Are the Illuminati and NWO really bad?

My initial perception of the illuminati and the NWO was that they were esentially a power hungry type of organization that is going to put a strangle hold on the world. But after reading into the Illuminati their intentions are to enlighten the world through science and understanding of the universe, as opposed to religious mysticism that has greatly deterred the natural progression and evolution of man, espeically in america which bible belting right wingers.

I mean maybe overthrowing society is a little rash, however if the illuminati do exist within our (american) government and other powerful institutions I for one emplore their efforts.

Hard to say really, I guess what we sould be looking at is people's attide toward change. Most people who think that the illuminati is bad, generally don't have a good outlook for the future. And vise-versa.

The main agenda of the NWO would be unifying the world under one leader/currency/etc. Right? So you be the judge, will it come to millitary pressure, or will be be gently coaxed and manipulated into it, or will we go without argument.

I'm no big fan of the "bible bangers" beleive me, and i think that religion will be absent from the NWO thankfully. So on that note I guess it is a good thing, as long as we don't have to get microchipped, and all that other unpleasness.

Originally posted by Distortion
...espeically in america which bible belting right wingers.

Personally, I could use a couple of "belts" right now... I mean anyone with any experience with the religious right knows that they wear suspenders instead of belts.

In all seriousness, the NWO and Illuminati have given up on NeoCons, they just are the kind of "team players" we need.

New World Order Monkeys, not just for manipulating civilization as we know it anymore...

Wot do the illuminarti and the NWO actually believe in. Is it just uniting everyone under one leader currnecy ect if so then i guess im one

Originally posted by Shenroon
Wot do the illuminarti and the NWO actually believe in. Is it just uniting everyone under one leader currnecy ect if so then i guess im one

Nobody knows, because nobody knows for sure whether or not they exist. In other words, they are thus far just a figment of people's imagination. Therefore people are free to make anything up about them as they wish. Going by the logic used here by some people, I could say that the Illuminati is composed completely of Himalayan Sherpas, and it would be perfectly valid because nobody can prove me wrong. I can't prove myself right, but that obviously doesnt matter.

I don't think that the ideas of the Illuminati are bad ones. However change is never an easy thing and the lengths that the Society will have to go to form a NWO will most likely not be plesant ones. I do like that religion will not play such a role in our government. It seems now days there is no line between government and religion, they have become one in the same. The United States has become a very sad country. Our ancestors came here for freedom and it seems that the freedoms so many people have fought and died for are slowly being taken away.

So while a NWO does make me a little uneasy, maybe it wont be so horrible. One thing is for sure, if anything is going to happen it already is happening and I'm sure that we will be the last to know.

Originally posted by Distortion
I mean maybe overthrowing society is a little rash, however if the illuminati do exist within our (american) government and other powerful institutions I for one emplore their efforts.

Emplore their efforts??? So millions die everyday due to the power hungry politicians, bankers and financial leaders and you emplore this???

But after reading into the Illuminati their intentions are to enlighten the world through science and understanding of the universe.

Its not about enlightenment if they wanted the world to be enlightened wouldn't we live in a better place by now as "they" have been around for a very long time. The reason for this ignorance is so they may play chess with political leaders, pull strings here and then BAM wars, invasions, 3rd world debt, slavery, stock plunges, recessions, economic booms the list continues...

This is the price you pay when you let the banks and monetary systems create money out of thin air so they can pump more money and debt into society so when they pull the plug on the money the system collapses and people lose there jobs due to the companies becoming bankupt and those people have to try and find a way to live so the minority that are unable to obtain another job commit crime then inevitably go to prison they leave prison and they have to commit crime again because they have a criminal record and no one will hire him/her. This is what I like to call "The Money-go-round". The Federal Reserve, The Bank of England, The World Bank, The vatican these are the Illuminati centre of control no politics or laws can touch the people that are in control as they know what is going to happen next, they created the world what it is today known as the countries and nations which religions, cultures and traditions all made up buy the illuminated ones to give impressions one culture is bad and the other is good etc. so they may again play chess with the people of earth it is only when we decide to stop play the game the game will end and humanity will be at peace with itself and maybe other species of beings.

