Originally posted by WestPoint23
Its not our prized jewel its not our most advanced tech,

Since when is STOVL tech not advanced?
Since when is stealth tech not advanced?
Since when is super cruise not advanced?
The list goes on...

and since I don't foresee us fighting our allies in the near future whets the harm with giving you the JSF, if any it helps us out, not to mention you guys are actually paying for the F-35's development. Giving you the F-35 does not pose a military problem nor a problem of pride or status.

Yeah so why arent you even offering us the F-22 if we wont be fighting you and could help the production costs and help with the development of the F-22?

Enjoy your F-35's.
West Point, Out

We will...if you get the weight problem sorted..
Oh and you didnt say who you where talking to so "out" isnt really correct..

The F-35's weight issue, well...isn't an issue, it was fixed months ago.

and I dont think the F-35 can supercruise, being that it has one engine.

Originally posted by Murcielago
The F-35's weight issue, well...isn't an issue, it was fixed months ago.

and I dont think the F-35 can supercruise, being that it has one engine.

I feel like an idiot....

Since when is STOVL tech not advanced?

The Harrier has it and you guys already have the Harrier so its not a major issue.

Since when is stealth tech not advanced?

Stealth is advanced but the stealth of the F-35 is not our most advanced stealth tech so we have no problem giving it to our allies. But if you were to as about the stealth of the B-2 or Raptor then we would have a problem.

Since when is super cruise not advanced?

Not a feature of the F-35.

and since I don't foresee us fighting our allies in the near future whets the harm with giving you the JSF, if any it helps us out, not to mention you guys are actually paying for the F-35's development. Giving you the F-35 does not pose a military problem nor a problem of pride or status.

Yeah so why arent you even offering us the F-22 if we wont be fighting you and could help the production costs and help with the development of the F-22?

Devil please read my posts more carefully, for the F-35 I said it does not pose a problem of Pride or Status. Giving you the F/A-22 means that we no longer have the worlds best fighter to ourselves, and that is not acceptable.





West Point, Out.

[edit on 3-4-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The Harrier has it and you guys already have the Harrier so its not a major issue.

Can the harrier hold the same ammount of armorments as the F-35?
No, the F-35 is much more advanced than the harrier...

Stealth is advanced but the stealth of the F-35 is not our most advanced stealth tech so we have no problem giving it to our allies. But if you were to as about the stealth of the B-2 or Raptor then we would have a problem.

Why though?

Not a feature of the F-35.

SEE you getting me thinking of the F-22!!

Devil please read my posts more carefully, for the F-35 I said it does not pose a problem of Pride or Status. Giving you the F/A-22 means that we no longer have the worlds best fighter to ourselves, and that is not acceptable.

Why though?
Because you feel you need to "lead" us?
When no practically NO countries follow?

Can the harrier hold the same ammount of armorments as the F-35?
No, the F-35 is much more advanced than the harrier...

It doesn't matter its not our most advanced jet, the F-35 could be better than all the other jets in the world but if its not our most advanced one then you can have it.

Why though?

Because Generals don't like giving away their very best systems, even if it is to allies.

Why though?
Because you feel you need to "lead" us?
When no practically NO countries follow?

Nope because we want to keep our military supremacy and because it looks good having the best fighter in the world. Its the mentality of the Pentagon I cant do anything about it nether can you . Its just the way it is.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
It doesn't matter its not our most advanced jet, the F-35 could be better than all the other jets in the world but if its not our most advanced one then you can have it.

Why so?

Because Generals don't like giving away their very best systems, even if it is to allies.

So wait , you dont even trust the people that die with you?
Isnt that breaking a service value, "treat others with dignity and respect while expecting others to do the same."
"A loyal Soldier is one who supports the leadership and stands up for fellow Soldiers"

Nope because we want to keep our military supremacy and because it looks good having the best fighter in the world. Its the mentality of the Pentagon I cant do anything about it nether can you . Its just the way it is.

Supremacy over who, the UK?
WTF???
It also looks better if your willing to share and work with others...

Why so?

I don't know I cant read the mind of the people that make that decision.

So wait , you dont even trust the people that die with you?
Isnt that breaking a service value, "treat others with dignity and respect while expecting others to do the same."
"A loyal Soldier is one who supports the leadership and stands up for fellow Soldiers"

Oh come-on I already told you its not about trust or respect. Its not that we don't respect you its just that we are not comfortable with giving other countries as close as they may be to us our best systems. And what does the solder quote have to do with export restriction?

Supremacy over who, the UK?
WTF???
It also looks better if your willing to share and work with others...

The Pentagon just wants to be on top even on top of our allies when it come to military strength. We share and work with you we just don't share the very best stuff but you'll get the rest.




West Point, Out

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I don't know I cant read the mind of the people that make that decision.

There must be logic behind thier actions otherwise they dont act in the best intrests if the service...

Oh come-on I already told you its not about trust or respect. Its not that we don't respect you its just that we are not comfortable with giving other countries as close as they may be to us our best systems. And what does the solder quote have to do with export restriction?

Be loyal to your fellow solider, not putting him at a disadvantage.
Why though?
Its only servres to help you if your ally can take a more dominent role during conflicts.

The Pentagon just wants to be on top even on top of our allies when it come to military strength. We share and work with you we just don't share the very best stuff but you'll get the rest.

So the american military would intentionally leave an ally at a disadvantage and leave them open to attack?







Edit to fix quotes

[edit on 4-3-2005 by ProudAmerican]

There must be logic behind thier actions otherwise they dont act in the best intrests if the service...

