Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?

Here's a lit review of research on Covid-19 pre-existing immunities put out today to throw another crack in everything we've been hearing.

Turns out despite being a 'novel' corona virus, a larger percentage of people in many of the harder hit areas actually had pre-existing t-cell immunity to the novel corona virus, despite not actually contracting it or being exposed to it.

This raises questions on the herd immunity threshold and it actually being much lower than the WHO has been pushing everyone to believe.

www.bmj.com...

It seemed a truth universally acknowledged that the human population had no pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2, but is that actually the case? Peter Doshi explores the emerging research on immunological responses

Even in local areas that have experienced some of the greatest rises in excess deaths during the covid-19 pandemic, serological surveys since the peak indicate that at most only around a fifth of people have antibodies to SARS-CoV-2: 23% in New York, 18% in London, 11% in Madrid.123 Among the general population the numbers are substantially lower, with many national surveys reporting in single digits.

a stream of studies that have documented SARS-CoV-2 reactive T cells in people without exposure to the virus are raising questions about just how new the pandemic virus really is, with many implications.

In a study of donor blood specimens obtained in the US between 2015 and 2018, 50% displayed various forms of T cell reactivity to SARS-CoV-2.511 A similar study that used specimens from the Netherlands reported T cell reactivity in two of 10 people who had not been exposed to the virus.
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I just wanted to bring a bit of attention to those last three paragraphs. This is where my conspiracy speculation starts. I believe T-cell immunity has been intentionally overlooked and down played in favour of an antibody solution and i believe the sole reason is control and profit. As mentioned, antibodies begin to wane, meaning any antibody based vaccine will need regular booster shots to remain effective.

They're cheap and easy to test for, making large population screening efforts feasible. They provide an excuse to control movement and work and of course, provide perpetual profit for that lucky manufacturer that patents it first.

All at the expense of pretty much everyone on the planet.

I do. It's a proven scientific fact tobacco smokers are immune.

a reply to: dug88

There are some suggestions that there was an outbreak of a different coronavirus in Germany last year, and that this is why there are some regions of Germany that have a very low level of Covid-19, because some of them had an immunity to it. But this hasn't been peer reviewed yet.

originally posted by: CharlesT
I do. It's a proven scientific fact tobacco smokers are immune.

Wouldn't it be more likely that people naturally socially distance from smokers, and so they don't catch it as much as they're unpopular?

a reply to: AaarghZombies

This could be accurate if the person is a non stop chain smoker. What about when they aren’t smoking?

a reply to: KKLOCO

no, nicotine consumption down regulates the gene expressions of ACE2 receptors in the lungs. consuming nicotine changes your gene expression causing lower number of site for the Wu-flu to attach to. theoretically if you come from a long line of smokers your the downregulation could be heritable.

it has nothing to do with tar or smoke... its the nicotine.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Maybe so. I do have a hard time finding dates these days.

WE have a three way immune system. We have innate immunity, which includes the T-cell stuff, and we have the antigen based immunity. I do not remember what the third kind is, it has something to do with immune moderation I think.

There are some chemistries put in our foods and some foods themselves that disrupt the innate system. Also some common medicines disrupt the innate system by altering multiple pathways. Almost half the people in this country probably have their innate system that will find the virus and destroy it before they get very sick at all if any. This virus shares similarities in antigen chemistry with some adenoviruses and the common cold coronavirus and many people will fight this using the antigens they have for those, not as good as fighting the adeno and corina cold viruses, but it will adequately do the job. The thing that is troublesome is that people take medicines that can cause the covid to be worse. If there is a true need for the pills, I have no problem, but lot of the meds are given to decrease the risk factor of blood pressure but in this particular covid time, half the people would have less risk from the higher blood pressure than from Covid harm. They are giving some friends of mine blood pressure meds and their BP has never gone over 130/85 when they are tested at the doctors. They lowered the threshold, they also were put on Statins even though their cholesterol was just over the high point. Cholesterol varries day to day, it goes up if you are walking or mowing the grass a long time temporarily.

a reply to: dug88

I think you're right about this. The Swiss have been talking about it several months now.