[edit on 9/5/05 by Hunting Veritas]

[edit on 9/5/05 by Hunting Veritas]

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas

Emplore their efforts??? So millions die everyday due to the power hungry politicians, bankers and financial leaders and you emplore this???

Well first I dont see how millions die everyday? I guess if what you're trying to say is that SOME people die because of certain domestic policy I ask how, if they even do exist, the illuminate are behind it. What motive would they have for INTENTIONALLY brining hardship to people. Maybe the results of failure in political and monetary policy are of just regular dumbass politicians.

Its not about enlightenment if they wanted the world to be enlightened wouldn't we live in a better place by now as "they" have been around for a very long time. The reason for this ignorance is so they may play chess with political leaders, pull strings here and then BAM wars, invasions, 3rd world debt, slavery, stock plunges, recessions, economic booms the list continues...

This is the price you pay when you let the banks and monetary systems create money out of thin air so they can pump more money and debt into society so when they pull the plug on the money the system collapses and people lose there jobs due to the companies becoming bankupt and those people have to try and find a way to live so the minority that are unable to obtain another job commit crime then inevitably go to prison they leave prison and they have to commit crime again because they have a criminal record and no one will hire him/her. This is what I like to call "The Money-go-round". The Federal Reserve, The Bank of England, The World Bank, The vatican these are the Illuminati centre of control no politics or laws can touch the people that are in control as they know what is going to happen next, they created the world what it is today known as the countries and nations which religions, cultures and traditions all made up buy the illuminated ones to give impressions one culture is bad and the other is good etc. so they may again play chess with the people of earth it is only when we decide to stop play the game the game will end and humanity will be at peace with itself and maybe other species of beings.

Maybe the right opportunity for them to step forward is not here yet. Think about America as a whole, still the majority of Americans believe in religion and make decisions based on their beliefs. Since we operate in an Representative Democracy (For the most part) the Illuminate and NWO or whatever dont have the support they need to be able to take complete control. I've seen it said many times on this board that the NWO can come to power whether or not the people support them. This simply cannot happen, its simply bull#. Governments derive their power from the people. Sure they could take control by force but that control would not last for long. It's economics, if we dont pay taxe's our government fails.

Also I dont see how the FED creates money out of thin air and create debt. Can you elaborate on this concept please?


[edit on 10-5-2005 by Distortion]

[edit on 10-5-2005 by Distortion]

I'm sorry, Distortion, you are from where?
You see, I state where I am from as I have nothing to hide, nor am I afraid.

Now, I notice you seem to have a particular beef with the "bible belt right wingers" in "america" (capitalization, please). What you seem to not realize is that "Bible-Belt" types formed this country, fought to secure this country, were the first president, first chief justice, etc. God has historically been a big part in this country, and it wasn't until the late 50's that the anti-God movement kicked in. So, before you go slamming the "Bible-Belters" in this country, you might want to do some earnest research, and I don't mean going to a couple of web sites that support your particular slant, regardless of historical fact.

No, that being said, let's look at the idea of a One World Order, shall we? Would you like my concept?No, I suppose you wouldn't. Do you think I'd like your country's laws imposed upon me? If you say, "No", then you are a good guesser. So, who's concept do we use? Maybe, those who are in control of money and power and see us as chattel property? Well, it is they who are trying to form the NWO. Enjoy being a cow? Fine. Leave me out of your nightmare.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I'm sorry, Distortion, you are from where?
You see, I state where I am from as I have nothing to hide, nor am I afraid.

First off dont just call me out, what gives you the impression i'm trying to hide anything. I'm from California.

What you seem to not realize is that "Bible-Belt" types formed this country, fought to secure this country, were the first president, first chief justice, etc.

