Senemut Astronomical Ceiling Turns the World on its Head

Are you deflecting his question?

a reply to: Phage

a reply to: Dalamax

No.

I'm pointing out that "ancient traditions" do not necessarily represent reality. There's a tradition that a big blue ox helped create the Grand Canyon, for example. Not an ancient tradition, granted, but a fun story.

I'm implying that the artwork in question may not be meant to represent astronomical reality. I wonder what those who can actually read hieroglyphics have to say about it.


Clear enough for you?

What do you reckon may have flipped the Earth?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Scott Creighton

f the Earth was inverted, as many ancient traditions tell us and as the Senemut Ceiling appears to show us

Ancient traditions also tell us the Earth is flat.

This is nothing but deflection. If you do your research properly, you'll find that the ancients knew the world was round and that the Flat Earth Society actually exits today.

Do you think the bottom panel is an accurate representation of the night sky, astronomically?

It's the top (southern) panel that shows us the planets, Orion, Sirius and the ecliptic.

What do you reckon turned the world over?

The mechanism of an Earth inversion is an entirely different question as to whether it actually occurred or not. In my view there are simply too many ancient texts from all over the world tell us it did occur and, taken together with what we observe on the Senemut Ceiling, I think makes a compelling case that it DID occur. The mechanism is a separate issue.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

If you do your research properly, you'll find that the ancients knew the world was round

All of them?

It's the top (southern) panel that shows us the planets, Orion, Sirius and the ecliptic.

And your assumption is that it is an accurate representation of the sky rather than serving some other, more esoteric purpose.

The mechanism of an Earth inversion is an entirely different question as to whether it actually occurred or not.

No, it's rather important, actually.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Dalamax


I'm implying that the artwork in question may not be meant to represent astronomical reality. I wonder what those who can actually read hieroglyphics have to say about it.

Alexander Pogo was an Egyptologist and he could read hieroglyphics:



SC

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Scott Creighton


SC: If you do your research properly, you'll find that the ancients knew the world was round

Phage: All of them?

SC: "All of them"? That's just silly. Is there a point to this? Fact is - the ancients worked out the circumference of the Earth to a very high degree of accuracy. Do you dispute that?

SC: It's the top (southern) panel that shows us the planets, Orion, Sirius and the ecliptic.

Phage: And your assumption is that it is an accurate representation of the sky rather than serving some other, more esoteric purpose.

So the scholar Pogo didn't know what he was talking about then? I am merely asking questions of what has already been determined as fact by Egyptologists, to wit:

SC: The mechanism of an Earth inversion is an entirely different question as to whether it actually occurred or not.
Phage: No, it's rather important, actually.

I didn't say it wasn't important. I said it was "an entirely different question as to whether it actually occurred or not." One step at a time.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Alexander Pogo was an Egyptologist and he could read hieroglyphics:

Great.

I know that Veliskovsky put great significance in that passage from Pogo's essay. I don't suppose you have a link to the entire paper? Did Pogo think the artwork was meant as an accurate astronomical representation?

One step at a time.

Yes. Indeed. One should first have physical evidence that such a world changing event happened at all. Something more than 20th century cherry picking of folktales, loose interpretations, and fabrications to support one's hypothesis. Veliskovsky tried hard but the laws of physics are well enforced. Venus did not originate from Jupiter, did not careen around the Solar System, and did not invert Earth.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Scott Creighton

Alexander Pogo was an Egyptologist and he could read hieroglyphics:

Great.

I know that Veliskovsky put great significance in that passage from Pogo's essay. I don't suppose you have a link to the entire paper? Did Pogo think the artwork was meant as an accurate astronomical representation?

One step at a time.

Yes. Indeed. One should first have physical evidence that such a world changing event happened at all. Something more than 20th century cherry picking of folktales (and fabrication) to support one's hypothesis.

