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Death: About heaven and hell

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posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by llpoolej
I am alright in print, but my real life needs some work.


Ditto! But by printing, I hear it, see it, experience it, and most of all - remember it when I need to apply it. In order to form a good habit, it must first be in the ears, mind and mouth. It's only then that the body follows.


Originally posted by llpoolej
I know where I fail(and I am sure I fail in areas I don't even realize) I have met a few very very exemplary Christians, one Catholic, and one Presbyterian. Both were kind, didn't gossip, would give you the shirt off your back while never judging you.


Awesome!


Originally posted by llpoolej
I am not exemplary.


Exemplary means commendable, serving as an example or illustration. In fact, I voted you for 'Way Above Top Secret' for this month. As you are a giver, you're also a receiver. James 2:12 "Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him". Take then this compliment as a microscopic 'thank you' for the doing of His works in the meantime, until His never-ending reward comes.


Originally posted by llpoolej
Number one of all, I am waaaay to gossipy!


The more people are around you and the more interest you have in them, the more the tendency is to do so. The trick is to remember what mama said, "if you can't say anything nice than don't say it at all". A step further, if you feel love for that person, it will come through in trying to help them, not condemning them. How would you talk about that person to God? Why would it be different when talking to another person? It isn't easy to speak poorly of others because we tend to notice people's faults first, overlooking all the wonderful qualities they possess.


Originally posted by llpoolej
I would hate for me, the real life me, to be what all Christians are judged by.


We all fall short, by definition of who we are as Christians. If being gossipy is your greatest sin, would you like to hear the list of mine? I'm sure it'll make you feel a lot better about yourself...



Originally posted by llpoolej
If Christians were analogous to show dogs, I would be pet quality!


Humility is admirable, but remember God has such value in all who love him that He's willing to share everlasting joy.


[edit on 8-4-2005 by saint4God]




posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
but I find God very liberating, not having to carry around spite, anger, selfishness, hate, jealousy, fear, and pride. Being free of these things was the best thing that could have ever happened to me because what's left is love, faith, hope, joy, and compassion.

Does hearing yourself say "sheep" and "fantasy book" give you a sense of superiority?


[edit on 8-4-2005 by saint4God]


sorry doesn't cut it, not after what christians did. and not just the followers either. I don't have to make myself "feel" superior because i already am. i say whats on my mind and i'm not a hypocrite. i'm not blind as to say that certains gifts are given by the devil while instead they are a blessing from "god". even though it's not god but what the heck...saying sheep and fantasy book is just calling as it is.

even how christianity started is one big farce. but like i said...if you like to live a life as a hypocrite believing in something that isn't correct just to feel better about yourself. be free...i'm not the one wasting life time after life time trying to become more spiritual. if you want to waste time even after the knowledge i shared...i did my part so i'm not to blame any more for mistakes made by people.

just experiencing everything i have, even the things before death, has proven and shown me so much. i know i'm right about almost anything. like i said this isn't something only I can experience. anyone in control of their own energies can explore and find it out themselves. find out what your true meaning in life is etc.

as for being drunk, only thing that does to me is see things in 4-fold. unless i go over board, unplanned and then pass out. but then i don't remember a thing unlike now.

and like i said, i am openminded. i listen and don't discard anything, that is untill i learned enough about it. in that case i either respect it or it's utter #. and christianity isn't something i'm gonna show respect. and why do i say american christians are worse then any other on this planet? because they are way to concervative and they ARE close minded. they are very close to being fundamentalists even. it's not healthy, they're a threat.

so the only correct thing from llpoolej's post would be: "To me, it is much easier to be a "free thinker" to NOT practice Christianity. To do whatever I want and to be "enlightened".

but we're drifting off topic i feel. people trying to defend their religion. and seeing how ignorance annoys me, saint4god. i enjoy debates like llpoolej but saint4god is just annoying, way to closed. go quote the bible or something and feel better.

i'm not saying that suddenly i know everything, but i sure as hell know a lot more then i used to and more then most do.

Spirituality and paranormal phenomena go very close together. religion has nothing to do with anything except to give yourself hope to do something. but everything comes within and a strong individual can find it themselves.

so i can give only this advice. start practicing reiki and experiment with paranormal activity. such as seeing ghosts/entities, having OBE's etc. make sure you're strong in mind so that you can ignore the voices in the back of your head and make your own decisions. there is no right or wrong, just you and the decisions you make. and of course let go of any form of religion. spiritual growth is what matters, not being part of some society accepted cult.

for the rest i don't have anything of interest to share. unless you're interested in galaxies and re-incarnation, regression into previous life and how "fate" works.

