Australian held hostage in Iraq.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by jayce
Lets be honest here! it is the MONEY that brings us across here to this country, nothing else but the money.

our guys carry more amour and ammo than most US units because they fully understand that being captured is guaranteed death for a westerner here as our governments will not pay

We have a contractor who is in Iraq at the moment posting on this thread and everyone's still bickering and flinging their respective opinions around like rotten sheep bladders. It's the Schiavo case all over again.

Jayce, can you describe more what it's like over there? How heavy is the protection like for you guys? Private or government? Are contractors perpetually nervous or not? Do you mix with locals at all? What's the attitude of locals to you lot who are helping to rebuild, and vice-versa? Sorry to pepper you with questions but I'm interested.

Regarding Mr. Wood the hostage, it is a tragedy, yes. This whole farce of a "war" is a tragedy. If we hadn't invaded in the first place, then there wouldn't be any dying contractors, soldiers, or Iraqis. The saddest thing is that we rail at each other, and we argue over whether to blame the Iraqis or the victim, and meanwhile the true guilty parties, the fekwad perpetrators of this whole crime of aggression, Bush, Howard and Blair and all their oil-grubbing cronies, walk around in snappy suits proclaiming "we don't negotiate with terrorists". Pfft! We're so stupid for letting a few limpdik duckwits hijack our countries that maybe we ALL deserve to get our heads cut off. Jayce says it's all about the money. How true. After all, in Australia we still voted for Howard because of his economic policy. Same in Britain a few days ago. Anyone who voted for these buffoons doesn't have the right to claim sympathy for Mr. Wood.

I also would like to know just what it is like in Iraq at this time.

In reply to your comment about people dying as a result of countries like America & the UK with the help of countries like Australia invading. With respect this is a little short sighted. People have been kidnapped and killed in the Middle East for years. Well before the west invaded. It is just that at this time it gets more publicity than it did in the past.

As you said the barbaric nature of this part of the world is historically not uncommon.

Its important that the western world is unwilling to play this game and culturally resistant to such barbaric acts. As allways the western world should champion moral values and human dignities.

[edit on 7-5-2005 by Vanguard]

Originally posted by cargo

Originally posted by Jacqua
Exactly!!!! Gores......I was horrified at the level of non-compassion there....

Guys!!! come on, just one look at this poor guy, and how can anyone even slightly contemplate that he 'deserves' any of this.....

Jacqua, see my above post. How many times will I have to correct you people who don't bother to read the thread?

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.



[edit on 7-5-2005 by cargo]

Okay......Cargs.....Point taken....

However it was the 'way' you said what you said.......I had a kind of 'non-caring' air about it......thats all......Perhaps you DO care after all, but have trouble expressing yourself......Off you go -> some kind of Support Group - or The-Rapist for YOU

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by jayce

We have a contractor who is in Iraq at the moment posting on this thread and everyone's still bickering and flinging their respective opinions around like rotten sheep bladders. It's the Schiavo case all over again.

Thats kind of funny Wecomes!!!......But seems to be true, you know......Instead of all our Bickering.....we really Should be at least 'hoping' that this poor guy is 'somehow' Saved

At least NOW I know more about it 'anyway' thanx to Specials.....Just have to do more reading now

*and when I learn how to quote two people in one thread, I wont post twice*

Originally posted by Jacqua
Okay......Cargs.....Point taken....

However it was the 'way' you said what you said.......I had a kind of 'non-caring' air about it......thats all......Perhaps you DO care after all, but have trouble expressing yourself......Off you go -> some kind of Support Group - or The-Rapist for YOU

Trouble expressing myself eh. Well, I consider Ace of Base one of the most intelligent members in this community, and he understood my post straight away. Yet yourself and goregrinder immediately misinterpreted it and attacked it (me) without second thought. You two seem quite alike and may get along very well together on this forum, which is a plus.

But yes, I may consider dumbing down my posts for your mass consumption in future. If that helps you guys out.

I generally dont cater for noobs. It's your job to get to know this forum, not the other way around. So in future you may wish to think before you post. Friendly tip.

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
With respect this is a little short sighted. People have been kidnapped and killed in the Middle East for years. Well before the west invaded. It is just that at this time it gets more publicity than it did in the past.