Yes, there is a conspiracy to terrorize the public and to crush the economy. Mission Accomplished.

Bill Gates is in on the conspiracy, and so is Dr. Fauci.

Herd immunity has fairly well arrived.

clinicalnews.org...

Last sentence of this article is promising..... clinicalnews.org...

Another article I read by some professional immunologists stated that in a year this virus will be no worse than the flu.

This is very interesting for sure. The odds are very good that many of us has had this virus before, we just assumed it was the flu, or something else.

I'm really done with the talk going around involving making masks government mandated. I don't want to spend the rest of my life wearing one every single day, but it really sounds like that might be pushed as a regular tool to fight disease.

a reply to: KKLOCO

They are still more likely to smoke in social situation or to hang around with other smokers. So they are more socially distanced than the average person.

a reply to: Subrosabelow

I don't think many of us have had it, but we may have had something similar enough to it that our immune systems could cope with it as if they had seen it before. The immunity provided may not have been perfect but it was enough to keep us from developing severe illness or even any illness at all in some cases.

The thing is that there are coronoviruses that circulate in the human population seasonally, and depending on how much and how often they mutate, there is a chance one or more of those strains was similar enough to provide at least partial immunity to this should you have gotten it. Your body's immune system has a long memory.

originally posted by: CharlesT
I do. It's a proven scientific fact tobacco smokers are immune.

Are you being funny? I knew someone who had it and smoked, they're dead.

The people standing back six feet, wearing masks all the time, washing their hands, hand sanitizing, wiping tables and carts off with alcohol, severing social ties. People staying out of public will survive this. Others become a ? Nature always wins, unless you alter your behavior and work with it. This the new normal. This has nothing to do with politics, it’s about the old and sick not being trimmed off the population. With herd animals nature controls population all the time. We are just another herd.

a reply to: frugal

Except it's not a death sentence for almost everyone, and those measures you talk about only provide some protection, not perfect protection.

This is not the "new normal" unless our authorities try to force it to be.

had my yearly physical blood work a couple of weeks ago. Requested COVID check. got results a few days ago no COVID check. Called and asked why they said wasn't required or requested. I have the paperwork in front of me requesting it. Too bad.

originally posted by: frugal
The people standing back six feet, wearing masks all the time, washing their hands, hand sanitizing, wiping tables and carts off with alcohol, severing social ties. People staying out of public will survive this. Others become a ? Nature always wins, unless you alter your behavior and work with it. This the new normal. This has nothing to do with politics, it’s about the old and sick not being trimmed off the population. With herd animals nature controls population all the time. We are just another herd.

the meek will inherit the earth.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I read that on the internet.

Antibodies are just one part of the immune system. While still complex in all their combinations, they are the simplest components in an immune response.

Having antibodies floating around that can latch onto past identified antigens helps with a quick immune response should we encounter that antigen again. Some antibody combinations can be detrimental to our bodies as these antibodies latch onto normal and functional parts of our bodies. An antibody that latches onto the spike protein of an ACE2 receptor is one example of this.

While such an antibody will help attack SARS-CoV-2, it will also attack ACE2 regulation in our bodies. During a bad infection, our bodies will attack and destroy a lot of things to get on top of the infection. Once the war is over it is better for the body to not have some antibodies around. Our bodies can make more if needed, otherwise they do more harm than good to keep them on full time patrol.

Our bodies do try and find antibody combinations that will not attack other body functions. SARS-Cov-2 is a tricky one as it is covered in spikes do mimic our bodies normal function. The furon cleavage site is also a tricky one as it can alter the orientation of the antibody attachment and attack the T cell when it comes along to clean it up.

Our Macrophages are what we need to support to get on top of a bad infection. They are smart buggers, able to get into a cell and clean out a viral infection. Killer T cells are also an option, do a lot of damage and just smash everything up.

Our immune system is adaptable and tuned over millions and billions of years of genetic life on this planet. There are a lot of local variations around this planet with their micro organism biomes. A case of Deli Belly is pretty common for many international travellers to India.