[edit on 8-4-2005 by Enyalius]

[edit on 8-4-2005 by Enyalius]

[edit on 8-4-2005 by Enyalius]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Enyalius
I don't have to make myself "feel" superior because i already am.

if you want to waste time even after the knowledge i shared...i did my part so i'm not to blame any more for mistakes made by people.

just experiencing everything i have, even the things before death, has proven and shown me so much. i know i'm right about almost anything.

To do whatever I want...

... i sure as hell know a lot more then i used to and more then most do.

make sure you're strong in mind so that you can ignore the voices in the back of your head and make your own decisions. there is no right or wrong, just you and the decisions you make.

but saint4god is just annoying, way to closed. go quote the bible or something


Sure thing, glad you offered. These come to mind from James chapter 4:

"God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble"

"Brothers, do not slander one another."

"But you- who are you to judge your neighbor?"

I don't feel better though, as you've said quoting scripture does, because it seems I've failed to help. You've said 'sorry doesn't cut it' and that's all I think I can offer right now, but if you think of something that does, please let me know.

[edit on 8-4-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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@Enyalius

What does Reiki teach about Love and Humility?



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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@Enyalius

All I'm going to say is...
.

To everyone else:
I have died and come back as well, and Enyalius tells no lies.

[edit on 9-4-2005 by BrokenWings8604]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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Hold on a second...

I could send twenty dollars to Jerry Fallwell or Pat Roberts, and ask for a miracle to heal my tumor...

Or I could send the same twenty dollars to my local Reiki ministry and ask for their fabulous audio tapes detailing the process to heal my own tumor...

Or..wacky thought..I could simply accept the fact we live in hell and go about the process of taking control of my own destiny and coming to terms with my own existence...

I've examined the first two options, and I still like my faith best. Religion is a creation of man, it's impure and unnatural. Faith is nature's gift to mankind, use it or lose it. And please, don't confuse the two. That's like failing to recognize the difference between the DMV and a long, straight country road.

Preachers are preachers..it doesn't matter if they smack you in the forehead (like some down-home, tent-dwelling preachers do) or massage your nethers (like some pseudo-spiritual, pseudo-new-age, pseudo-gurus might)... Bottom line, if they're trying to sell you something, beat feet. If salvation could be had for 19.95 and a SASE don't you think mankind would be off this rock?

Talk to God yourself, heal yourself with will and knowledge, stop with the fruitless attempts to escape from death (it aint gonna happen no matter how hard you run), and for the love of all that's holy, flush the middlemen already - don't allow someone to hijack your faith. If some guy walked up to you on the street, stole your liver, and then offered to sell it back to you, what would you do? The smart ones are visualizing a donkey punch to the back of the thief's head, followed by a snatching-back of that which was stolen. The foolish ones are reaching for their wallets while admiring the symetry of the still-dripping organ.


Mankind may never change, the world may never be paradise again, but us individuals always have power more than sufficient to shatter the glass and see what's on the other side.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:00 AM
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@Raphael

Reiki is not a religion yet the amount of "followers" is growing rapidly lately. as we know, everything is made up from energy. people have a lot of energy within themselves, which they can utilize in many ways.

reiki teaches you how to get to know and control the energy within yourself. you can open your chakra's and cleanse them. you can use energy to increase healing rate and if you are more of an advanced user of reiki you can even heal cancer and such. however i'm not certain about healing cancer because i haven't experienced this myself, but i can agree on the fact that you can increase the healing rate of regular wounds as well as ease pains.

you can use these energies to see other entities if you wish. be more in control and have no need to be affraid of experimenting with paranormal phenomena.

during meditation and obe's, which will be a lot easier with reiki, you can go to the higher realms and experience most of what i've said yourself. you will find the answers you seek yourself.

you also learn how to find an enthereal guide, "angel" so the speak, who will assist you to achieve your potential. instead of giving you straight answers they'll make you think for yourself more then you ever have and basically push you to your limits, in a good way.

what will it teach about love and humility...quite a lot i'd say. most forms of reiki work with 4 stages. each stage has a set of goals you have to meet before moving on. this way you won't be overwhelmed by everything at once and this is also why it takes years. similar to monks in tibet spending their life time on mastering it.

reiki only teaches you to master the energies within yourself and gives you enough information for you to get started on. after that you're on your own with your own guide.

first stage you learn to use energy directly. meaning you have to touch something before the energy can go through it. you will also be taught the basics about karma. what goes around comes around. if you use reiki to hurt someone, you will be hurt in return. you will learn humility quite fast when you find out that you're not in control of everything.

