Debunking religion (mainly Christiantiy)

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
We should love everyone and hope for nothing in return.

So what do you do with a man who kills his 8 year old daughter and her 9 year old best friend?

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
We should love everyone and hope for nothing in return.

So what do you do with a man who kills his 8 year old daughter and her 9 year old best friend?

I believe your Jesus taught to turn the other cheek?

Of course horrible things happen in the world and we struggle with the meaning of it all. At the end of the day it is all a dream anyhow, so it doesn't matter.

I am sure those girls are in a better place now and in understanding the universe a bit better, they will forgive this man. We and he can only hope to attain similar enlightenment.

An eye for an eye, as they say, only makes the whole world blind.

Originally posted by dbrandt
So what do you do with a man who kills his 8 year old daughter and her 9 year old best friend?

I do not believe in the death penalty. The man made a choice. That choice has consequences. But, I am not sure if that answered what you were asking. If it did not, could you clarify?

Originally posted by Shenroon
Ill start in my opinion ....

All right let us begin our path here. I notice the word opinion.

What does your opinion consist of?

1) You (like all of us) can only learn anything as true if you can attach it to another truth. If not, it's suppressed into your subconscious filing cabinet.
If this wasn't true, you wouldn't still be reading.

2) You (like all of us) are born with an instinct of "SELF PRESERVATION" which you percieve this day to mean:"Self before I serve".

3) You (like all of us) are born and know the 1st Truth: "I AM"

4) You (like all of us) are brought into this world and know your second thought which stems from pain, cold, wet, cord cutting, waste desposal removal, intake source taken, " FEAR" congradulations this is your master. you now know fear. fear because of "Self preserve", which pertained to all of us, but you knew not love or faith at that moment.

5) You (like all of us) are then picked up, cleaned up by the nurses and doctor. Your third thought: "I AM not alone"

Let's recap:

your opinion means this to me:

Opinion = "SELF BEFORE ANY 1" + "I AM" + "FEAR" + "I AM not alone"

and my dear equal, that is infinitley less than the truth.

You can keep your vile lies. There is no place in our world for you.
We are many, We are 1, MANY ARE 1!

There are those who share thoughts without paying a "cell phone bill"

Ignorant fools. We pity you and have been serving you for so long. WAKE UP. We never left you, you left us. We miss you. Come home soon.

Even every word you write and say in every tongue has 2 meanings, quarelling. Fighting. ALL negativity stems from FEAR. Who's your Daddy?

Your Servants,
THEM.



[edit on 12/5/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Shenroon
O.K so some of u r saying that god is merciful because he kills some and not others.

Its important to say that the bible says it very clearly in several places that both good and bad things happen to both good and bad people here on earth. He says that this place is not meant to be our home we are just passing through. We are looking at our life in the context of but a day among millions of days.

Originally posted by Shenroon
So if he kills a parent and leaves a child on his own he is good. Many more could have died yes but many shouldnt have. So if there is a god (which im not saying there is) then he is one evil son of dog.

Firstly, GOD doesnt kill people. Sinners like your or me, or our neighbor down the street, or that school teacher we knew in school do. We are given free choice and through that free choice we have the ability to affect not only our own lives but the lives of others. The is the dark reality of life. As in the case of the Tsunami - the bible never says that god is going to give his followers and believers an easy life with no pain or suffering. In fact he says the opposite that everyone will be tested in their faith daily. People offen confuse the fact of merciful with justice......God claims to be a Just god......to be that he must show the same pain, suffering, blessings, and goodness to all. In the Tsunami good and evil people perished alike I am sure, it was a natural disaster while its a tragic thing, it would be much more tragic had those people not had the opportunity to hear the word of god and had the opportunity to repent for their respective sins. So that when Christ returns they may a never ending life free from those same pains and sufferings they have endured.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
We should love everyone and hope for nothing in return.

So what do you do with a man who kills his 8 year old daughter and her 9 year old best friend?

If anything the bible teaches two different approaches to this. In the old mosaic law (before christ) the man would most likely have been stoned for the sin of Murder. As it is written in the Ten Commandments, "though shall not commit murder."

However, through christs teachings we are taught to turn the other cheek. For not only will the individual suffer the punishment of the land he enhabits (earthly justice) but he will also most likely endure an eternal punishment afterwards.

I offer this.....would you rather punish someone today for your instant gratification for a crime, or would you rather watch them suffer an eternal punishment for that crime.

Somewhere in the bible in the new testiment it says Judge not one another and in another place it says vengence is mine thus sayith the lord.

The man who kills his daughter and daughters friend will have litterally "Hell to pay."

Would you let a murder suffer the punishment or the eternla suffering.
Well quite honestly not that i believe in it or not but if someone kills an innocent they deserve both end of
Belivers

Well my personal belief is that Christ taught that it is not our place on earth to level a punishment so high as death. When we put someone to death for their sins on earth we are removing the possibility of God redeeming them. While this might be sick to some people to think that someone who would kill a child should deserve such a chance. Christ did not come to earth to save the saved he said he came to save the lost.

When the mob wanted to kill the adultrist as was their laws they asked Jesus what they should do. He said, "Let he who is wihtout sin cast the first stone." Im not perfect, and neither are you or anyone else. It says elswhere in the bible, for all of sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. Thats why christ was sent. There are also countless passages about judging one another.

At anyrate it is unfortunate that satan feels estemed to instigate these truely dark and evil deeds through the acts of men.

a fourteen-year-old kid that thinks he has figured out the greatest mysteries of the universe is going to get one hell of a slap in the face sooner or later.

you can have that in writing, if you like.

