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sex offender discrimination

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posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 04:59 AM
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Why are sex offenders more discriminated against then other criminals? As far I know murders don't have to register like they do. It isn't spread all over the news when they get out of prison and come to live in your town either. Not all sex offenders kill their victims. I would rather be raped then murdered. I don't understand the intense public hatred of these ex-cons and certainly don't think it's fair.




posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 05:18 AM
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Are you serious? Just ask the family in Florida. The repeat offender rate for these people is staggering and they are by every sence of the definition predatory. They deserve to be treated exactly the way they are. I for one cannot tell you how pleased I am that California has placed the Meghan's law database online.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 05:32 AM
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* Shakes head...It's the Kids Man....the kids......

Innocent children in the midst of laughter and freedom, taking their steps in the world trusting adults will show them the way, Unknown to torment, unknown to guilt, unknown to corruption, unknown to falsness, unknown to emotional pain, unknown to loss and deep hurt. Unable to fight back, unable to reason, unable to think out things.

Happy ..............oblivious to differences, oblivious to prejudices, oblivious to bias.

Until they get taught by adults, what they see they learn, what they experience they learn. What they feel they learn and what touches them they learn by.

It's the kids, our future. The circle goes on, like a snowball, gathering more and more corruption and perversion.

Eleventh Commandment...thou shall not hurt the children.......

[edit on 19-3-2005 by Mayet]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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You don't understand? I am too dumbfounded by this statement to know what to say to this.

What would you suggest? A public awareness campaign to gain sympathy and understanding for sexual predators? Shall we devise a ribbon for them to show support?

I do not think the majority of murderers are serial criminals, in most cases it's a motivated act in particular circumstances and they are put away longer and often will not be faced daily with the motivation to kill for the sake of killing if they are not serial killers. With most sexual predators, they commit their crimes for the sake of the act itself and is almost never a one shot deal.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by dollmonster
Why are sex offenders more discriminated against then other criminals? As far I know murders don't have to register like they do. It isn't spread all over the news when they get out of prison and come to live in your town either. Not all sex offenders kill their victims. I would rather be raped then murdered. I don't understand the intense public hatred of these ex-cons and certainly don't think it's fair.


Sex offenders deserve all they get. As for "not being fair" i cant believe you actually have some kind of feeling for these type of people.
The public hatred is natural, especially when child sex offenders are involved. As for rapists, would you like to sit and chat with one on your own? I think not, the same as you wouldn't like to be alone with a murderer.

Any criminal is subjected to discrimination, and in my opinion, rightly so. If they don't want to be discriminated against, then don't do the crime. Simple.

We had an accomplice to two child murders living in our village along with public funded security. This wasn't broadcast on the news, but people soon found out who she was. Personally, i wasn't happy about her being so close. She was eventually moved for her own safety.
She should never have been let out of prison in the first place.

Yes, i did discriminate against her and would continue to do so with any other sex offender. I have no feelings as to what they might be going through. did they have any emotions when they killed two children? Do any rapists have any feelings when committing rape? NO.

They chose to commit the crime. they have to live with the stigma for the rest of their lives. Tough is all i can say.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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Ok, I'm going to address this by avoiding all the moral, ethical and emotional reasoning because this is already becoming heated.

I think Mayet did a good job in explaining the reasons behind the typical judgement of Sex Offenders and why it is they are seen as even below the standards of those who Murder. It boils down to the Reasoning and/or Intent behind the Criminal Act. Think of it in the same way you'd view the difference between a brutal fight between two equally matched adult men and a brutal fight between one of those same men and a frail old woman.

Serial Killers are another example where you can't exactly put them on the same level as someone who Kills out of anger, like catching their wife in bed or something like that. An abuser is in a matter of speaking, wired in reverse mentally compared to anyone who values Life, Personal Freedom, Love, Empathy, etc. The actions Abusers (Serial, Sexual, Unusually Crule Offenders) do to others are aimed specifically at not just removing another persons life, but to go beyond even that and forcing upon them a Life so terrible that those being abused desire death simply to avoid the suffering that's being forced upon them.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by mOjOm
Ok, I'm going to address this by avoiding all the moral, ethical and emotional reasoning because this is already becoming heated.


I don't think its becoming heated. Its people voicing their opinions on discrimination towards sex offenders.

I stick by my post above, and what i said. If this makes me a bad person for loathing sex offenders, then so be it.