Short-sighted? Hmm...do you honestly think that we've made it any better?

Or do you mean that people in the Middle-East have already been killing each other for centuries, so our bringing more death and killing is fine? By that logic it's okay to beat on the your next door neighbour if her husband beats her, and a prostitute should just shut up and deal with it if she's raped.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
With respect this is a little short sighted. People have been kidnapped and killed in the Middle East for years. Well before the west invaded. It is just that at this time it gets more publicity than it did in the past.

Short-sighted? Hmm...do you honestly think that we've made it any better?

Or do you mean that people in the Middle-East have already been killing each other for centuries, so our bringing more death and killing is fine? By that logic it's okay to beat on the your next door neighbour if her husband beats her, and a prostitute should just shut up and deal with it if she's raped.

Have we made it better - that is debatable. Have we made it worse - who knows....

For some I think perhaps we have made it better. Certainly I believe we have made it better for a lot of women and children who suffered dreadfully under the ‘old’ regime. For others no we haven’t, as they are now the targets of others. We only know what we hear and see and from that we have find our own level of truth. .

No - bringing more death and killing ISN'T fine. I didn't say ity was, so please to not twist what I said..

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
Certainly I believe we have made it better for a lot of women and children who suffered dreadfully under the ‘old’ regime.
...
No - bringing more death and killing ISN'T fine. I didn't say ity was, so please to not twist what I said..

I'm sorry, LotL, I didn't mean to twist your words. I pulled an all-nighter so I'm a little cranky, and you did call me short-sighted, so we're even, eh?

Anyway, it appears we disagree on how the invasion benefited Iraq. Among other things, maybe you should look into what depleted uranium weapons have done for Iraqi children. U2U twitchy for more info.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
Certainly I believe we have made it better for a lot of women and children who suffered dreadfully under the ‘old’ regime.
...
No - bringing more death and killing ISN'T fine. I didn't say ity was, so please to not twist what I said..

I'm sorry, LotL, I didn't mean to twist your words. I pulled an all-nighter so I'm a little cranky, and you did call me short-sighted, so we're even, eh?

Anyway, it appears we disagree on how the invasion benefited Iraq. Among other things, maybe you should look into what depleted uranium weapons have done for Iraqi children. U2U twitchy for more info.

Even...

....if you get a chance read a book called Women of Iraq.

Originally posted by cargo

Originally posted by Jacqua
Okay......Cargs.....Point taken....

However it was the 'way' you said what you said.......I had a kind of 'non-caring' air about it......thats all......Perhaps you DO care after all, but have trouble expressing yourself......Off you go -> some kind of Support Group - or The-Rapist for YOU

Trouble expressing myself eh. Well, I consider Ace of Base one of the most intelligent members in this community, and he understood my post straight away. Yet yourself and goregrinder immediately misinterpreted it and attacked it (me) without second thought. You two seem quite alike and may get along very well together on this forum, which is a plus.

But yes, I may consider dumbing down my posts for your mass consumption in future. If that helps you guys out.

I generally dont cater for noobs. It's your job to get to know this forum, not the other way around. So in future you may wish to think before you post. Friendly tip.

Okay.......Sorry Mods, I know we arnt meant to squabble.....but I have to say

Cargs.....You seem to be......um......'attacking me'.....here.....Do you think I was 'attacking' You perhaps.......Is that why???.....Youv taken me COMPLETELY the Wrong Way.....AND......we live in the same place......So, what does that tell you????.....Its NO cultural difference here

Perhaps you were having a bad day.......I was kidding...........Cant you take a bit of kidding.....Whats this dumbing down.....??? I said your post had a 'air' of uncaring about it.,.....Then I said......But you DO care after all.......!!!

Besides......You dont KNOW who you are talking to.......Perhaps I have trouble expressing Myself too.....

Cargs.....Your right about ONE thing......I shall definately in future......
think before I look like I am even "close" to attacking someone

And ......Whats a Noob???.....Ive never Heard of it???

Love From.......a Noob that has been Catered for!!!

Wood's email sent to captors.

