Since when did developing capabilities equate to 'they intend to attack us'?
Maybe, they're developing them for defensive purposes because they're scared?
Maybe they're scared because they don't want to die?

I think the rest of the world understands that's a very rational & understandable fear given the circumstances, I mean just look at the response here

Right now America is the equivalent of a man with an AK 47 running around insanely trying to panic himself over other men sharpening twigs
it's sad, pathetic & shows a lot of weakness & insecurity

Worldnetdaily is a hilariously awful "news" source and I can't imagine why this is getting any play.

Originally posted by Red Golem
First,
An EMP bomb set off at a certain Alt. will cover the entire 48 states.

Yes, that's true, but you're leaving out a lot of important information. First of all, the explosion would have to be centered over the CONUS and at a high altitude. Iran's Shahab-3's can't even hit Europe now, let alone the states. Second of all, you would need a fairly high-yield weapon for the best effects. Iran might be able to assemble a first-generation bomb without testing, but boosted or fission-fusion-fission weapons are completely out of their capabilities. They might be able to get up to 50 kilotons (maybe), but we're talking about 1 megaton for a proper HEMP burst. It's not doing.

This is a non-issue. More scare-mongering from a bunch of hacks.

Originally posted by Red GolemI find it rather nausiating that the leaders of the US dont have an adaquate plan in place to deal with the majority of the Fed gov being destroyed or disabiled on a first strike. Reagan at least had a plan that was desighned to deal with the leaders being taken out. Now they just dont seem to care.

What? This has got to be a joke. You can be completely sure that all of our strategic planning and continuity plans are still in place. Our nuclear posture hasn't changed all that much from the cold war.

Besides the fact that there isn't much one can really do about a first strike, of course.

Originally posted by SunTzu
I think the rest of the world understands that's a very rational & understandable fear given the circumstances, I mean just look at the response here

Yes, it's very rational and understandable for a frightened country to develop the very weapons the U.S. will use as the reason to attack them. Maybe if they weren't trying to develop nuclear weapons, they would have no reason to be frightened. And if the rest of the world thinks the best way to achieve world peace is to open the floodgates of nuclear weaponry, then the rest of the world is incapable of the slightest degree of rational thought. Fortunately that's not the case, Europe is trying to get Iran to stop pursuing nuclear weapons, and if they fail, the U.S. will attack their facilities. It won't be another Iraq, we will not invade. But we will take out their nuclear capabilities to the best of our ability.

Right now America is the equivalent of a man with an AK 47 running around insanely trying to panic himself over other men sharpening twigs
it's sad, pathetic & shows a lot of weakness & insecurity

Other men sharpening nuclear twigs, who are driven by fundamental religion and a long running desire for "death to America", as they have so often made perfectly clear, yeah, they're very frightened. How many huge demonstrations do you see here in America where we pump our fists shouting "death to Iran"? None. Because we don't desire to see anybody die, but we will not sit around and wait for Iran's mullahs to follow through with what they say they intend to see happen.

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by namehere
and it will be ready in about 2007 estimated, one nuke detonated in the atmosphere near certain areas could easily destroy the power grid.

Why do you think so? It really seems like a bunch of BS to me.
The EMP is real, but any effect will be certainly limited. We had a blackout here in the East Coast, and the power was back in 2-3 days.

Big diff betwen the power going out and an EMP taking it out... EMP will take out electronics and electric systems, If i remeber correctly, anything effected by an EMP, has to be replaced it cant be fixed, If it takes out the power grid, everything will have to be fixed/replaced Everything from circuts in the lines to the computers that keep the thing operational, this would take a long time to put back up, not only that but every buisiness would be affected without power, computers cant run, but that doesnt matter because even with power the computers will no longer work, any car that needs electronics to run will no longer work, the cash registers at the stores wont work, the atm machines wont work, your tv, your phone, digital watches your microwav, your radio, pretty much anything with a circut board.. so an EMP could realy Screw things up for us.. Also, if i remeber right if the electronis arent ON at the time of the EMP they are less likely to be effected, so Asssuming we knew a nuke was coming towards the u.s all the gov would have to do would issue a warning to turn off all electronis, and have the power stations power down untill it detonated... but would the gov, warn us...

Wow the amount of folks who comment and don't even read it. funny.

The US and USSR both knew of the effects and planned for the military to survive the effects.

What you don't get is that civilian stuff is not hardened against it and that kind of damage would "RUIN" the US and World economy and BinLadin has already been quoted as saying attack them at their weakest, the economy.


You tulipwalkers will never admit the danger is real, have you once given thought of what if they have been in 'close' contact with N Korea and when North Korea tests their latest missile that DOES have the range to hit the Western US. Who is to say they haven't given one to Iran. Who is to say that those two countries haven't formed a partnership to do just that? What IF ol Chavez has allowed one of these in country?

