mind. So there's one thing everybody here seems to have in common, everybody is stubborn.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
I have always respected your post so I'll turn the sarcasm off here.

Honestly KF and all the other posters, I like to play the devil's advocate and I certainly respect the opinions. I guess i just like asking hard questions...

You ask what other alternatives we have. Well, first off, we could start practicing what we preach. This 'Paving the way for Democracy' is fine as long as we are doing it for our country. It is none of our business how another country conducts their government unless we are being threatened.

Agreed.

And I dont mean this penny anny BS Im gonna build a nuke too crap. I mean if we are being truly threatened.

Yeah, but then we get into a Cold War deal again. Or a Cuban Missle crisis. I get the idea, but I don't think it would be practical.

Second, it is time to seal up the boarders. To many holes there. It leaves us way to open and invites stupidity; Something Bush cant seem to grasp.

Well, first...I don't think we can. Any security can be breached. Second, every time I cross I have a hell of a time (joke there). Third, everyone screams about trampled rights. Would buttoning the borders tight not just send that through the roof?

Third, we need to withdraw our troops from many foreign bases. As a matter of fact, our whole military needs a shake up in the upper levels.

Not sure I agree. Intel needs a shakeup yes. We got lazy with technology. I agree there. As for troops in other places, well...many countries do that. We are not the only ones. Do we close Embassies too?

There are many other options for us but they all start at home. If we want to change the world, we need to look inward first.

I agreed a bit on this. Yes, lots of internal problems so I agree. I don't agree on looking inward so much though, because that's why many other countries don't like the USA. Americans are too focused on themselves.

When we don't look outward, the world complains too like on day two of the tsunami. The world was pissed because we didn't say how much we were going to give. The world wanted the US to foot most of the bill was the attitude.

Good points though.

Originally posted by 27jd
All I know is, in all the threads I've read, I have yet to see one where a "liberal" or "conservative" has taken in an opposing view and realized they were wrong and changed their mind. So there's one thing everybody here seems to have in common, everybody is stubborn.

Well, I actually did change my mind once. I voted for Bush sr. I fought for him. I swore an oath to him. Yes, at one time I walked on the Dark Side. However, I have been told I am somewhat stubborn once or twice, but I refuse to believe it!

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Please stop spreading lies about Liberals. Thank You.

Oh, wow! I'm spreading lies about liberals?! Is that a Moonbatese language you're speaking?

You are a certifiable moonbat and no true bleeding heart liberal would ever hold a candle to you ever again.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Patton would have slapped Bush in the mouth and told him to sit down because there was no reason for war.

Umm.. The thread was about this very such thing. Kind funny that when a historic figure is used in a way that goes agianst what Russel Crow's original theme was, you get all bent out of shape

The Patton animation was a rousing piece of political-social commentary about the war on terror and the people opposing Bush's approach to the war, however it's your comment about Gen. Patton kicking Bush's behind to make a point stood out as a pure political fantasy that have no bearing on this thread. Sorry, bud, but nice try.

[edit on 5/26/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
What, Bush and Co. have never brought Christianity into it? Never referred to their little adventures as a "crusade"? Please! Most posts taking the side
against the "evil terrorists" (who are no threat to any of us) vent on about their hatred towards muslims. So it's not a question of religion you are saying? Where is the religious tolerance in these posts?

You, sir, aren't exactly a tolerable person.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
I take into consideration some minor racial incidents being blown from mole-hills into mountains to justify what is being done to the muslim population at large. Flushing korans down the jax and the habitual abuse and degradation contrary to their religious traditions of young muslim men in custody of the great benevolant USA. I don't see much difference between the rantings of a few demented mullahs with the spewings of the Christian Right.

What happened to "Turn the other cheek" and "Love thy neighbour"?

See my description of you above. By the way, do you wear horse-blinders daily? Do you wear it mentally as well? Yes? Thought so.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Sure, gloss over any points that don't fit into your simple paradigm of the world. This is no war on terror, but rather a blood-soaked business wrapping itself in red, white and blue nonsense.

Blah, blah, blah..... life must be too easy for you, bud.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I guess i just like asking hard questions...

Well, this wouldnt be ATS if we wernt trying to figure out tough questions now would it? Questions like this are what keeps these discussions on track. Keeps us out of the mud puddles.