Perhaps most tellingly, in a brief aside, Wood refers to the imminent transfer of power from the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority to an Iraqi interim government, and holds out the hope this will improve life in Baghdad.

He describes the US troops as an "occupying force" - hardly the language of a convinced ideological servant of the Americans.

The Wood family clearly hopes this email will stamp their brother as a humane, feeling and independent-minded man, and prove to his captors that he was not working for a Western government.

News.com.au

Please note that this email was sent in July '04.

Sanc.

Originally posted by sanctum
The Wood family clearly hopes this email will stamp their brother as a humane, feeling and independent-minded man, and prove to his captors that he was not working for a Western government.

Seriously Sanc, I doubt they give a rat's behind what Mr. Wood thinks or wrote. To them. he's simply a tool that they will use to their ends. If he was there in Iraq protesting the occupation, I'm sure they would still do the same. Point being: he's Western, he's white,and his nation helped to invade Iraq.

[edit on 2005/5/9 by wecomeinpeace]

WCIP, i agree with your statement.

Here's the latest...
Family offers donation to secure Wood's release.

The family of an Australian man held hostage in Iraq has offered to make a charitable donation to the people of that country in order to secure his release.

Douglas Wood is being held by a group known as the Shura Council of the Mujahideen, which has threatened to kill him tomorrow if Australian troops are not withdrawn from Iraq.

The Federal Government has made it clear it will not heed the demand.

Mr Wood's brother, Malcolm, says the offer of the donation is being carried by Sheikh Taj El-Din Al Hilaly, who left Sydney for Baghdad this afternoon.

Article

As no ransom has been demanded, i suppose this could be called a donation. Depending on where the money goes, of course.

Sanc'.
edit:text

[edit on 9-5-2005 by sanctum]

My heart goes out to Douglas Wood, and I note today his family have offered a "donation" for his safe release.

Lets hope. This is one of those times when you pray for someone, even when you don't believe in God.

I'm Australian, and loathe the current state of the planet and the fact that man still seems to have to brutalise and kill. Usually greed, not "national security" is at the root, or so it seems from my media filter.

The reality is that our "follow'em Johnny" government, and the handling of the iraq war has led Australians into uncharted territory.....suddenyl there are large parts of the world who don't like us.

Not one little bit.

I can't really remember "Australians as targets" in my living recollection, I'm 43, went to school and lived in Asia, had a dad in nam, I worked in Hanoi for a very short while. So I've seen a lot - I pay attention, perhaps more than most, but certainly not as much as some.

I'm surprised at how long Australia avoided joining the "targeted".

Terrorism, Jihad, invasions, decapitations involving Australians are extremely new events to us, even though we have lost many in such a short time, including the Bali victims.

The Douglas Woods situation, at worst, is an horrific tragedy, one that ushers in a new era for Australians.

I pray it is not so - but one thing is for sure - Australians really have joined the coalition and now need to take great care where once they didnt. Since this little shindig began I've wondered about every single aircraft I've boarded.

The world does not seem a "safer" place to to be an Aussie, and I dont see an easy end in sight in Iraq......

I hope it works, I really do. Fek, what a mess this whole Iraq thing is.

Jacqua,

As far as I am concerned, every day is a bad day here. You can't help but hang around and enjoy the idiocy though. Kinda like gawking at a car wreck. You cringe and it's painful to look at, but you keep looking anyway.

This place went down hill pretty quickly. I originally came here for the conspiracy. The aliens and secret military base stuff, etc. I can't pin point the exact moment this place collapsed under a torrent of crap, but it was a fair while after I came some years ago (I joined after being a lurker for a long time). I think it was a gradual, constistent curve. I'm not here to make friends etc. although I do highly respect some members and vote WAY ABOVE for a few (I've only Way Above voted about 3 times in total).

Overall though, I don't come here for laughs. Unless it involves edsinger posts, they are hilarious...and tragic...all at the same time!

As for the Douglas Wood situation, I've just been sickened by the media approach to this, considering it is an Australian this time. In particular the ABC. Did any Aussies see Media Watch tonight? Anyway, I don't think I'm going to participate in this thread anymore. I would prefer to quietly wish this man a safe return away from the circus that is the WOT forum.

Ciao.