I am very aware that many of the American colonists were fleeing England (generally) to practice their faith without persecution; however, not all colonies were religious. Also not all of the founding fathers were religious ie. Benjamin Franklin.

God has historically been a big part in this country, and it wasn't until the late 50's that the anti-God movement kicked in. So, before you go slamming the "Bible-Belters" in this country, you might want to do some earnest research, and I don't mean going to a couple of web sites that support your particular slant, regardless of historical fact.

Ok I see your true colors now. Just because somone doesn't believe in scriptures from thousands of years ago doesn't make someone anti-God. I believe in a God. I dont know what it is yet, and most likely never will. But I do not believe that people with practically no concept of the world around them deciphered the complexities of the universe.

Oh, and I have taken many courses in History, mostly in American history but also in Middle Age History and a theme that is recurrent thoughout history is that Religion has filled the gaps that science and reason do not understand. I am not saying that this is a bad thing, science and religion have the same objective, they're simply two seperate languages.

No, that being said, let's look at the idea of a One World Order, shall we? Would you like my concept?No, I suppose you wouldn't. Do you think I'd like your country's laws imposed upon me? If you say, "No", then you are a good guesser. So, who's concept do we use? Maybe, those who are in control of money and power and see us as chattel property? Well, it is they who are trying to form the NWO. Enjoy being a cow? Fine. Leave me out of your nightmare.

And what if these laws benefit humanity as a whole. Who knows, perhaps there would be less laws and restrictions under a unified leadership. As for being a cow, I'm with you I dont want to, no I WILL not, become cattle to any form of government. But a NWO doesnt not arbitrarily imply that we will all become cattle to anyone.


[edit on 10-5-2005 by Distortion]

I called you out in regard to the fact that I state I am from Alabama. You do not have that stated. As a matter of fact, you talk as if you are not even from the U.S.

Pardon me for not doing the quote thing; I find that to be lazy. I'll simply write in response to your reply.

You claim to be well aware of the reason for escape to the New World, but what you claim to know is basic, and you go further to assert that Ben Franklin was not religious. At the same time, you fail to note that Ben also said that the only way that this "experiment in society" was to succeed was with Christian ethics, morals and principles. Does that mean he was a church-goer? No, it doesn't. Does that mean that because he was not a church-goer he didn't know Christ? Of course not. What it does mean is that the nation was founded on Christian ethics, morals and principles, and that this fact was even noted by the very one you attempt to use as evidence that Chrsitianity had nothing to do with our national foundation.

I am not concerned with your belief or disbelief of a god or God. Your beliefs are not relevant when it comes to the historical facts of this nation. I am also not impressed with your "many courses" in history; I've spent a few decades wrpping my brain around the constitution and other assorted American documentation and the history surrounding those momentous times in history. I do not profess to be an expert at history, but I can tell you that my knowledge is specific to this particular topic and not general and braod.

Science and religion is not mutually exclusive, friend. Many scientists have been and are religious. Most of your early scientists were believers in God, and many are today. Why do you assume that there is a fift between religion and science? Because the academia pushes Darwinism even though field researchers question it? I wouldn't base such an assertion on that. I am a Christian and I love science, and I push my son to soak the stuff up like a sponge.

Now, if we might, back to the core issue of NWO.

As I said, all people will not be unified under one style of government or way of life. Furhtermore, those who are pushing for a NWO are not doing it for any humanitarian reason, but for global domination.

There was a reason why the Tower of Babel was destroyed. A single rule, a single government, creates the atmosphere for the powerful to try and become like God, and without several governments throughout the world, there is no way to defeat tyranny.

Had there been one government in 1939, there would have been nobody to stop Hitler. If there is but one government, there'll be no defense from the next Hitler.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I called you out in regard to the fact that I state I am from Alabama. You do not have that stated. As a matter of fact, you talk as if you are not even from the U.S.

Well I use the words American and United States a lot because in the grand scheme of things I think that it makes things more clear especially in topics that transcend borders. But I assure you, born and raised here.