Yeah, but then we get into a Cold War deal again. Or a Cuban Missle crisis. I get the idea, but I don't think it would be practical.

Im not sure I agree with the Cold War outcome. How many nukes do we have? 15000+ or something? Even if Iran or anyone els produced a nuke or three, there is still MAD. Unfortunatly living in an age that still sees nuclear weapons as an option, we are going to be stuck with them. So we might as well learn to live with them. We are not the only other country to have nukes so I think that the only outcome would be a second world country that has a greater sense of self preservation. They will always know in the back of there heads that if one nuke ever goes off on American soil, the country responsible would be obliterated.

Second, it is time to seal up the boarders.

Well, first...I don't think we can. Any security can be breached. Second, every time I cross I have a hell of a time (joke there). Third, everyone screams about trampled rights. Would buttoning the borders tight not just send that through the roof?

Well, that depends. Im not talking closing our economic boarder. I am strictly talking our physical boarders. We need to start making it much tougher to become a citizen of the USA. We need to make it much harder for illegals to cross our boarders.

Not sure I agree. Intel needs a shakeup yes. We got lazy with technology. I agree there. As for troops in other places, well...many countries do that. We are not the only ones. Do we close Embassies too?

There just doesnt seem to be the stratigest in command that really knows what they are doing. Storman Norman was the last great General we had.

I agreed a bit on this. Yes, lots of internal problems so I agree. I don't agree on looking inward so much though, because that's why many other countries don't like the USA. Americans are too focused on themselves.

Maybe we should stop worrying what the other countries think of us and we should just try and be a good people/country/government? We will never please everybody all the time, so we should try and be kind and just. Im not saying that all problems would be instantly solved by taking this course of action, but we need to make sure we are acting in a manner which would be benificial to us while not rubbing it in the worlds face. You have got to admit, We as Americans do have a rather large ego, and rightfully so. But that doesnt mean we should inflate it at will.

When we don't look outward, the world complains too like on day two of the tsunami. The world was pissed because we didn't say how much we were going to give. The world wanted the US to foot most of the bill was the attitude.

That was a terrible disaster. I do agree that the world turned rathe quickly to us for help, and the attitude was definatly not warranted. However, we have always been there to bail everyone out before. If you own a cat you know exactly what I am talking about. When it is feeding time, a cat will let you know. After the cat has ate it is off to sun in the widowsill. I guess what I am saying with this is we reapo what we sow.

Thanks for making me think tonite Zedd. I was afraid all I was going to have to do was defend my opinions.

[edit on 5/26/05 by Kidfinger]

Originally posted by the_oleneo

Oh, wow! I'm spreading lies about liberals?! Is that a Moonbatese language you're speaking?

Yes you are. Every time you or your ilk say Liberals hate America or any other of that garbage it is a lie and it makes you a liar.

You are a certifiable moonbat and no true bleeding heart liberal would ever hold a candle to you ever again.

Another lame attempt at a put down.

The Patton animation was a rousing piece of political-social commentary about the war on terror and the people opposing Bush's approach to the war, however it's your comment about Gen. Patton kicking Bush's behind to make a point stood out as a pure political fantasy that have no bearing on this thread. Sorry, bud, but nice try.

[edit on 5/26/2005 by the_oleneo]

My line about Patton was a rousing piece of political-social commentary about the war on terror and the people supporting Bush's approach to the war. By your own logic it looks like I had every right to make that statment.

How about we stop going back and forth and actually attempt to be a little civil here.......

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Well, I actually did change my mind once. I voted for Bush sr. I fought for him. I swore an oath to him. Yes, at one time I walked on the Dark Side. However, I have been told I am somewhat stubborn once or twice, but I refuse to believe it!

You did not swear an oath to Bush personally when you're serving the country. You sworn to the President of the United States, the Commander-in-Chief, not the man (as in George H. W. Bush). Every military personnel and federal personnel swears to the Office of the President, not the person. Even one person gone (Bush Sr) and another person take place (Clinton), you were still sworn to the President of the United States.

What really made you changed?

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Yes you are. Every time you or your ilk say Liberals hate America or any other of that garbage it is a lie and it makes you a liar.

PROVE IT! Prove that I stated that or retract it.


[edit on 5/26/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by the_oleneo


What really made you changed?