second stage teaches you how to be able to use reiki by forming a "bridge". you can use reiki on people from a distance, perform regression into past lifes etc etc. here is where you will learn that what you do in previous lives, and are unfinished, will come with you into the next life. obstacles you must overcome whether you like it or not. you will also learn how the chakra's work and how to start meditation.

by going back into previous lifes...and having occasional visions. you will learn that fate is an odd little thing. there are people who say everything is set in stone, while others say you're the one in control. both are right and wrong. fate is like a road with a lot of side streets. you are in control of making decisions whether to do something or not. each decision will lead you into a new street with a different future then the other street. however, some events in life are important for your personal growth. those events ARE set in stone and you will meet them no matter which street you take. this is why visions on short term can be quite accurate, but the further you look into the future the less accurate you will be.

this is where the true lessons begin. you can "travel" and experience emotions and feelings, you will gain knowledge as well. this is all you need in order to learn all about life. love, humility, war, emotions...everything.

i personally flew right through these first 2 stages within a matter of weeks. but after that i had a problem. i was incapable of feeling unconditional love and trust. so i meditated on it a lot, communicated with my guide about it. a long time past but eventually you will learn and then you can move ahead again.

understand that reiki will take a long time and you can do it at your own pace. but also...everyone who has opened themselves to the energies will be open to it in their next lives as well and start sooner and sooner working with energies. and eventually, after A LOT of reincarnations, you will be able to understand it all and become an "angel" yourself. it'll also teach you how to utilise the "paranormal" gifts everyone is born with. just because some choose not to believe nor use them, or call it demons work...thats up to them.

also this can be done along side of any other form of religion or whatever you do.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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mankind found cures to most...big problem. now even the weak can survive and the balance is upset. the souls won't come back to the pool when they were ment to be and re-incarnated to this planet, or another. so natural disasters came into play to kill people and restore balance.

Enyalius, you say that natural Disasters come into play to kill excess number of people so balance can be restored. So doesn't that imply that a higher Being like God would be at work to invoke such natural diasasters like tsunamis or earthquakes? Someone or something would have to think of ways to lower the numbers of people, how long we live, and when we die; and that would imply a state of intelligence and power. such as God.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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not god. i already said it's something else.

god/allah and whatever godlike persona are manmade. different cultures interpret(sp?) this "pool" (lack of a better word) in different ways and come to their own conclusions which are all...incomplete to say the least.

gods are made by people so people can identify with something and can make it easier to define "good" and "evil" so they can control society easier.

but like i said it's not a god and there is no good or evil by which matters are dealt with. it's Chaos and Order that matter. and each has good and bad aspects.

using natural disasters to restore/maintain Order so that everything stays balanced is a good thing, but according to human standards it's wrong and evil to kill and take lives. a double edged sword...



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 10:43 AM
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so does this "pool" have intelligence, Is it alive,? does it asign our souls to mortal lives? , punish the bad and good? Is this what you see? Just trying to get a better picture of what you interpret.

[edit on 9-4-2005 by niato007]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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it's hard to put it into words but i'll give it my best.

the function of the "pool" is to maintain balance and Order throughout the universes and galaxies. it's not responsible for good or evil because those are manmade concepts.

it makes sure that the resources of a planet aren't used up to fast or the population grows to fast. and not just humanoids but other living things as well.

it makes sure that the amount of souls are distributed equally onto many planets. anyone reading this could've been on another planet as another being in their past life. when it's your time to die you will die...only thing man can do is prolong it needlesly. causing only harm to the individual that is ment to die. it's quite selfish of people to keep a loved one alive when they're dying. now suicides are just stupid and weak minded people who are easily persuaded by chaotic entities.

it seemed to be well protected by very bright "pure" lighted entities. these entities are much more then mere angels. they are souls from individuals that have learned so much throughout their lives that they are enlightened. they have the choice to re-incarnate or stay as energy entities. they can basically do almost anything they want. then there are "not so enlightened" entities which fulfill roles as guides. a medium for excample can communicate with these. but with proper training anyone can channel a guide.