Lady of the lake and also wecomeinpeace

Jayce, can you describe more what it's like over there? How heavy is the protection like for you guys? Private or government? Are contractors perpetually nervous or not? Do you mix with locals at all? What's the attitude of locals to you lot who are helping to rebuild, and vice-versa? Sorry to pepper you with questions but I'm interested.

To be honest i cannot go into to much details so sorry if i am vague in anyway.... Well for a start it is very warm and dusty as you would expect lol

but seriously, the security here is very very heavy, i believe there are more weapons in baghdad alone than in any city in the world, security is provided to all by the military (mainly marines US) who a fantastic job every hour of every day! Contractors themselves provide lots of there own security also and everybody looks after everybody else regardless of there nationality (including local iraqi's)
I think when new people come into the country it does take them awhile to get used to the daily bombing around the areas and even the mortor attacks which used to happen on a regular basis, we used to say you could set you watch or alarm by them
We work with locals on a daily basis and they are a GREAT bunch of people very happy and cheerful everyday, they teach other contractors arabic and little history of there surroundings and religion which is great for me, i am always curious about other peoples lives and history, we also share food and stories about familys and things, i think i have made many good friends with the locals (my brothers as they would say).... also without these peoples help lots of small villiages would miss out on reconstruction opertunities as they go with our liason teams and talk to the tribes and ask what they need and want in that area, i.e. more education facilties and maybe longer lasting electric supplys as the average power per a day is 10-12hours.....
I think the persons who we work with are all very good and i have been out and about myself and you do get a very mixed reaction from the people ranging from cheers to stones being thrown along with some other extra surprises but you cannot say they are all from locals as insurgents cross the boarder eveyday as they use this country now as a training ground for terrorist.... anyway Lady of the lake and wecomeinpeace i do not mind answering some questions (not all) but i will do my best, if you go back to the forum and check out the thread of erm.... cannot remember the proper title but it is something like "our boys are back home after 6 months in iraq" i have posted a few pics on there and will add more as and when i get them cleared....



till next time

[edit on 9/5/05 by jayce]

Originally posted by goregrinder
Excuse me, fellas, i did read boh of your posts. Just because i did not find them correct, or see eye to eye with either of you, doesn't mean that i didn't read them, lol. If i had to guess, you're both very, very young. These are the postings of people who could give a damn about someones life.

Sorry gore, but it seems to me you truly did not understand cargo's post.
I have a great idea, why don't you read cargo's post again, but this time start with the last sentence of his post and work your way up.
I am sure that will make it clear to you.
If you need additional help, let me know.

Being in iraq at this time is very dangerous, as everyone should know.
This doesn't mean these people deserve to die, just like people who drive cars don't deserve to have accidents, even though there is a reasonable chance car-drivers will get an accident some day.

Of course this is horrible, and of course I could let every beheading be a reason for me to be sad, shocked and angry, but if I do that I would be sad shocked and angry for the rest of my live, since so many horrible things happen in this world.

One day it may be my turn to be sad shocked and angry when someone I love suffers a horrible fate, even though I hope and pray this will never happen.
Untill that day I will try not to be too upset about the horror I see around me, because I should be glad the horror is passing me by for now.

But yes this is horrible, I hope the family and loved ones of these captives find the strength and hope to endure these moments in a reasonable way, and I hope they will see this guy back soon.

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
Perhaps, just perhaps Mr Wood (like so many others) who have been taken and executed in the most vile manner, thought they were just doing some good. For their efforts they lose their lives - but it is their fault...

I don't mean this in a rude way, but you're very naive. There's a lot of money to be made over in Iraq, and everyone wants a piece of the pie. People get paid so much money to go over there because it is so dangerous. I'm sick and tired of these people saying things like "oh, they were just trying to do good for the people of Iraq" and "oh, they were just trying to help rebuild Iraq". Let me let you in on a little secret, that is/was the furthest thing from their minds. You only start hearing that from them when they're on TV blubbering with a gun pointed at their head. They were/are there for the benjamins plain and simple.

It's like going to Vegas, but at this Vegas you gamble with your life.

Peace

Like i said, all contractors are here for the money i dont know anyone who earns less than $100.000 a year.......