Death: About heaven and hell

magick?

magick and energy are the same substance. the term used depends on the group of people you're with.

religious people call it "miracles through faith/prayer"
wicca's, witches, druids, mages call it magic
reiki users, budhists etc call it energy.

you can use this substance to alter/manipulate stuff, but you can't create something out of nothing.

but once we know how the universe is made...how about the multiverse? that one is even more complex

I have often read of a "void". Kind of a weighing station when you are not ready to die and you are coming back.

I have read at least 100 stories of NDE's where they were in this void. If they called to Jesus or stayed in the void long enough a "viel" was lifted and then they saw the white light and heaven and the other more common NDE's.

actually you're pretty free to do as you wish. the people put in a void are probably people who aren't in control of themselves. don't quote me on it. all i know is that i, nor my friend who died 3x didn't experience any voids.

ok to give a twist to this...does anyone know where souls come from and what type of soul you got? and trust me...just because you do good things doesn't automatically mean you got a soul created by an angel type entity. and if you do bad things doesn't automatically mean you got a demonically created soul and the third place where souls are created, but only during the beginning and not anymore, was the pool (god).

so saying people who do things are possesed by darkness isn't accurate to say the least.

now how to find out what type of soul you got...i leave that to you for finding out to make it interesting...there are angelic/demonic hybrids too

[edit on 30-4-2005 by Enyalius]

Originally posted by Enyalius
magick?

magick and energy are the same substance. the term used depends on the group of people you're with.

religious people call it "miracles through faith/prayer"
wicca's, witches, druids, mages call it magic
reiki users, budhists etc call it energy.

you can use this substance to alter/manipulate stuff, but you can't create something out of nothing.

but once we know how the universe is made...how about the multiverse? that one is even more complex

I have to say that it is not Wiccas it's Wiccans. The only people I know of who who spell Magick ; magic are illusionists. And who knows my theory could be right it could be wrong, but for those who believe that God created everything than something can be created out of nothing by him using enrgy to create it.

Originally posted by antigovFZ777
paperclip

This makes me think, that maybe its not one belief system, or religion that is correct, or the "one true way." Maybe they all are. Maybe your afterlife is what you make it by what you believe in your physical life.

So if their death experience starts out in a way that corresponds to their personal beliefs. What makes one think it wont continue, and maybe finish that way as well?

I have studied some kabbalah from a Sephardic Rabbi, and in one of his series of how things work (or anatomy series) he states that Christians go to Christian heaven, Buddist see buddah, etc., etc.
And then eventually everyone works there way up past these "fake" images, to the truth. (to paraphrase)

Peace

dalen

WoW this is one old thread and since then I've gained a lot more knowledge and insight into matters.

But what you say is correct. There is no one true-wayism in belief/religion. The All is all encompassing.

As OBE'ers noticed the Astral fields can be manipulated to look as you see fit and they experienced that you can and will create your own godly deities and surroundings. In due time you will see beyond these images and see what there truly is.

Originally posted by Enyalius
well you start over again and again. each life time you're supposed to learn new things and grow. and eventually you will become part of this "pool" and the entities that are gathered around it.

So you mean we get re-incarnated over and over again until your pure ? Everytime you get re-incarnated you loose all your previous memory of your last life. But do you feel yourself in the moment as you do now do you think ? Or will you become a whole different person ? This pool , will you exsist in it ?

Thanks for the great topic

Enyalius,

Hook us up with the new knowledge you gained since you posted this originally. Have you seen beyond the "pool" yet? What else have you found out? Enlighten us!

I've read this thread back last night and I had to laugh at myself. Here and there I sure made some mistakes Then again what happened was just the beginning of what was to come...

I haven't seen beyond the "pool" because there is nothing greater then it. In the past months I started to call it the ALL. It is all and nothing at the same time. It contains ALL including that which people call good and evil and many other dualities. The ALL just was but didn't knew that it was because it could not experience itself and had nothing to define itself by. It was All knowing, but had no wisdom.

It split itself up in order to experience itself. The all split itself up in many parts and thus the universes, the stars, the planets, the trees, seas, air, animals, people got made in this physical universe. But it also made the astral plains and all that is part of it. Everything is just a part of the all...we are all connected yet individual. And every little thing still has the godlike potential of the all and therefore we are gods in our own rights.

People created religions, beliefs, mythologies to give a human shape and personality traits to natural events which they could not understand and the same goes for psychological events which they could not understand yet as well as to make certain mysterious dissapearances and events in the social groupings understandable.

