France bans female muslim students from wearing abayas in state schools

a reply to: AlienBorg

Why? My background is Applied Maths - it's impossible to deny the massive role the Islamic Academies ad Scholars played in the fields as mathematicians and scientists travelled from all over the world to study there and escape persecution in Europe at the time. Maths and science were heavilly revered in Islam and mosques were built to worship geometry.

Without the concept of 0, mathematical notation or Arabic numerals we'd be stuch with Roman numerals which are very inneficient, without advanced algebra of abstract maths most scientific fields couldnt be developed- Fibonacci travelled there to study and brought the works of Al-Khwarizm to Europe in the Liber Abbaci.

a reply to: SwissMarked

Have you spent any time in an Islamic state? I spent nearly a month in Morocco last year. Oldest Islamic state and very stable 400 year monarchy in the same family line. The Queen is a beautiful redhead from an old Moroccon family and she has advanced degrees in Civil Engineering. The King is young and considered progressive for an Islamist. Women are not required to wear hijab in public. I didn't, and I exposed my shoulders and ankles and had no problems anywhere in the country. Even out in the villages over the High Atlas. Not just western women... Moroccan women, while modest, dont wear hijab all the time either. There is call to prayer 5 times a day, but nobody hits the ground. There comes a quiet while people lower their conversations or remain silent in respect to others, I found myself taking the moment to have a personal expression of gratitude and submission to my personal view of Source. Insha'Allah. Alhamdulila.

I will be going to Indonesia next year for my second view of Islam. Just like Christian countries, there are some more fundamental and radical and some less. In general, becoming less and less, but then, so is Morocco becoming less and less fundamental as well.

Its not fair to judge everyone of a particular religion because of the acts of radicals.

The education minister described girls and boys wearing the robes in junior high and high school as “an infringement on secularism,” a foundational principle for France. He accused some students of using the traditional attire to try to destabilize schools.

Probably the the only think I will ever agree with Macrone on. And, it is France.....their country, their rules. Why let immigrants take over the fabric of their society. See what I did there?

It starts in the schools though. It's good to see some pushback from infiltrators.

a reply to: StoutBroux

When my kids were growing up, they had a dress code in school too. They said so that there would be no gangs, only certain colors were allowed, and slacks and button downs for girls and boys. All drab, all alike.

So the kids started wearing different colored shoe laces. To affiliate with different gangs. So the school banned colored shoe laces. Then it was string bracelets. Next it was fingernail polish. Even hair ties. Yep, ban that crap!

But for some funny reason, the school exempted Larry King. (look him up) And let him wear high heels and prom dresses. Because rights... and the VP was a radical lesbian. Larry King ended up shot by a classmate, that was wearing the required school uniform. But this classmate had been suffering sexual harassment from this crossdressing OLDER (but smaller by far) kid in drag. The VP was warned by teachers, and the kid that was shot was living in a special group home because he would molest other kids in foster care. The shooter will be getting out of prison soon, if not already. He would have done life without parole, were it not for my daughters English teacher that testified that the politics and unequal enforcement of the stupid dress code for special gay kids and the unanswered sexual harassment caused this shooting. Both boys were victims of the adults.

HBO did a special on this case. It was surprisingly fairly accurate, and we had an inside view of things. This was my daughters school the year before it happened. She had already gone on to the high school, but knew the shooter from the year before. We experienced the absolute mismanagement of rigid dress codes in the school.

I personally am completely against them. It just gets to be a game the adults can abuse by selective enforcement.

nevermind

a reply to: AlienBorg

But Islam became what we know today, a backward anachronistic dangerous political ideology of the worst kind.

I don't know. I'm not a scholar of the History of Islam. I did read a historical fiction novel, placed in the time a few centuries before the Spanish Inquisition. An Odor of Sanctity, by Frank Yerby.

The entire renaissance period relied on the classical times with the support of much of the Church, despite the official politics the Christian Church was part of the reformations in Europe.

Yes, On the Nature of Things by Lucretius was preserved by Christian monks. Doesn't seem to have been widely disseminated until the 1800s though.

The "danger" as I see it is that it is an evangelistic religion that sees its mission as spreading Worldwide, not unlike Christianity. That makes Islam and Christianity to be natural opponents.

A compromise religion would not be viable unless both parties were to admit that they may not be the be all end all of human achievement and destiny(whatever that is).

Or live in a society of mutual coexistence without favoritism of one over the other. France is probably trying to do that.

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: AlienBorg

Why? My background is Applied Maths - it's impossible to deny the massive role the Islamic Academies ad Scholars played in the fields as mathematicians and scientists travelled from all over the world to study there and escape persecution in Europe at the time. Maths and science were heavilly revered in Islam and mosques were built to worship geometry.

Without the concept of 0, mathematical notation or Arabic numerals we'd be stuch with Roman numerals which are very inneficient, without advanced algebra of abstract maths most scientific fields couldnt be developed- Fibonacci travelled there to study and brought the works of Al-Khwarizm to Europe in the Liber Abbaci.

You can give credit to some Islamic scholars, that's fine. You cannot credit Islam in my view. This is a terrible and backward political ideology. In the early stages of the religion progress was made but Islam isn't judged on what some scholars and movements of thought achieved at that time. I am not doubting the role of the Arabs and other Islamic Scholars in Mathematics, Science, Engineering, philosophy. But Islam as a whole failed...

a reply to: pthena


The fact is all religions were created as a method of control. Society uses religion to enforce ideas and morals. Every religion has its dark side and yes that includes Christians rape torture occured some argue its still occurring.