Its the innocent children abused at the hands of some sick minded pervert who need the help and the understanding. Not the twisted perverts. They can rot for all i care. Its the least they deserve.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by Bikereddie
I don't think its becoming heated. Its people voicing their opinions on discrimination towards sex offenders.


Alright, I guess when I read your post with:

Tough is all i can say.

I saw it as a sign that you might be a bit angry and or upset. My mistake I suppose. Let's continue then by all means.


I stick by my post above, and what i said. If this makes me a bad person for loathing sex offenders, then so be it.


That's cool. I don't think anyone was suggesting that you were a bad person because you felt passionate about the injustice in the world done by the hands of those who gain pleasure from the pain of their victim.

I suppose the only thing even remotely similar to what you're saying would be the suggestion that you should try and not let that feeling of anger and discust effect you so much that it then consumes you. I think it's more along the lines of words and meanings becoming mixed up as they get interpreted by each of us.


Its the innocent children abused at the hands of some sick minded pervert who need the help and the understanding. Not the twisted perverts. They can rot for all i care. Its the least they deserve.


I had a post very similar to that just the other day actually. I'm not saying that we should avoid helping the abused and aid the abuser. But we do need to understand everything possible about such people as Serial Killers, Repeat Sexual Offenders and Wacko's who get off on Torture. I think we'd both agree that these people aren't usually "Fixed", atleast not within a single lifetime, but I am aware of the fact that in most all cases there was something responsible for them being "Broken" as well. It is that which I am most concerned with removing from Society or at least being able to see and avoid it before it is able to "Break" another person and thereby creating a chain reaction of more Abuse and more Abusers.


JAK

posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 07:04 AM
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Taboo

Dollmonster you can see by the replies here and the recent ATSNN posts the anger and hostility focused on those who commit such crimes.

Ironically the place these people, for want of a better word, are most at risk is in prison, where those criminals who feel they are morally above such people eagerly deal out the hate and vengence that builds up when spending time inside.

A good example of the hysteria that can, will and does surround such cases is the infamous Myra Hindley (your very own sweet anti-mother)


Originally posted by Bikereddie
I stick by my post above, and what i said. If this makes me a bad person for loathing sex offenders, then so be it.

Sorry, but statements like the one above just appear to be stated for the reason of stroking the ego of the author. A transparent act of martyrdom while knowing that the vast majority will support you. While this is rightly so, and should be supported I really don't believe such actions worthy of Tony Blair himself, contribute anything to such a discussion.


I was stunned to see such an torrent of hate pouring out in the ATSNN reports recently. Those which we call 'Red top' newspapers in the UK would be proud.

Before those who are unable to grasp my point without explanation start replying with the standard blanket ignorance, let me say I have a child. A daughter who means more to me that I ever thought anything ever could and, God forbid I should ever be in such a position as the parents of those children who have so recently been the subject of such news, I have no doubt whatsoever my instinct shouold be one of extreme violence. A violence that those of you without children cannot comprehend, no matter how moral and decent you might think you are.

Until you have children yourself you cannot truly realise the bond between a parent and child, so do not for an instant believe that you can.

It is with the understanding of my own failings that I viewed the relevant threads though and wondered if the majority of

Man, I would *Insert painful torture here* the ***ker

And wondered about at best the insight, at worst the motives of those who professed such feelings. Such comments are hardly conducive to an adult debate about what many people (rightly) see as the worst crime possible.

Am I a soft lefty liberal? Am I suggesting these people get a slap on the wrist then released back into society? Unfortunately for those blinkered among you who might wish an easy target, no dream on. I am no easy anti-mother.

Flame away lovers.


Jack

[edit on 19/3/05 by JAK]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 07:25 AM
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I have no reason to flame your comments. Very valid and thought provoking.

My views were straight to the point and i hoped expressed my feelings.
I was writing from the heart, because I'm sure you will have noticed by reading between the lines so to speak, that i find the subject of child abuse deplorable.

I could have wrote with more intense feelings about how to deal with sex offenders and the like, but i find that i cannot write anything in the way of compassion for those types of people. Thats just my way and thoughts.

I have two children, who are now 19 and 17. I still am very protective over my daughter and would have no hesitation to seek revenge if anything happened to her. I too understand the bond you mentioned, so we do share the same sentiments to some degree.

[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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As much as I would like to agree with everyone who attacks and stalks sexual predators and child molesters, I have to support Dollmonster's idea that "It's not fair."