Budha, Jesus and whatever religious icon was here to spread a message, as a messenger, but they never said that man should worship them and form religions around them. They never said or asked to put another man on a platform higher then yourself. No it was mankind that created the religions while the teachings are that which we all have within ourselves. There won't be a new arrival of a messiah in the sense that there will be a physical being...no we're are slowly growing more capable of finding the "christ" within ourselves and finding the divinity in ourselves and connect ourselves with the All. People also expect to get fireworks in between 2006-2012 with the new messiah and new timeframe, but changes won't be that drastic. It took millenia for people to understand the messages given by the previous messiahs, and many still don't understand it. It needs time.

As for reincarnation. People claim they are here to learn. Partially this is so, but i find this a wrong choice of words. We're not here to learn new knowledge because we already know EVERYTHING. We are made in likeness of the ALL and posess excactely the same qualities. New-age groupings say to communicate with their Higher Selves and that it is the pure aspect of yourself and has all the knowledge you posess. Well, except for the terminology they use and the type of understanding they have...they are actually right in this regard. People already KNOW everything so there is nothing new to learn. What we are here to learn in each life time is to put our knowledge into practice and by doing so you will turn knowledge into wisdom. Knowledge is only knowing things in theory and thus you can't truly understand what something is...you have to experience it. What is the meaning of life... TO EXPERIENCE. and by doing so you will also have something to define yourself by. Any other purposes in life that people give themselves can all be traced back to what I just said. And through us The All can define itself and experience itself, because we're all connected yet individual.

People having lots of fame and money and seem great people doesn't mean they had great previous lives and positive karma so they get all the luck in the world. Not one bit. You create your own life and own events in life. So why have people a lot of # in their life? Because they desire so on their soul level. How can you understand what light and happiness is when you never understood what true darkness is? And you can't understand unless you experience it first hand. Now many religious followers will say NOT to go to the darkness..satan is there and blablabla. It's noncense. Your memory gets erased in the sense that you will live each experience and life as a new one and experience it as such and will seek new solutions to similar issues and see how they plan out. But you can not re-incarnate untill you are pure because you already are. You can re-incarnate untill you had enough, take a break and come back later.

The All is all encompassing and it has no duality of Good or Evil. As I said before mankind made those concepts of God/Satan and other dualities in order to understand that which they could not yet understand at that time. Unfortunately these images have lingered around for far too long, not just in christianity but many other religions as well.

A biblical anekdote here. An angel was standing in the sun and it was happy and said it was filled with light. God replied...but how do you know that it is light? to which the angel replied "Because you told me so father". God then send the angel to the darkest place he could think of and the angel started shouting "Oh father why have thou forsaken me". "Child I have not forsaken you because i'll always be with you. Walk the path that you choose and I will always walk beside you. You can find me in both light and dark so do not fear" said God to the angel. As time past by the angel finally came back to God and appreciated and understood what the light of the sun truly was. Simply put he had put knowledge into practice and thus turned it into wisdom.

Any specific questions would be nice else I'd be typing out way too much

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Enyalius]

Beautiful. It's nice to see more people that not only "get it" but can keep the ego out of it. Warms the soul I tell ya.

There is something I can't quite pull from your response. Are you saying the ALL is the entire physical/astral realm? Is the soul part of this? Or are you saying that the ALL is something beyond the physical/etheric? And the soul is beyond this as well? I'm just trying to see where you have the levels set. The thing that confused me was you saying that there is nothing beyond the pool and previously you stated that the pool was the astral. I may have read it wrong though. Thank you for any additional clarity.

[edit on 3/15/2006 by Arm Of Geddon]

In the "past" (As if a year is so long ago hehe) I was overloaded with a lot of information and experiences in a short time span. Giving it all a place was difficult and during that proces several of my interpetations were inaccurate and simply put...flawed at times.

The All is ALL...everything. It can be found in the physical world in which we live as well as the etherical/astral realms. It can be found in our souls as well. There are no levels or hierarchic structures other then that which man forms to make it all easier to understand. Everything coexcists alongside of one another. Everything comes from The All no matter which "level" you use.

Just some thoughts of my own to add. Nothing taking away from what you said. Just another way to say it.

I mention levels because since we are in the illusion of separation it becomes necessary to distinguish so that we can better understand the All and what has been created for the All to experience itself. I call the All the "infinite mind" (IM). An infinite mind that we All are and share. And from this mind comes complex thought forms. The thought forms are the IM in action. The area that some would call the void is the IM in potential. These thought forms then split themselves into more individualized thought forms we call souls. They did this in order to further increase the experience. The thought forms agreed that they wanted even more experience and so came into being the physical realm. A lower vibrational representation of the higher realm. The physical realm allowed for duality and free-will imposition. The astral is the soup of the physical. An energy bubble that expands as needed by the souls experiencing it. This vibrational level was stepped down even further to allow for even more illusionary divisions of the thought forms. This stepped down vibrational level is where we find our human bodies. This level allows for even stronger experiences such as death. But in the end, All is One. And One is Infinite.