I already told you their logic behind it. You keep asking “why” there is only so many why’s I can explain.

Be loyal to your fellow solider, not putting him at a disadvantage.
Why though?
Its only servres to help you if your ally can take a more dominent role during conflicts.

Buddy I am loyal I have nothing to do with the export restrictions. Ahhhhh... again with the why! And its ok we will spare Britain the burden of fighting high tech A2A fighters from our enemies.

So the american military would intentionally leave an ally at a disadvantage and leave them open to attack?

How is not getting the Raptor or other really high tech systems leaving you open to an attack?, come-one I don't think anyone is going to attack Britain anytime soon.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I already told you their logic behind it. You keep asking “why” there is only so many why’s I can explain.

You told me the basic logic not the logic I require..

Buddy I am loyal I have nothing to do with the export restrictions. Ahhhhh... again with the why! And its ok we will spare Britain the burden of fighting high tech A2A fighters from our enemies.

No you make us fight in outdated tech....the tornado and the harrier to name 2.....

How is not getting the Raptor or other really high tech systems leaving you open to an attack?, come-one I don't think anyone is going to attack Britain anytime soon.

Not haveing the best leaves us with an angle of weakness....
Not now...but mabye sometime soon....with china looming I wouldnt want to take the chance....

Devil,

At what point are you going to realise that WP is a moron?

He is steadfastly unable to grasp the simplest of concepts such as contract law, never mind more advanced skills, such as the use of a spellchecker.

He rambles on about the US not "sharing" technology. What he fails to realise is that the US is not being told it must share its toys with the other kids. What is being demanded is that US businesses honour the contracts they signed AND were paid for.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Devil,

At what point are you going to realise that WP is a moron?

Far from it my friend....he has the knowledge....we just dont agree...

He is steadfastly unable to grasp the simplest of concepts such as contract law, never mind more advanced skills, such as the use of a spellchecker.

He rambles on about the US not "sharing" technology. What he fails to realise is that the US is not being told it must share its toys with the other kids. What is being demanded is that US businesses honour the contracts they signed AND were paid for.

He is acting like a diplomat....trying to answering questions about the pentagon with logic but since the pentagon has no logic its difficult....

Cut the crap why should allied service personal give there lives for an ally who stabs them in back? I dont have anything against americans but there are some real wankers in congress and the Pentagon. I wonder if the same people that refuse to give the lastest tec to there allies would be happy if the likes of Aust brought there military hardware elsewhere?






[edit on 4-4-2005 by xpert11]

[edit on 4-4-2005 by xpert11]

[edit on 4-4-2005 by xpert11]

Devil,

I think you will find he is not talking from a knowledge standpoint as much as his own point of view. If you take the time to visit the MOD and DOD websites about this subject you will find that they do not support any of his contentions.

In fact they dispute them quite strongly. As do the sites dealing with the individual projects mentioned.

I am happy to debate a topic with someone who although having a differing viewpoint, actually has information to back them up. WP on the other hand is simply a mis-informed troller trying to get a rise out of you.

If you want to play his game, then far be it from me to stop you. It is only your time you are wasting.

Take care

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
I think you will find he is not talking from a knowledge standpoint as much as his own point of view. If you take the time to visit the MOD and DOD websites about this subject you will find that they do not support any of his contentions.

Nethier will the MOD or DOD support my contentions....I'm asking him since he is an abassador from his country...

In fact they dispute them quite strongly. As do the sites dealing with the individual projects mentioned.

And they dont dispute mine?

I am happy to debate a topic with someone who although having a differing viewpoint, actually has information to back them up. WP on the other hand is simply a mis-informed troller trying to get a rise out of you.

......Ok no need for that...totally uncalled for...
He has provided me with many links to information I did not know about during my arguements with him and frankly he plays the game good....IMHO..

If you want to play his game, then far be it from me to stop you. It is only your time you are wasting.

I play my game.....and his....before you judge me and him try and actually learn something about him...ok?

Devil,

“He is an ambassador for his country”

Two things on this, firstly, how right you are. Secondly, just because someone comes from the US does not make them knowledgeable about it, as WP has so perfectly proved.

“before you judge me and him try and actually learn something about him”

I am one of those people who, rightly or wrongly, judge those I meet online by what they say.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
“He is an ambassador for his country”

Two things on this, firstly, how right you are. Secondly, just because someone comes from the US does not make them knowledgeable about it, as WP has so perfectly proved.

Actually thats rather wrong...
I come from scotland and know a good portion of knowledge of it....westy knows much of the american laws...and the military systems derived and invented in the US....therfore makeing him knowledgeable about the US.
Westy has more than once shown he knows about tech...

I am one of those people who, rightly or wrongly, judge those I meet online by what they say.

Then you will create a rather biased and one sided view of him....not finding out what he is acutally like...
What do you think of me?

Devil,

I am from Scotland too but would never think of referring to myself as an ambassador for it.

As to my garnering opinions on people based on what they post, I would say that if one does not want to be thought of as stupid and intolerant then one should not post stupid and intolerant posts.

As to what I think of you, do you actually care? Do you post so people will like you?

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
I am from Scotland too but would never think of referring to myself as an ambassador for it.

Too bad....you want citezenship well then accept it.

As to my garnering opinions on people based on what they post, I would say that if one does not want to be thought of as stupid and intolerant then one should not post stupid and intolerant posts.

That is true...but appearances are not always correct....

As to what I think of you, do you actually care? Do you post so people will like you?

I actually wonder what people think of me...
If I posted so people would like me then I would agree wth people and not disagree aye?