You tulipwalkers scare me with the panzy attitude.

This is a risk that was not published nor mentioned much but it is a damn bit cheaper way to render the US a MOOT point in a very quick amount of time.

No worries folks, the AEGIS ships that have SM3 capability are already on station...

Only you ed would believe such ridiculous propaganda. Just proof of the pudding - Iran is next on the invasion list. The next we are going to see, if an invasion is imminent, is major border disputes from Iraq. Who was it that said our government cannot be compared to Germany in the 40's? It's always been the same throughout history - search for yourselves, a country who invades and is succesful, never stops, but keeps on truckin'.

Originally posted by edsinger
You tulipwalkers scare me with the panzy attitude.

Is this your new neo-Con hate speech? So pathetic...

No its not pathetic at all, I think this quote sums it up better for the Tulipwalkers out there.


Originally posted by Rasputin13
They have always and will continue to be on the wrong side of history and we all should hope that we continue to disregard their advice of pacification and retreat.

I think he nailed it on the head here.....

[edit on 25-4-2005 by edsinger]

Originally posted by edsinger
You tulipwalkers

Ad-homs don't make your argument any stronger. A real commitment to anti-proliferation and stopping nuclear use doesn't mean running around screaming about Iran's mega EMP bombs and other nonsense. Iran's nuclear program disturbs me, which is exactly why I want correct information out there so we can make a good decision on how to counter it.

Originally posted by edsinger
North Korea tests their latest missile that DOES have the range to hit the Western US.

The Taepodong 2 might be able to hit California, but yes, that counts. The Shahab 5 (which is a derivative) can't hit the US but is a credible threat to Europe. Still, Iran doesn't have a single warhead, let alone one powerful enough for a large EMP.

Originally posted by edsinger
You tulipwalkers scare me with the panzy attitude.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not a "panzy." I just think that you're a blockhead and that kneejerk military operations aren't the best way to reduce the spread of nuclear weapons. I mean, Iran's recent nuclear focus can be attributed quite clearly to the Iraq invasion. Military force isn't off the table, but there are better things we can try first.

You succumb to the fear mongering by the right any chance you get, Ed.

I supposed you r saying we should attack them before they attack us.

I love the fear this administration breeds, using the media to accomplish it.

They stay out of it- THEY'RE PLAYING GOOD COP, BAD COP AGAIN.

See Ed, it works. Sleep tight and pray that your current president doesnt say something that will trigger this horrible scenario. It will be Bush's mouth that will sink us....And as you fly to heaven (or whatever) you will still think he did and said what was best for us....
I hope at that time you are holding hands with the rest of those who supported the warmingering...and watch out you dont suddenly fly south.
Its nasty down there.

Originally posted by DeleuzeI don't know about anyone else, but I'm not a "panzy." I just think that you're a blockhead and that kneejerk military operations aren't the best way to reduce the spread of nuclear weapons. I mean, Iran's recent nuclear focus can be attributed quite clearly to the Iraq invasion. Military force isn't off the table, but there are better things we can try first.

I was not calling an individual that, its the whole damn group.


Blockhead? ok you are so entitled.



And what would that be? Let the French do it? The Germans? Like that has any credibility. You can never win negotiations when you are not willing to play hard ball. Plus those two would love to see the US set back even further. You scenario is a laugh, we HAVE ALREADY tried it and it didn't work. Iran and North Korea are problems that need addressed now and not later when they DO have the capability to harm others with their bull#.


Someone here earlier brought up a good point, you don't see Americans in the streets chanting "Death to Iran" and yet you still are blind to the seriousness of the issues.

In fact, looking at your history ed I would have to say you're propaganda. What conservative movement is giving you free T-shirts to post crap here? Are you tallying up your responses and getting pats on the back for it? Job well done for spilling neo BS on any senseless individual who will listen.

Your posts speak for themselves. You are definitely motivated to post neo politik created to desensitize the masses. Anyone with a hint of understanding about DoD Civil Affairs and think tank agenda clearly laughs at masquerade documentation - as you display, to make political policy acceptable to Americans.

I'm a contractor myself ed so I see whats on the wire everyday. I get over a thousand chits a day. I see whats moving and what policy entails to get the job done. I don't like seeing communist tactics of misinformation and blowback used against my fellow Americans. Put a cork in it.

First off, I don't think there's a person here that would disagree with going to war with someone who attacks our country first. Secondly, we are not in Iran so there is nothing to retreat from.

It may be easy for you ed to play your make-believe arm-chair general game, but many of us here like to live in reality.