You're better with words then I am

And it doesn't really matter what name you give to the beast. As long as the definitions of it are the same.

Originally posted by Enyalius
You're better with words then I am

And it doesn't really matter what name you give to the beast. As long as the definitions of it are the same.

I find that you are a person with great knownledge , I do not want to put out my lifestory now. So I will ask the question again :

When you are finally re-incarnated , you said that the memory gets ereased. But do you still find yourself as the person you are today ? I mean do you know yourself or will you be a complete different person , can you make up your own mind ?


Could you tell me something about what you practice ? I myself have found meditation greatly awarded to myself. I have always been facinated by Chi-gong / Qi-Gong , but I have not yet been able to try it out.

Great knowledge...keep saying that and I will re-grow my ego again

Your memory gets "erased" in the sense that your biological personality gets rid of. Your soul will keep the memories of the many lives it had, but you won't be able to acces them. Well that was the intend, but man evolved and grew in certain areas in which they were able to regress and remember parts of their past lives. The reason you're not supposed to remember is that you'd live in the past instead of the now. You'd use solutions from the past to solve issues in the now while it is intended to try out a different solution and experience how that'll work out. Next to that people could bare grudges against people who killed them in a past life or try to stalk some lover from their past.

Your biological ego and personality will be gotten rid of and your soul will create a new body and new personality in a new life and surrounding. In the next life you will be different then you are now just as how you will be different every few years when you gained new knowledge and experiences in life which make you look at events differently.

You will be able to recognize souls, even if they are re-incarnated. Every soul has some form of...uhm...signature? (lack of better wording). Due to this signature you will be able to recognize anyone. Many don't on a concious level, but you might feel a strong feeling of familiarity even though you never met someone or been to a certain place during the current life time.

Like to place 2 sidenotes here

1. Karma
There is no ancient karma that needs to be lifted each life time nor is there a three fold law that hunts you when you do something "wrong". This is because right and wrong does not excist. Not going into that whole duality thing again...you either understand it by now or you don't. For those who don't I participate in that discussion as Sabazel.

Anyway we create our own lives and thus are responsible for our own creation of it and within it. The Law of Attraction enters the picture here...you get what your energy field vibrates out towards the universe. If you do something that doesn't correspond with your personal beliefs and desires you might end up feeling guilty about your actions. By doing so your energy field will adjust to what your emotions feel and thus you will attract more of it. Thus relatively bad things will come onto your life path and you will say..."Oh it is karma that hits me in the face". Sure it is

2. Soul Mates.
People say that there is someone for everone. This is true, but not in the way they think. Nothing is pre-set in the sense that your partner is known at the time of your birth. You will meet people and can form relationships with each of them ranging from friendships to more. Depending how those relations work out depends on the ego's and personalities in play. There is more then just 1 person that is compatible with you.

Also don't have any expectations in a relationship and accept someone for who they are both their positive as negative aspects. DO NOT...EVER try to change someone. They will change when they want to themselves. Most relations fail because a partner has expectations and the other individual can't live up to those expectations and thus frustration builds up and people break up.

People still have a lot to learn when it comes to the christian phrase "Don't judge unless you want to be judges". People judge each other constantly with every opinion they form about someone else. It's a nasty habit to break through.


What do I practice? I call myself "A solitary practitioner of life". This means I practice life in all it shapes and systems and experience it as much as I can from as many angels as possible...and I do this solitary without being part of a group, alliance or coven.

I started with metaphysical and esoterical practices such as delving into the paranormal and experimenting with Automatic Writing, Medium techniques, Reiki and more. After that I had a period in which I explored many religions, faiths, belief systems both from the West as the East. This lead me to finally find my current place in the occult. With the occult I've been able to study and experience a lot ranging from many religions, psychology, theology, alchemy, kaballah, philosophy, art, performing regular rituals and much much much more. Basically everyone follows their own path and you will find what you need when you need it. This varies per person and which methodology and terminology speaks to them and for me that means the occult. For someone else it might be a certain religious path or a mundane path. Everyone is active whether they are open to the idea or not. Everyone does it their own way. Personally I find various meditation techniques helpfull and eyeopeners as well from time to time.