The great thing about the US is the founding fathers didn't pick a religion you have the freedom to decide what to believe. The French are trying to pick winners and they don't have the right to do so. No government should tell people what they should believe.

I understand the dangers radicals can cause however trying to destroy their beliefs will only make things worse. France is going to deal with consequences as they make it easier for radical elements to use this to spread hate.

a reply to: dragonridr

I don't know the French Constitution. I thought they were picking secular. I don't think a World religion is just going to go away. Radical reaction to reactionary propaganda; possible.

a reply to: dragonridr
Yes, the founding fathers agreed about religion, the freedom to decide what to believe. But, they certainly did not want any religion or religious follower going around trying to brow beat and coerce people to be like them.

You're wrong about France. They are a secular country, they do not want any "state" religion, they are not choosing sides. The law states "no religious attire". So why is everybody think it's just about Muslims. The law applies to Jews as well, they cannot wear Kippahs/ Yarmulkes. Even Catholics if they are wearing overt crucifixes'. Or any other religion that uses attire as a religious statement.

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

This can be a fine line. And like I said, it's France. But here in the USA, students get sent home or ordered to change their clothing for wearing a flag or political statement on a t-shirt. Yes it can turn into a game including challenges and power trips to see who can get away with what. But in it's simplicity, I don't see a problem. It's the underlying issues that shouldn't have to be addressed that are the problem.

School uniforms? I would personally hate that but I can see sense to them, not the cost though. As a student, I minded my own business, never made statements, well except for a sit-down strike in the 5th grade with all the other 5th and 6th graders lol, but wanted simply to complete and pass my classes. I couldn't have cared less for school. It was mandatory, I did it and I moved on.

So to me this is all noise. But people do have rights. It will always be a complexity for these types of situations. Mostly because there is no right or wrong answer. It's all about the person in charge's personal choice. That's the way of the world as it has always been.

a reply to: StoutBroux

Walmarrt has the standard school uniforms in stock by the hundreds this time of year. Not expensive and there are tons in the second hand stores too.

People don't know this, but they are not really constitutional in public school. When the same school sent my daughter home for having blue hair, I printed out the USSC ruling from 1973 that said students get to wear their hair any way they want, it's silent speech and protected by the 1st. Mohawks, color, anything. But still, fascist school districts send kids home, and most parents comply because they don't know any better. I printed out the ruling, went to the District office, handed it to the first person I saw and said, someone needs to get my daughter back in school before I call a lawyer.

Needless to say, she was back in school promplty. I researched her rights to clothing and hair and all that at that time.

All school dress codes are voluntary unless attire encourages lawbreaking, or is obscene. Most people just don't know it.

Now, I hate them. I thought they were a good idea too, until I saw how the adults with agenda's selectively enforce and abuse it first hand. Ultimately, the uneven treatment of some 'special kids' led to one being shot at school in the classroom.

a reply to: AlienBorg

It's All about " Facial Recognition " Nowadays " , haven't You Heard ? It's NEVER Been About Biasness Against Minorities with the Establishment Liberal NWO Shills , Only the AGENDA They are Ordered to Push on a Gullible Public .

a reply to: dragonridr

How did Islam invent things in the “1st Century” when it wasn’t around for another 500+ years… nice try “history buff”… 🤣🤣🤣

a reply to: SwissMarked

Algebr...a haha, got me.


All kidding aside, even novice students of history such as myself know that the importance of the contributions of Islamic people to academia have been enormous. Incalculable. Don't think you'll get much support for that stance, personally.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: dragonridr
Yes, the founding fathers agreed about religion, the freedom to decide what to believe. But, they certainly did not want any religion or religious follower going around trying to brow beat and coerce people to be like them.

You're wrong about France. They are a secular country, they do not want any "state" religion, they are not choosing sides. The law states "no religious attire". So why is everybody think it's just about Muslims. The law applies to Jews as well, they cannot wear Kippahs/ Yarmulkes. Even Catholics if they are wearing overt crucifixes'. Or any other religion that uses attire as a religious statement.

You can't be serious are you? I don't think non-muslims see someone in a robe and go you know what that's the religion I want to join. The coercion argument is just stupid.

a reply to: dragonridr

Frances Ban is All About " National Security " then ? ..............Hmm.....

originally posted by: SwissMarked
a reply to: dragonridr

How did Islam invent things in the “1st Century” when it wasn’t around for another 500+ years… nice try “history buff”… 🤣🤣🤣

You are wrong the Muslim religion didn't start with the writing of the Quran. What the Quran did was invalidate Muslim texts written before it. Muslims believe the Quran to be direct knowledge from the Creator of existence. As such, some Muslims believe that the earlier versions are distorted through flawed processes of transmission and interpretation over time, and consider the Quran's version to be more accurate. That is why Muslims say the religion started in 640 AD reality is it is older than that.

a reply to: tjack

Arabic/Persian people’s contributions and the contributions of Islam are two entirely different things… Islam has contributed nothing positive…

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: SwissMarked
a reply to: dragonridr

How did Islam invent things in the “1st Century” when it wasn’t around for another 500+ years… nice try “history buff”… 🤣🤣🤣

You are wrong the Muslim religion didn't start with the writing of the Quran. What the Quran did was invalidate Muslim texts written before it. Muslims believe the Quran to be direct knowledge from the Creator of existence. As such, some Muslims believe that the earlier versions are distorted through flawed processes of transmission and interpretation over time, and consider the Quran's version to be more accurate. That is why Muslims say the religion started in 640 AD reality is it is older than that.

Islam is based upon the worship of what guy… when did he exist… it can’t predate it’s prophet… so… yeah… anyhoo…