Clearly Pogo found the ceiling "objectionable" because Orion appeared to be moving east, in the wrong direction. Because Pogo never considered the possibility that the Earth might once have been upside-down. And thus, the ceiling made no sense to him. Velikovsky, who knew all about the ancient traditions that have been passed down to us that tell us of such an occurrence could immediately see the solution that Pogo, in his fixed uniformitarian mind, simply could not:



SC

I'm implying that the artwork in question may not be meant to represent astronomical reality. I wonder what those who can actually read hieroglyphics have to say about it.

Do AE have a tendency to do this sort of artwork and have it NOT represent astronomical reality?

Dunno what may have flipped the Earth,
never really thought about it but it does make for some interesting discourse.

a reply to: Phage

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Scott Creighton


One should first have physical evidence that such a world changing event happened at all.

Physical evidence? I give you, the Senemut Astronomical Ceiling:



A ceiling that Egyptologists, not me or Velikovsky, tell us has the heavens going in the wrong direction.

Something more than 20th century cherry picking of folktales (and fabrication) to support one's hypothesis.

You'll be telling us next all legends are bunk.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Yeah.
And Velikovsky was not an Egyptologist or an astronomer. He was not a scientist of any sort. Like Sitchin, he had no understanding of orbital mechanics, among other things, but he told a cool story. Nonsensical, but cool.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Scott Creighton

Yeah.
And Velikovsky was not an Egyptologist or an astronomer. He was not a scientist of any sort. Like Sitchin, he had no understanding of orbital mechanics, among other things, but he told a cool story.

Pogo was an Egyptologist. It's Pogo who first commented on this "objectionable" ceiling. It's Pogo who couldn't understand why it was so objectionable to him, why Orion and Sirius appeared to be moving in the wrong direction. Don't blame Velikovsky for merely pointing out the blindingly obvious to him.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Pogo was an Egyptologist

Mostly he was an astronomer.

Don't blame Velikovsky for merely pointing out the blindingly obvious to him.

I blame Velikovsky for cherry picking, distorting, and fabricating in order to support his absurd hypothesis.

Did you know there are ice cores which go back more than a million years, btw?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Scott Creighton

Pogo was an Egyptologist

Mostly he was an astronomer.

Don't blame Velikovsky for merely pointing out the blindingly obvious to him.

I blame Velikovsky for cherry picking, distorting, and fabricating in order to support his hypothesis.

You're entitled to your opinion. Personally, all I see you doing here is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. No scientists is right in everything they hypothesize on. Put Velikovsky aside here and just try and look at this astronomical ceiling totally objectively.

Can its "objectionable orientation" be explained by a 180° Earth inversion? If you are truly honest with yourself, you would have to say "Yes, it can." That's not say that that is what you believe occurred, just that this ceiling's peculiar nature CAN be explained by an Earth inversion. Because it CAN. Velikovsky not required.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

The the fact that the Sun (and everything else in the sky, except maybe Polaris) appears to rise and set can indicate that it revolves around the Earth.

This astronomical ceiling has caused much debate and even controversy among scholars for many decades since the arrangement of the stars and planets it depicts only make sense when viewed from the perspective of the Earth having once been upside-down.

My guess ?
They got turned around while inside.
OOPS.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Dalamax


What do you reckon may have flipped the Earth?

Could be this:



A perfect sphere won't flip, but an imperfect one could. That's how it works.

Add in a magnetic field flip, reversing trends in our magnetosphere... maybe.

Water is diamagnetic, could possibly change flow patterns in the ocean... hmm.

Maybe it's possible.

a reply to: gspat

That is not an imperfect sphere, it is an object with two very similar and interchangeable rotational axes. It is nothing like a sphere, imperfect or otherwise. The Earth will not spontaneously flip



The Earth's magnetic field is pretty weak, a refrigerator magnet is magnitudes stronger. It can't move water and it can't overcome the angular momentum of Earth's rotation.

a reply to: Scott Creighton

This is the kind of thread people typically come to this site for. Nice work