Of course not. What it does mean is that the nation was founded on Christian ethics, morals and principles, and that this fact was even noted by the very one you attempt to use as evidence that Chrsitianity had nothing to do with our national foundation.

I agree that there are strong Christian values within the founders of our nation; however, I believe they realized the importance of seperation of church and state. Otherwise there would be guidelines for religion in the Declaration or the Constitution. But instead we find freedom of all religion, thoughts, and ideas put forth in the first Ammendment. Putting this first should show that it was of great importance to the founding fathers.

Today I belive this notion has been lost, instead we are putting christian idealism before technological innovation, and ultimately, the progression of our species. This is pretty much as un-american as it gets.

Science and religion is not mutually exclusive, friend. Many scientists have been and are religious. Most of your early scientists were believers in God, and many are today. Why do you assume that there is a fift between religion and science? Because the academia pushes Darwinism even though field researchers question it? I wouldn't base such an assertion on that. I am a Christian and I love science, and I push my son to soak the stuff up like a sponge.

You dont believe that the search for truth though science is the same of that though religion?

Now, if we might, back to the core issue of NWO.

As I said, all people will not be unified under one style of government or way of life. Furhtermore, those who are pushing for a NWO are not doing it for any humanitarian reason, but for global domination.

There was a reason why the Tower of Babel was destroyed. A single rule, a single government, creates the atmosphere for the powerful to try and become like God, and without several governments throughout the world, there is no way to defeat tyranny.

Had there been one government in 1939, there would have been nobody to stop Hitler. If there is but one government, there'll be no defense from the next Hitler.

I guess we can't really prove the absolute intentions of the NWO. I suppose its speculation on both sides.

Your logic is flawed however for the Hitler arguement. Hitler was able to rise to power though the ruines of a divided Europe post WWI. In many ways the League of Nations can be compared to an NWO, however they ( The League) were extremely weak. If there were a powerful NWO during this time then hitler would not have been able to rise to power, HE WOULD NOT BE THE ONE RUNNING THE NWO. And if anything there would only be a more unified global effort to crush his uprising. Hell maybe WWII wouldn't have happened.

Also I dont see how the FED creates money out of thin air and create debt. Can you elaborate on this concept please?

So what exactly do they do to create money then??? Money must come from somewhere and the first place this started happening was just after the First crusade when the Knights Templar (who got EXTREMLY powerful) used to create money and charge interest (usery) even to monarchies this is how they became so powerful and also how the "modern" banking of today started.

www.templarhistory.com...

Within two centuries they had become powerful enough to defy all but the Papal throne. Feared as warriors, respected for their charity and sought out for their wealth, there is no doubt that the Templar knights were the key players of the monastic fighting Orders. Due to their vast wealth and surplus of materials the Templars essentially invented banking, as we know it. The church forbade the lending of money for interest, which they called usury. The Templars, being the clever sort they were, changed the manner in which loans were paid and were able to skirt the issue and finance even kings.

They were destroyed, perhaps because of this wealth or fear of their seemingly limitless powers. In either case, the Order met with a rather untimely demise at the hands of the Pope and the King of France in 1307 and by 1314, "The Poor Fellow Soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon" ceased to exist, at least officially.

So really the only people they had to answer to was "The Vatican".

Our ENTIRE world is based on debt and money without it all we would have is nothing except the comfort of others and the other inhabitants of planet earth with no money there could be no wars etc. etc.

Almost every political decision made is based on stocks, trades and profit margins and economical debate. You MUST delve deeper into history to find out where our race is going next.

[edit on 10/5/05 by Hunting Veritas]

Distortion
Just because somone doesn't believe in scriptures from thousands of years ago doesn't make someone anti-God. I believe in a God. I dont know what it is yet, and most likely never will. But I do not believe that people with practically no concept of the world around them deciphered the complexities of the universe.