i didn't get to close to it. just like meeting the dense concentration of Chaotic entities i didn't feel like getting close to Order entities. both didn't feel right to me personally. With Order i didn't feel right because i didn't want to become one with them and give up parts of my individuality and thoughts. well i'm not enlightened enough so i'd probably wouldn't even be accepted to join, but still... maybe that feeling was because it wasn't my time to join yet. but it does feel liberating and peacefull when all things come into place like an orderly fashion. just go with the flow, hehe

so yes this "pool" has intelligence. it is "alive" but not in the conventional way as us because it excists on another realm of reality. and it doesn't punish the bad and good because it's ment to keep everything in balance/Order. even Chaos which most people see as demons arent evil nor good. they're just there to live in chaos and try people to persuade them in living in a similar fashion.

after all, we do hear voices in our head from time to time offering us ways to do something. and then you make a decision if you do or don't. depending on your decision you're the one doing something good or bad according to human standard. not the universal standard because there is no right or wrong. everything has a purpose, just depends on your own view whether its good or not.

take my excample of people dying by a natural disaster. on one hand you have nature cleaning up the weak individuals. gathering their souls in order to re-incarnate them on this planet or elsewhere. then from human point you don't want deaths so try to find ways to defy nature. nature will then make worse disasters or just create deceases(sp?). in the end we'll lose anyway because the entire universe will be reborn again and physical evolution will start from scratch again

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Enyalius]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Prayer is free. Anyone who charges you to pray for you, is not someone who you want praying for you anyhow. I could call up any church and be asked to be added to their prayer list. I would be, whether I was affiliated with the church or not(I have done so)

Prayer can heal. I know it can. I have living proof of it. Why my prayer was answered, I am not sure. One of my children was born dead. AKA not alive. Took quite awhile to resucitate him. Due to the lack of oxygen at birth, there were some really frightening questions about brain damage.

My inlaws are very religious and had intense prayer chains going. I had asked people to pray for him. My mother had people praying for him. Truly people praying across the country.

He was a very intense baby. Would stare straight through you. Almost creepy how aware he was. He seemed to develop just like any other baby and all seemed well

At 12 months, he had an MRI done. The entire white matter is damaged. White matter controls motor skills. By the MRI, he should do *nothing*. He should be wheelchair bound. The dr who read the report was truly shocked. He does have a foot that turns in. But, other than that, is a normal child going into kindergarten next year.

From personal experience, calling on God brings about a sense of peace that I can't describe. During the low points of my life, though I may not be HAPPY, I do feel at peace.

I can't say exactly what heaven and hell is. I do think it is (heaven) being with God, and (hell) being apart from God. Who goes? That is not for me to make such decisions or judgements. I do know I want me and mine to go to heaven, so I have taken the path I feel is correct. No, I don't think all paths lead to the same end. Though I do not feel I can say that everyone EXCEPT X group is going to hell.

I have more respect for those that say I believe XYZ than I do for those that say, I believe that all people are correct. The reason for that, is most beliefs cannot co-exist with other. You can't believe very strongly if you think everyone is correct. I think it is a cop out to say I believe everything. Much easier and seems to please most everyone

Yes, I believe in God, I believe in Heaven and Hell. I believe in the power of prayer. I believe in worshiping together as a family and as a congregation. Maybe hell is just nothingness. Maybe hell is being condemned to walk the earth as a ghost. I really don't know.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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Ok this is a very deep and intriguing way to look at Life After Death. Good Point. But Lets's through a twist in this logic. How do we explain then sightings of Angels or the Famous Fatima sightings seen by the 3 children at the same time? They said they saw the Virgin Mary and spoke to her at the same time without going through a Death experience. I guess i'm trying to look at this from many angles................I should perhaps stop thinking on this subject any more.......gonna get a headache!
We'll never know for sure until we die and experience it first hand.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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Dude, you didn't die, you may have lapsed out but you did not die. When you die, you are to a point of being dead and therefore your body's systems are completely shut down and cannot be revived on your own power. Look, you obviously are anti-theistic and that's fine. But you are not an expert on death or afterlife simply because of your experience. It's your word against people with similar experiences who happen to be Christian, Muslim, and probably every other religion on the globe. And the Bible is not a manual that explains exactly what happens after death step by step, it just says that everyone will be judged, hell and heaven could be largely metaphorical but I am sure that some other dimension lies after death and the one you enter is according to the judgment you receive, even Hinduism has a system like that except based on reincarnation.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by niato007
Ok this is a very deep and intriguing way to look at Life After Death. Good Point. But Lets's through a twist in this logic. How do we explain then sightings of Angels or the Famous Fatima sightings seen by the 3 children at the same time? They said they saw the Virgin Mary and spoke to her at the same time without going through a Death experience. I guess i'm trying to look at this from many angles................I should perhaps stop thinking on this subject any more.......gonna get a headache!
We'll never know for sure until we die and experience it first hand.