Unfortunately, our justice system perscribes a certain number of years for these people to serve, and after that point, they are free and considered "rehabilitated." That's our system voted in by our citizens and supported by our constitution here in the US. If sexual criminals are considered un-fixable somehow - if they cannot be rehabilitated, then WHY DO WE LET THEM OUT OF PRISON AT ALL?

Once these people are released, they deserve the same privacy and rights as other citizens. If anything, the constant badgering and stalking by people and publically outing them as criminals could lead them to a more stressful life and re-commit crimes. Self-fulfilling prophecy, anyone? Yes, there are people like this guy who snatched and killed the 9 yr old Florida girl, but is anyone missing the point that this is more rare than we think, and most molestations and child sex abusers come from within one's own family? Also, a sexual predator could be the Florida man, or it could be a 19 yr old man who was dating a 16 year old girl that went to his same school whose parent didn't approve and called the cops. Does he deserve the label and harassment?

There is such a disturbing trend lately of self riteousness, chronic offense to everything, and a feeling that everything in the world should be fair and safe and happy. That just isn't life. Ban it! Outlaw it! Not in MY backyard!

One more thing that has to be mentioned - and I will say now that the Florida case is an EXCEPTION to this reality that doesn't happen very often.... In many cases where kids are abused or taken by BY STRANGERS (Not Uncle Jimmy or the babysitter), the parent is not attending to their child. Here's a recent example from the Northern VA area: Family is at Toys R Us and a 6 year old tells her family as they are leaving that a man touched her in the bathroom. The 6 year old had aparently been wandering around alone, decided to go to the bathroom, and the parents didn't even know she went. Any reason why mom or dad wasn't keeping tabs on where their child was in a warehouse-type store? BOTH parents were there. Guess who they want to sue - Toys R Us!

Life ISN'T fair, the world ISN't safe. Children need protecting, and if we are afraid of child molesters on the street, we should do something about the system that lets them out of prison. Yep, it sucks that this happens, but it does, and it will, and we can keep on watching our 6 year olds in Toys R Us and teaching them about safety and just plain loving them.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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in effect it makes X-sex offenders be on probation for life...= unamerican

Double jepardy laws should protect these offenders......what if this person was 18 years old when they comittied there crimes......its not a garranttee that they will offend again.

Has this law Prevented Any crime...or Protected anyone? and what of the other list...terrorist watch list....no-fly list.....the next list will probibly be a murderer list.....shop lifter list....."gasp"...litterer list.....Democrat lists....peace protester lists......anti-christain lists.....poor lists

How many lists did nazi germany have...or mother russa....i bet china has some lists too.

Im all for protecting kids, but thats the parents job.

but im more for my personal rights


JAK

posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 09:06 AM
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The line between the protection of the community and of the individuals rights is one that becomes blurred in this situation.

Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? There is no doubt that society needs to be protected, but once such action is taken against a person, no matter what the crime, is it not the start of a slippery slope?

It might be considered right and proper that these individuals relinquish all rights when they commit such an act, but should the authorities have to ability to override their personal freedoms/rights would you trust them not to abuse it?

I am glad I do not have to make such a decision, I have no idea where I might come down.

Jack



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 09:11 AM
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It has been repeatedly proven that sex offenders are never "cured". The best rehabilitation is that they learn the ability to not act on their illicit feelings.....but they will still have those urges for the rest of their lives.
It is for that reason that they are required to register....for the safety of those around them! If you had a child, wouldn't you want to know if the man next store had a history of molesting children?!?!?


JAK

posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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But what is the best way to ensure the safety of the public?

This register, if made public, would go how far to quell the undoubtedly high emotions of those living in the vicinity. In answer I would take this time to remind of the recent outbreak of such mentalitly where a paediatrician was given police protection because members of the general public surrounded his house screaming for him to be hung.

It is, in my opinion, such crass behaviour that is exhibited when this crime reaches public view which hinders the very efforts to combat it

We have recently seen posts demonstrating a lynch-mob mentality here on ATS, our ATS. An ATS I believe most members would like think is a bastion of thought in the current climate of coffee time discussion or flag waving shortsightedness. Yet the minute this subject raises it's ugly head the screams for blood attempt drown out everything else.

Yea I would ***kin kill him too. Hanging's too good blah, blah.
Think about the membership here. Do you, like me when considering it, believe that this site's membership exhibits a willingness to listen, to learn of alternative viewpoints above that of the general public? If so and yet still the majority of posts are of the calibre stated what hope is there that the problem can be addressed publicly in any manner where the majority is willing to accept any outcome other than state killing or permanent incarceration?