Only difference with mundane people and "awakened" people as that mundane people aren't aware of what they are doing.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Enyalius]

Enyalius, is there a possible explanation to the phenomenon known as "stigmata?" You know, when people all of a sudden start bleeding where Christ were supposed to have bled (I mean, assuming Christ isn't a real "God")?

Also, why does Chaos have to exist? Why can't the entities on Chaos' side just switch over to the Order? Why must there be a balance between the two?

EDIT: As an Athiest, this is GREAT reading! I feel I can read all about this stuff everyday! Keep 'em coming, Enyalius... keep sharing and keep typing!

[edit on 15-3-2006 by swi7ch]

First, let it be known that my intent is not to "convert" you to Christianity, or any other religion - it is only to point out many inconsistencies in your "experience".

1. You continually say that "Reiki" is not a religion. I even see that on their site they say the same thing. However, by definition, it is a religion. There is a seemingly large following. There are manuals that can be purchased to teach others. So, if it walks like a duck...

2. They specificially talk about the difficulties of explaining Reiki to Christians. You seem to harbor a hatred towards Christianity. It almost seems to be not only a religion, but a cult following of people who hate Christianity. Hmmmm... doesn't seem like a "spiritually guided life force energy", as much as a "hate guided life style".

3. You have mentioned several times that there is no God. That's funny because I found this quote on their website: "Because Reiki comes from God, many people find that using Reiki puts them more in touch with the experience of their religion rather than having only an intellectual concept of it." Your unraveling here, buddy.

4. For this one, I'll quote you first:

Originally posted by Enyalius
I also got a weird note about the Pope, that died yesterday R.I.P. I was told he couldn't go untill he was done, seems he was done faster then expected. Something I didn't ask for knowing, because I simply don't care. And I wondered...why use such a religious figure for a prophecy when it's a false religion. Only answer I could come up with myself is that; the pope has 20% of the global population which he can influence. Of that 20% are many people in high positions like prime ministers or business men who can causes wrimples, like a stone that hits water, causing more people then just the starting 20% to follow. so Order probably needed someone with lots of influence. Hmm...we'll see.

Now, I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here. But, it sounds like whoever wanted to take the Pope (a Catholic figure that you dispise, BTW) was taking him for reasons of gathering the 20% of the populous to follow them. If this isn't "heaven" or "hell" in the sense that most think of them, and the afterlife is just energies of order and chaos, and a universal "pool", why then, do they need followers?

I await your answer.

What was that again that the serpent said to eve in the Garden?

Hmmmm, let me think. Oh yah, You will not surely die; God konws that in the day that you eat the fruit you will be like God.

By the way, you'll know it when you die; you won't come back!

@swi7ch

Stigmata is something I can't say anything about. Simply because I know nothing about it other then that which is general knowledge.

However a lot of "wounds" and "ilnesses" come from not only living an unhealthy live, but also on how you treat yourself emotionally. The way you treat yourself...certain ways are pollution and hurts you. Psychology can explain this as well. Emotional issues having physical expressions of it. Whether this also applies to Stigmata I honestly don't know.

As for Chaos/Order. As I explained in a post or 2 before... A year Ago I got filled with a lot of info in one go and interpetating it all was difficult. Thus certain interpetations at that time were flawed. Order and Chaos is one of them, and in indirectly relates to the dualism of Good/Evil. Both don't excist and are a temporary state which can shift and change. One can become the other because the state of somethig is just a temporary one and can be changed. Just how people can change if they want to.

And for you as an Atheist. Religion, Paranormal, Magick, Esoteric...A lot talk about the same stuff, with the same definitions but each uses their own terminology and has their own way of making their knowledge known to the people and each presents it in their own way which appeals to some people and not to others. Science is the same as well and has "proven" a lot, but not everything. Many "demons" from religions and magickal rituals can be explained by psychology for excample, but not all.

Being a Magus, A bishop, An atheist, a scientist or whatever...They are all practitioners of life in their own right.

@VeeTwin60

The quotes are old ones. And I'll say it again, All the knowledge I have gained I've interpetated properly now and also gained new insights and knowledge which caused me to look at certain things differently. Please keep that in mind with the following answers and that they will probably have conflicts here and there with what I explained a year ago.

1. Reiki is something I've done for a while, but I've experienced it as a stepping stone to the next phase of my life. Even though I've gained the master degree in it (man made grades really don't mean anything) I rarely use it any more.