Aztecs, Mayans, Egyptians, Pheonicins etc. were Waaaaay smarter than me or you. For example the Mayans had at least 20 calenders mostly based on astrology. They lived more than 3000 B.C so how did such primativive people become so smart I also ask why are the people of today so ignorant and stupid??? Because of religion

Oh, and I have taken many courses in History, mostly in American history but also in Middle Age History and a theme that is recurrent thoughout history is that Religion has filled the gaps that science and reason do not understand. I am not saying that this is a bad thing, science and religion have the same objective, they're simply two seperate languages.

Religion does not fill the gap it simply covers it with a religous front. Its no good looking at the middle ages you need to go waaaaaay back to the time of ancients and ancient history will tell a very different story.

We have energies (chakras, auras etc.) that come off of us (frequecies) that resonate colors these colors change with mood but one thing that does mystify me is, there is a law in science that says energy cannot be destroyed it can only be transferred or moved so where exactly does our energy go when the physical body dies??? The simplest solution is to say "Its our spirit and it will go to heaven when we die so we must worship a god and be ruled by his laws so we don't go to hell for eternity". Riiiiiiight now is it not more substainable to say we are the imagination of ourselves and a dream experiencing itself in the never ending infinite of the universe(s).

I have not made my mind on wether the NWO is a good or bad thing really as pointed out the one world government idea would be easier to control rather than countries and nations all fighting and squabbling over stupid money situations. In order for humanity to be at peace with itself we need to take money out of the situation. Its as simple as that! No money = True Freedom!

[edit on 10/5/05 by Hunting Veritas]

would a NWO be that bad? I mean think...can you honestly say that there are more negatives than positives? World healthcare, no more war, no more religious intollerance.

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
So what exactly do they do to create money then??? Money must come from somewhere and the first place this started happening was just after the First crusade when the Knights Templar (who got EXTREMLY powerful) used to create money and charge interest (usery) even to monarchies this is how they became so powerful and also how the "modern" banking of today started.

The modern banking system was created in the middle ages because of rich Italian families such as the Medici's. Essentially, they had amassed so much wealth in gold that it was not safe to store it in their houses or whatever, so they hired goldsmiths to lock it up. This was because gold smiths knew how to protect their assets using vaults and what not. Eventually, these smiths realized that they had all this money sitting around in their bank and they could loan a portion of it out to other people. As long as they kept enough in their reserves so that if any of the rich people decided to take some gold out they could. This process has evolved, but is pretty much how our banking system works today.

Our ENTIRE world is based on debt and money without it all we would have is nothing except the comfort of others and the other inhabitants of planet earth with no money there could be no wars etc. etc.

Almost every political decision made is based on stocks, trades and profit margins and economical debate. You MUST delve deeper into history to find out where our race is going next.

You have to understand what money (cash) is. Its a bank note. It is worthless except for the fact that it is baked up by assests in our banking system. If we had no money our economy would be what is known to economists as a "barter economy" What this means is you have to trade good for good, there is no median.

For this to work you must have a mutual wants. What this means is if I grow nuts and i want X amount of berries, i have to find someone with X amount of berries and they have to want nuts in return. As you can see this system is very inefficent.

We have money for 3 reaons.
-Transaction purposes
-Precautionary insurance
-Speculative Purposes

no money=true freedom

Yeah I guess, then we could revert back to the stone age. Cool maybe we can go on more crusades like the middle ages or something. Kill people for no reason, excellent idea.


[edit on 10-5-2005 by Distortion]

Originally posted by Distortion

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
So what exactly do they do to create money then??? Money must come from somewhere and the first place this started happening was just after the First crusade when the Knights Templar (who got EXTREMLY powerful) used to create money and charge interest (usery) even to monarchies this is how they became so powerful and also how the "modern" banking of today started.

The modern banking system was created in the middle ages because of rich Italian families such as the Medici's. Essentially, they had amassed so much wealth in gold that it was not safe to store it in their houses or whatever, so they hired goldsmiths to lock it up. This was because gold smiths knew how to protect their assets using vaults and what not. Eventually, these smiths realized that they had all this money sitting around in their bank and they could loan a portion of it out to other people. As long as they kept enough in their reserves so that if any of the rich people decided to take some gold out they could. This process has evolved, but is pretty much how our banking system works today.