Or does this thread evolve/mutate into another questioning capital punishment?

That is a question. I am asking, I don't know.

Jack



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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[edit on 3/19/2005 by dollmonster]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Thank you RedBallon for coming to my defense. You are the only one who understood the point I was trying to make.

The rest of you were quick to lash out at what you perceived as my ignorance. How perfectly this illustrates the self righteous condemnation so prevalent in today's culture. But you know nothing about me or the life that shaped me.

For your information I know more about pedophiles and their twisted need to prey on innocent children then you can imagine. In 1989, my beloved 13 year old niece was raped and murdered by the youth minister of her church. Bludgeoned to death after being raped, she was thrown naked into a ditch on the outskirts of town. She wasn't found for five days. Her death nearly gave me a nervous breakdown. I cried myself to sleep every night for six months. Closure didn't come to me for five more years . This was the direct result of writing her poem, "Jennifer Anne Teenage Queen." Looking back now, it isn't a very good poem, but it served to begin the healing.

Her murderer is spending life without parole in Folsom State prison. My family did not opt for the death penalty. We don't believe in an "eye for an eye" and realize lusting for revenge can never fill the void of despair. But after losing someone to murder, a day will come when you reach a fork in the road. You can chose the all consuming path of bitter hatred and spend the rest of your life aching for what you've lost, or you can pick the road to forgiveness and start to heal. Like it or not, l you death penalty supporters, forgiveness is the chance to redeem your life.
Maybe now you understand why I believe in redemption for even the blackest of souls


JAK

posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by dollmonster
Thank you Red Ballon for coming to my defense. You are the only one who understood my point.

The rest of you, were quick to lash out at what you perceived as my ignorance. How perfectly this illustrates the self righteous condemnation so prevalent in today's culture.


Sorry? Did you not read my posts, or just not understand?

Jack



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by dollmonster
Thank you RedBallon for coming to my defense. You are the only one who understood the point I was trying to make.

The rest of you were quick to lash out at what you perceived as my ignorance. How perfectly this illustrates the self righteous condemnation so prevalent in today's culture. But you know nothing about me or the life that shaped me.

For your information I know more about pedophiles and their twisted need to prey on innocent children then you can imagine. In 1989, my beloved 13 year old niece was raped and murdered by the youth minister of her church. Bludgeoned to death after being raped, she was thrown naked into a ditch on the outskirts of town. She wasn't found for five days. Her death nearly gave me a nervous breakdown. I cried myself to sleep every night for six months. Closure didn't come to me for five more years . This was the direct result of writing her poem, "Jennifer Anne Teenage Queen." Looking back now, it isn't a very good poem, but it served to begin the healing.

Her murderer is spending life without parole in Folsom State prison. My family did not opt for the death penalty. We don't believe in an "eye for an eye" and realize lusting for revenge can never fill the void of despair. But after losing someone to murder, a day will come when you reach a fork in the road. You can chose the all consuming path of bitter hatred and spend the rest of your life aching for what you've lost, or you can pick the road to forgiveness and start to heal. Like it or not, l you death penalty supporters, forgiveness is the chance to redeem your life.
Maybe now you understand why I believe in redemption for even the blackest of souls


I was going to edit your post, but decided to leave it intact.
Thank you for sharing the above with us. My heart really does go out to you.

I think after what you went through shows that you are a better person than me for showing forgiveness.
I doubt i could be like that, but i have never been in that situation, and hope i never am.

I wasn't flaming you directly, but was trying to put my feelings about the subject in a way that was right for me.
Don't take offence at them. They wasn't directed at anyone person.

Thanks again for sharing your experience.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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Probably because it is a crime that cannot ever be justified whereas murder can be and is defined by various degrees. The rate of repeat offenses for sex offenders is staggering and without a "cure" or proven treatment there is trade-off that society has chosen to make - rather than permanent incarceration there is the registry. I see the sex offender registry is an information tool that helps parents protect their children - because we only think we know who are neighbors are.

I do not think the emotions expressed by many members here are not the result of "self righteous indignation" but more of concern for protecting children who cannot protect themselves. At least that is my mindset when I respond to these threads. Hopefully someday these people can be treated for this - but until that time, I support the registry as an important tool to help me protect my girls.

B.





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