Isnt this a conspiracy site?, or do conspiracies only apply/happen to the U.S and not the rest of the world? and only work from the liberal side of the fence? saying that things such as this wont/cant happen is foolish..


Yes this thread is stated on what whats presumed fact, but still...


[edit on 25-4-2005 by C0le]

Originally posted by edsinger
And what would that be? Let the French do it? The Germans? Like that has any credibility.

This is what I'm talking about. You see things in such narrow binaries that the only things you can come up with are platitudes or strawmen. No, I don't think "let the French do it" is a coherent policy for dealing with Iranian proliferation. I think that diplomatic options have ended nuclear programs in the past and that they ought to be pursued at first. At best, it will allow us to end a threat without bloodshed (unless, of course, ending Iran's nuclear program isn't your real goal). At worst, it will let us confirm Iran's desire to proliferate, thus giving any military options credibility.

Originally posted by edsinger
You can never win negotiations when you are not willing to play hard ball.

That's what the US is doing. It is well understood that unless Iran deals with the EU they'll have to deal with Israel and/or the US.

Originally posted by edsinger
Plus those two would love to see the US set back even further.

Oh, I get it, let's make up stupid bull# about how France is dumb and how Germany hates the US. Gimme some Freedom Fries lol1!!11!1!

Originally posted by edsinger
You scenario is a laugh, we HAVE ALREADY tried it and it didn't work.

We did? Funny, I thought we were still involved in negotiations. Mind showing me the last time Iran made nuclear weapons?

Originally posted by edsinger
Iran and North Korea are problems that need addressed now and not later when they DO have the capability to harm others with their bull#.

I agree. There are many ways to address those threats, though. If you weren't such a shill you might realize that.

Originally posted by C0le
Isnt this a conspiracy site?, or do conspiracies only apply/happen to the U.S and not the rest of the world? and only work fromt the liberal side of the fence? saying that things such as this wont/cant happen is foolish..

Conspiracies usually require some factual grounding for them. If you want your ideology to be classified with cranks and people who believe in aliens anally probing them, though, I guess you're free to go ahead.

[edit on 25-4-2005 by Deleuze]

This might come as a surprise but I do not consider myself a neocon at all. As time goes on and the Tulipwalkers continue to stick their collective head in the sand, I will not shy away from addressing a threat and calling it what it is.

Do I think the likelyhood of this type of attack is reality? Well hell yes I do, If I was Iran or even a non-country, I know this would be the ultimate in SHOCK and would be fairly easy to do.

As for your wires, I see them also and what you see has been censored.

The threat is real and the sooner the tulipwalkers wake up the better, but alas that can not happen as they do not think the US is in the bullseye, but I know we are.


I sir, perfer to do as TeddyR, HarryT and RonnieR told us.....not as Jimmy Carter and BillC did.

Originally posted by edsinger
Do I think the likelyhood of this type of attack is reality? Well hell yes I do, If I was Iran or even a non-country, I know this would be the ultimate in SHOCK and would be fairly easy to do.

It would take around a 1 megaton weapon to properly create a large enough EMP to cover the entire CONUS.

Without nuclear testing, Iran could possibly make a 50 kiloton weapon.

So uh do you have anything else to say or are you just enjoying that soapbox?

Like I've said before, Iran's nuclear program is a threat but I don't believe you have the best solution.

[edit on 25-4-2005 by Deleuze]

Don't waste your time kiddies...Edsinger is just a plant.


And not a very creative one at that.


There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse

Originally posted by Deleuze
It would take around a 1 megaton weapon to properly create a large enough EMP to cover the entire CONUS.

Without nuclear testing, Iran could possibly make a 50 kiloton weapon.

So uh do you have anything else to say or are you just enjoying that soapbox?

Like I've said before, Iran's nuclear program is a threat but I don't believe you have the best solution.

Ok I can see your point, its a good thing that there isn't an Islamic country that HAS tested and PROVED warhead designs, good thing that they never helped Iran in the past either..


Whew had me spooked........Ok false alarm then....


NOT.



One thing to consider, to cover the whole of the CONUS yes, and maybe not a 1MT would be needed, what if they have the Thermonuclear warhead designs that China bought with campaign donations?

Even IF they only have a 25kT weapon, that size at 200k feet off the East Coast would wreck enough havoc in itself...it doesn't have to include Wyoming to bring the US to a grinding halt.


So whats your solution? Negotiate with them? Just when has that worked? 1995 was a good example of that. Don't you understand, you CAN'T Negotiate with these F&^sticks, they SEE it as weakness.

Originally posted by Voice_of DoomDon't waste your time kiddies...Edsinger is just a plant.

Damn, spilled my beer again.




EDIT:


These Tulipwalkers are funny!

[edit on 25-4-2005 by edsinger]