Entities of Order show themselves at times when needed. usually they take on appearances that people are familiar with. they do this to make you more comfortable and also so that you can understand what you see. if you just see a ball of energy you'd probably got no idea whats going on for sure. it could be an alien or anything.

not everyone can see entities, well they got the potential to, but not everyone is open to see the energies at different vibrations. children are still connected to the energies and can see them. so when they say they seen a fairy, goblin, ghosts or whatever, try to have an open mind. this is because they are still filled with the energy they got from the "pool". you basically wash in it for a while and come back when you're clean again hehe.

as for me being dead or not. i can easily proof, to anyone near me, that i am. simply because i recieved a letter from the hospital days after they let me out. a letter with the state i came in, what happened etc. this letter was then ment to be given to my doctor so i did. guess what..everything did shut down...my brain, my heart, my lungs. i wasn't on the machines for nothing when i came to after 5-6 hours of being comatose after the revival.

as to the claim whether i'm a sudden expert or not. it's true i don't know everything. and the things i dont know anything about i keep my mouth shut about it. things that i do know, i share.

but it's typical though...you go to an insurance company to get your life insurance paid out....even got official lettres...but you're not getting a dime hehe.


hindu's actually got the concept correct, but misunderstood it as well. you do indeed go up in spiritual rank each life time you get re-incarnated. you learn from previous lives and such (at least i hope you learn from it). but you don't start as a fly and work your way up each life time hehe.

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Enyalius]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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@Enyalius

You said each is free to choose whether they use the gifts within them. What makes your choice to use them superior?

Good and Evil or Chaos and Order-- both require definitions of perception. What exactly makes Chaos and Order "real "and Good and Evil "not real"?



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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@llpoolej

i understand what you're saying. i can even vouch for the fact that your kid is healthy after all those trials. but it's not due to prayer. it may seem that way but there is more to it.

as i explained everything is made up from energy. you used prayer as a tool to allow yourself to channel your energy and used it to "heal" your child. but your energy alone wasn't enough, because you're simply not someone who works with energy conciously...am i correct? therefore you're unable to channel all your energy effectively.

luckily you had lots of other people 'praying" and sending their energy over to heal your kid.

god and such had nothing to do with it, other then initially allowing people to use energy from within themselves (and if really needed from the "pool" itself as well). but i'm sure that due to this action you gained lots of karma points in the balance of life
and good things will/already have come to all that helped.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
@Enyalius

You said each is free to choose whether they use the gifts within them. What makes your choice to use them superior?

Good and Evil or Chaos and Order-- both require definitions of perception. What exactly makes Chaos and Order "real "and Good and Evil "not real"?


each individual is born with the ability to use telekineses, telepathy and such. however a lot of people, after a certain age, discard it all as fiction and thus refuse the excistence of it all. foresight will be seen as a mere deja-vu for excample.

to train in the usage of these gifts doesn't make you superior. after all we're still at that evolutionairy step where we're just discovering it. so mastering it will take some time.

if you choose to accept the fact that you can do stuff beyond that of what we know today, then you are further in evolution then most ppl. it doesnt make you superior, just makes you take the needed step that others will do to...but a bit later.

only thing, that from which i could gather, is that these gifts will allow you to have more insight in global events which will lead to a more peacefull and more technologically advanced mankind. because unlike now, where people are sharing their own theories and such, people can easily find out whether someone is telling the truth or not.

as for the second part of your post...i didnt get it. english isnt my first language and the sentence build up confused me there.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:58 PM
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We can politely and in a friendly way agree to disagree. I *do* believe the healing came from God, due to people praying for my child. I believe MANY of my prayers have been answered(about money, life needs, marriage, ect
The answers sometimes come in ways I would not have chosen for myself, but the end result is the answer to my prayers.

As strongly as you feel there is no God, I feel there is. I feel the presence of God in the same way I do my friends and family. Just because someone is not visible right in front of me, doesn't mean they are any less real

What goes around comes around is true enough. Believe me. I do believe in that. No matter what adjective that is used to describe it!



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Enyalius
to train in the usage of these gifts doesn't make you superior.


Why then did you say, "I don't have to make myself 'feel' superior because i already am."?



as for the second part of your post...i didnt get it. english isnt my first language and the sentence build up confused me there.


No problem. You speak english well. Let me try again.

Earlier you said "as i said in my main post, there is no Good or Evil. there is only Order and Chaos."

It has been said that there is no is good or evil because they is open for interpretation based on one's views (what one can see as good, another can see as evil). What makes Order and Chaos different from this?




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