I can see why you would say that Reiki is a religion. There are books and there are followers, however to be a religion you need 1 book that is seen as the holy book with all the teachings in it as well as a leading figure worshipped/followed as a type of guru. Neither of those are present within the Reiki stream. It is actually a lifephilosophy and for those there are many books and followers as well...look at wicca, shamanism, druidism for excample. Those are not religions either, but a way of life...a philosophy of life. Very nuance differences.

2. It is true that I harbored a hatred to Christians, but I've stopped. Why should I share my views with people who don't even bother listening? Why would I harbor negative emotions which will cause my energy field to adjust to those emotions and I'd only attract more of it in my life? By hating them I'd be harming myself...so I've stopped. I even went as far as to forgive them for their ignorance. Not because I feel superior, but due to the lack that people have which follow any one specific path without even bothering to looking into other paths of life...yet are able to condem the others. I even had pleasant discussions with christian bishops and jewish rabbi's. During my scholarary studies I've also noticed that many religions have many things in commen whether they see it themselves or not. Christianity for excample has more paganistic influences and teachings and icons then they accept.

It's not Christianity I look down upon, because which teachings and philosophies don't have flaws one way or another. I do have huge questionmarks at the majority of it's followers.

Reiki has become a new-age esoterical "hype" and I can agree that there are a lot of people that harbor some form of negative feelings towards organised religions. So be it, but they are doing excactely the same. Just to remind you...I no longer follower this path and have moved on. First you'd have to look at what New-Age truly is. I see it as an age of thieves and misguided souls that try to find something to hold onto, but that is my personal opinion.

New-Age consists of esoterical aspects which have been practiced for centuries in the east such as Reiki, Chakra's, meditation, Yoga and Tantric aspects. Then they copied parts of the occult practices such as Tarot for excample. New-Age has nothing new to add except their vague terminology and the fact people talk in a way that shows they have no underlying understanding of the phrases they use. Simply because they take everything way to literal while there is a lot of symbolic meaning present. When you look at the books they are all copies of one another and no one tries to question what is written down. They behave just like organised religions do. Due to all this bad copying many other paths like Neo-Paganism, Neo-Druidism, Wicca, Neo-Witchcraft etc all think that they are a part of the New-Age...this saddens me slightly. I see the new-age as a virus, like a bad cold. One day you'll wake up and feel all better again, untill then you just have to endure it.

3. I mention that there is no God according to christian standards, although that which I have written sounds very similar. The All is all encompassing and is ALL. Mankind created God/Satan and many other godly deities which only represent one aspect of the All.

Reiki practitioners believe to use energy given by God, but as I said they are misguided. They just copy anything they see and do a bad job at that. They don't question what is written and rarely to never go to do self research of what it truly is. Many people also think they are indigo children and special or naturals with energy work and don't have to practice or dedicate themselves to something. Lazy, growingly arrogant, people that can't do what they think and just copy what others say or write in order to keep up the farce. This you can also see with many charlatans at paranormal fairs.

Reiki doesn't work as many practitioners and self-proclaimed "Masters" assume. In the East there was Usui who didn't get any initiations and went to self explore and find his way to unlock his own fivinity and connect with The All. He could've used already excisting meditation or Yogic techniques but he choose to find his own way. After years of study, experimenting, meditation he found what he was looking for. Later this practice got the label of Reiki. But why do people in the West need initiations when in the East no one did? Inition is not to get connected to some energy force (money scams)...no it means taking the first step onto a certain path and follow through with dedication.

I do agree that when I started doing reiki I was able to experience many aspects that were written about. But these experiences you can achieve through other means as well. Occasional meditation, OBE's, Yoga etc. Anything that allows you to unlock your own divinity or lets you travel to the so called Astral World.

4. My viewpoints on Christianity, in all it's shapes, were given before so I shall move on to the question.

Messiah never needed followers. Never do they profess the need of followers. They shall share their wisdom which can benefit mankind. It is the people who formed religions around these wise people. You are right when saying "Why does anyone even need followers?". Then I will return that question with the following "Why do people seek someone to follow?". The messiah's all professed NOT to put any other individual higher then yourself or idolize them...and what do we do? People are perfectly capable of finding "christ" (divinity) within themselves and use it, but they choose not to. Mainly deu to ignorance and the other aspect related to the amount of responsibility that comes with it and the fear of doing something "wrong" and break something. Which seems to far outweigh the physical, emotional, psychological and material freedoms it'll bring.

The Pope just had some organisatorical things to get straight before he could go. Next to that he was also worried about leaving the world behind in capable hands. In his personal life there were no restrictions, fears and such that kept him here for so long. Basically a human thing.

Hope that showed you what you wanted.

[edit on 16-3-2006 by Enyalius]