Well, I started to see the politics that was happening at the time and I made an informed choice. I didnt like the hypocracy I saw and I was coming fresh out of a war. I longed for peace. I knew I would never get that with the republican party.

Originally posted by the_oleneo

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Yes you are. Every time you or your ilk say Liberals hate America or any other of that garbage it is a lie and it makes you a liar.

PROVE IT!

Prove that I stated that or retract it.


[edit on 5/26/2005 by the_oleneo]

And it appears you need reading lessons as well. Try reading it agian. Especially the part that says "you or your ilk.

I will retract nothing because it is the truth. You dont really want me to go through these pages on ATS and find how many times a republican has said that Liberals hate America. Trust me. I have been dealing with this since I joined ATS almost a year ago.

Well, I think I have had enough with feeding the trolls on this thread. It is painfully obvious that when presented with an opportunity to debate the merits of solutions as brought fourth by Zedd, you would rather argu and bicker and complain. I have better things to do with my time.

Zedd, if you wish to continue our discussion, I would enjoy that. Send me a U2U when you reply because I will be deleting this thread from my active list.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
How about we stop going back and forth and actually attempt to be a little civil here.......

kidfinger, if you wanted to be civil with me, you don't start off by making false accusations about what I think of liberals.

Some of my good friends are liberal and we normally agree to disagree on some issues.

kidfinger
And it appears you need reading lessons as well. Try reading it agian. Especially the part that says "you or your ilk.

"You" come before "or your ilk". You pointed to me before "or your ilk". That is a FALSE accusation. You do not know me well, as much as I do not know you. Fair?

kidfinger
I will retract nothing because it is the truth. You dont really want me to go through these pages on ATS and find how many times a republican has said that Liberals hate America. Trust me. I have been dealing with this since I joined ATS almost a year ago.

Maybe few Republicans said that but that doesn't really reflect on me. I don't speak for the Republican Party nor the GOP speaks for me. They can take care of themselves but don't make a false accusation or a sweeping generalization on me in equation or correlation to other Republicans in this ATS.com site. Understand?

Not all Republicans thinks alike and the same is true for the liberals. As for the moonbats, that's a different story.

The arab Muslim Savages still have not stoped their murderor's for allah. This filth was cuting off the head's of the spainish male soilder's 711 defending their own nation from these filth of arab muslim invaders. 2003 They still have not changed.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Im not sure I agree with the Cold War outcome.

True, I didn't consider the fact of "they/them" having only one or two nukes. Still the way of humans is "I must have more." More money, more power, more everything. I must be smarter, tougher, better than the other person. Just human nature would see to an escalation of power. The goal is to diminish the nukes, so if ultimately we achive that goal...is that a hard road if you don't like the in-between parts? Would we know if we were losing lives only to ultimately save them? Maybe. Then again we could be on a dark path. Odds are either way, there would be another clash of values at one point or another.

Well, that depends. Im not talking closing our economic boarder. I am strictly talking our physical boarders. We need to start making it much tougher to become a citizen of the USA. We need to make it much harder for illegals to cross our boarders.

I was talking the physical borders. It can be breached.

There just doesnt seem to be the stratigest in command that really knows what they are doing. Storman Norman was the last great General we had.

True. Rummy's no chess player.

You have got to admit, We as Americans do have a rather large ego, and rightfully so. But that doesnt mean we should inflate it at will.

Many other countries have egos too. We can't force our values on people which is more of the issue.

That was a terrible disaster. I do agree that the world turned rathe quickly to us for help, and the attitude was definatly not warranted.

Everyone forgot the war and was like "hello? where's the money?" That was kind of funny to see.

Thanks for making me think tonite Zedd.

I was afraid all I was going to have to do was defend my opinions.

A you returned the favor.

And as for defending, well...for us it should be more about understanding right? Then we would truly reap what we sow. That goes for ALL sides.

Originally posted by siriuslyone

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I listen to our Generals on CNN and CBS trying to cover their a**es and I wonder where our fire-breathing Generals of WW-II went to? If General Patton could speak from the grave, here would be his message to us Americans:

www.oldbluejacket.com...

You Canadians and Europeans might wanna take some notes.

Maximu§

Thank you for posting this, I collect militaria and my favorite thing I own is a real Panzer flag.
If guts were a preqequisite, then this man wins hand down.
He will always be one if not the best heroes of ww2.
Stilll being wary if what he thought about the Russians is still to come.