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by dbrandt
So what do you do with a man who kills his 8 year old daughter and her 9 year old best friend?

I do not believe in the death penalty. The man made a choice. That choice has consequences. But, I am not sure if that answered what you were asking. If it did not, could you clarify?

I'm actually not sure what I'm asking? Someone said life is all a dream. I don't believe the knife stabs into those two girls felt like a dream. I'm sure it hurt extremely bad.

Originally posted by dbrandt
I'm actually not sure what I'm asking? Someone said life is all a dream. I don't believe the knife stabs into those two girls felt like a dream. I'm sure it hurt extremely bad.

I made comments on partial arguments. The confusion was originally mine. Sorry about that.

I agree with you that one can give instructions on right and wrong. I also believe that God's perfect love is key to understanding what is right and what is wrong. It is this perfect love which we should share with others and hope for nothing in return.

Hey how come everyone keeps rippin up everything i say so im 14 wot differnece does age matter if in the end we are all equal to god by doing this u r ursel saying not to follow his teachings
backstabbers

I challenge you to present scriptural proof that "we" are equal to God.

Originally posted by Croatoan
I challenge you to present scriptural proof that "we" are equal to God.

Technically speaking, god has not presented himself to be compared so we cant say we are or are not.

Find me proof we are equal to god
Well I'm not up for reading the bible but I'm sure it said we were made in god's image
and also I meant we are all equal in God's eyes (if he exists) so by saying I'm not learned because I am 14 then you are yourself condemming you.

Originally posted by Shenroon
Find me proof we are equal to god
Well I'm not up for reading the bible but I'm sure it said we were made in god's image
and also I meant we are all equal in God's eyes (if he exists) so by saying I'm not learned because I am 14 then you are yourself condemming you.

Who are you adresing this to?

The Bible says that we are created in God's image. This does not mean that we are equal to God.

Let me put it to you this way, would you rather have a million dollars or an image of a million dollars?

My post was addresed to the one who says i cannot know anything 'cos im 14 when if god has been there for eternity a couple of years won't make much difference.
Alos about god being fair because he kills both good and evil does that mean if i go kill 10 rapists then kill 10 children that I am merciful and not a deranged religous lunatic

O.K i know this isnt exactlly original but the three criteria I put at the start actually could describe aliens from the point of view of humans 2,000 years ago.
Can create and take life at will. I got told off for not saying from nothing. But what if ET could create things from air molecules to someone who didnt know that air had substance this would be making life from nothing.

Anywhere even beyond the sky. I was told off for this as well as he is everywhere and knows all. IN a sense a security guard with cameras around whereever he is knows everything that is happening so maybe aliens are just watching with invisible or at least hidden cameras and travelling anywhere with what is thought of aliens' craft the speeds they go would be instantainious for someone used to horse and carriges.

He has influence everywhere well maybe the world leaders are aliens

Originally posted by orangetom1999


First off Shenroon,
Notice my post of earlier on this tread "debunking Christianity"

The point was made....that all of us....especially me deserve hell and damnation. All of us Shenroon. meaning we all deserve death.

Whenever.. I see posts by unbelievers...they like to do as do you ..and post stuff about ...the tsunami...victims ..aids...etc etc etc...and put this all on Gods account.

Unbelievers love to use logic and reason ....the difference being the starting point from which the logic and reason originate. For unbelievers this starting point is ..that we deserve...we are all good people so we deserve the best...we by this virtue hold God accountable...
You see Shenroon ..the Christian doctrine is that we are all bad people....horrible..corrupt..defiled. and we all deserve hell and damnation....death..nothing better.
When a knowlegable Christian looks at the logic and reason of the tsunami..it is that more are not dead..than there are. That mercy was extended at all to those who survived. You see????? totally different starting point for the logic and reason.
Shenroon..what a knowlegable Christian pleads to god for is Mercy...not I deserve this or that...as a starting point. Not pointing the finger at God for not giving me good things that I deserve. Because I dont deserve it ...Shenroon..I deserve death , hell and damnation.


On the logic and reason side..and the situation in Africa....point fingers at the United Nations. They have spend 50 plus years ..twiddling t heir thumbs while Africans kill themselves off by the millions. Even with the aids epidemic...they have done nothing but debate and point fingers at eveyone else..while trying to collect money. Since you dont believe in God and want someone to blame for the "Word Situation" here is a good candidate. You dont seem to mention this ..Shenroon..why is that??
How about historically athiest nations....like Russia or Communist China???
Think about the way they treat their peoples by logic and reason....Remember to thank Karl Marx and Fredrick Engels....for their works on logic and reason ..which have been taken up by governments to justify the killing of millions. You dont seem wont to speak about this Shenroon. REmember..Shenroon...for some ...logic and reason is their religion..its called Gnosticism. Sometimes it is called sophism.
The miracle of aids and the tsunami ..is that more were not killed. Amazing Shenroon..how poor your logic and reason is.
Public schooling has a tendency to do this to us...some of us get out of this kind of thinking.

Thanks ,
Orangetom

We all deserve death, you are right. We all have sinned. Do you know how serious sin is? I'm sure you dont. We all deserve death, but God is loving and merciful too. So He sent his Son to take our punishment for us. We can accept his sacrifice and be forgiven. I deserve to die, but God made a way out of it and I'm taking it. Orangetom deserves to die, and he took God's way out. Shenroon, you deserve to die, but you arent taking the way out yet.
God is truly merciful.