Our ENTIRE world is based on debt and money without it all we would have is nothing except the comfort of others and the other inhabitants of planet earth with no money there could be no wars etc. etc.

Almost every political decision made is based on stocks, trades and profit margins and economical debate. You MUST delve deeper into history to find out where our race is going next.

You have to understand what money (cash) is. Its a bank note. It is worthless except for the fact that it is baked up by assests in our banking system. If we had no money our economy would be what is known to economists as a "barter economy" What this means is you have to trade good for good, there is no median.

For this to work you must have a mutual wants. What this means is if I grow nuts and i want X amount of berries, i have to find someone with X amount of berries and they have to want nuts in return. As you can see this system is very inefficent.

We have money for 3 reaons.
-Transaction purposes
-Precautionary insurance
-Speculative Purposes

no money=true freedom

Yeah I guess, then we could revert back to the stone age. Cool maybe we can go on more crusades like the middle ages or something. Kill people for no reason, excellent idea.


[edit on 10-5-2005 by Distortion]

you are quite possibly my new favorite poster...if only cause you look at things historically and logically.

Banking does corrupt, there are some prople who seem to believe that we should abandon the LOGIC that went into our constitiution.

The "separation of church and state" clause, merely states that the government should not establish a national religion. This is because, as demonstrated in europe in the revolutionary (american) period, religion corrupts the government. We need a way to keep dirty money out of the oval office, but we all know, in a capitalistic society that something this revolutionary will only be ignored. People will say, "it is that person's right to establish a business and make millions" But what if your profit infringes on the rights of citizens?

Our laws are based on a system of, when rights come into conflict. If your rght to do something, infringes on the rights of another citizen, it is brought before a judge, whereupon it is decided what outcome is best for BOTH parties. Justice, fairness, and freedom, the standards of judgement. SO how is it that one man is to stand up against the banks, the buisnesses, heck even the government itself.

Buisness also has the ability to "buy and sell" politicans, fund thier campaigns, in order to achieve their agemda. Why not make an ammendment, that separates all buisness funding from politics. After all, it is only logical and fair.

The banks in this nation have people over a barrel, paying 20% on credit card balances, and going bankrupt; and meanwhile Chase Manhattan laughs it's a$$ off at America, while they sit perched as eagles on top of a pile of money.

The only place money comes from anymore, is the exportation of goods to other countries, and the harvesting of the earth's natural "commodities."

Debt is ruining America. And this country has an obligation to all of its citizens, not to big buisness politics. It is so easy to forget about people's suffering when it comes to making a buck.

[edit on 10-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 10-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Eyeofhorus, I competely agree with what your saying. Dirty money in politics digusts me and I see it as the root of most of our major political problems. Who was it that said democracy is the worst government in the world except for the rest? I think that holds true in this circumstance.

I think that we could fix our government by doing one simple thing. Imposing term limits on Senate members.

Senators are mostly career politicans, there are so many things wrong with this, in no way should politics be a career. They all sit around in congress and exchange favors to big business or some millionare to push their agenda though. They dont give a # about any of the true problems, they pretend they do come eletion time. They have so much damn funding incumbents (sp?) are almost always a shoe in.

I dont se how an ammedment could get passed to change this seeing as how you would need 2/3 of congress to vote for this. I bet a NWO could change this system.

You know this is why the New World Order is going to succeed right, all of you?

When you see this thread, it must be clear.

Just as Germany accepted Hitler, so will the majority of the World (and yes, the US) accept the NWO. Its because the situation we will be in, at that time, will be so unpleasant (and so 'out of nowhere' unexpected) we will welcome a unifying currency, and URGE all world religious leaders to meet together an establish a common basis for world spirituality.

Sure, and lets get that World Army ready too, because that way the US doesn't have to do all the work, yeah!