The U.F.O. skeptics are in denial

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I saw a lot of "smoke" in the UFO field, and like a lot of people, I thought "where there's smoke, there must be fire". Meaning, all these people are seeing UFOs they can't explain, some of them must be alien, right? That's what the authors of the UFO books were saying, anyway.

So I decided to go looking for the fire. I didn't find a fire. I found a lot of ordinary people having ordinary misperceptions, at one level, but at another level I found a lot of UFO promoters and charlatans taking those cases and using them to power "smoke generators" and that's where a lot of the smoke was coming from.

I didn't have an "I want to believe" poster on my wall, but I could have. I did sort of want to believe aliens were visiting, and I still think it would be cool if that was true. When I was young, my friends and I used to go out to remote places, and look for UFOs, or places we thought had nice places for them to land. Though we knew it was a long shot, we did have a lot of fun observing the sky in remote places where you can still see the Milky Way without all the light pollution. I don't do that anymore though, haven't for a long time.

a reply to: Arbitrageur
Brilliant answer.

I can only agree.
But I think it's important to understand that "stick in the mud's" like ourselves aren't motivated by fear or ignorance.

"Inside every cynical person there is a disappointed idealist"

a reply to: Arbitrageur

You didn't respond to anything? Are you even reading my posts?

I can go tit for tat with you about those cases and present a ton of other cases with great witnesses. I already said misidintefications happen. What is the point of your posts?

I can refute half of the stuff you're saying but you're trying to dodge the question I asked and your illogical posts. First, there are many cases with reliable eyewitnesses.

The Pascagoula abduction of Calvin Parker and Charles Hickson is one of the best known abduction cases in the history of Ufology. One of the men, Calvin Parker, recently wrote a book after 45 years of mostly staying silent. The guy could of made a killing traveling with Hickson on the U.F.O. circuit but didn't want to say anything at first and retreated from the spotlight. He finally chose to tell his story 45 years later and it's as profound today as it was back then. Here's a video where Parker gives some detail as to what happened.



These guys were examined, polygraphed and they tried to trick them by recording their conversations unbeknownst to them.

Parker says some very interesting things. He says that the 3 creatures came out of the ship and these 3 creatures took them into the ship and into an examination room. He said these 3 creatures looked more mechanical. This is important because he notices mechanical movement vs. what he saw later.

He then says something came out of the ceiling and examined his head. After it examined his head, it went back up into the ceiling and another creature came into the examination room.

This is important, because while the others looked mechanical, this one looked biological. It looked like something he recognized because he said it was female. The female being talked to him telepathically and told him everything would be okay.

Others in town saw weird things around that same time.

Capt. Ryder said there were three sightings of an unexplained flash of light reported the night it happened, but he did not include those in the official police report.

Ryder said he later learned there had been sightings of unexplained lights all along the Coast in the nights before Hickson and Parker.

The Sun Herald found a retired professional from a local industry, who described in detail something she still can’t explain under the condition that she remain anonymous.

It was before Christmas 1973, about two months after Hickson and Parker.

She was standing outside her car at a gas station near Market Street and Ingalls Avenue in Pascagoula, when she and others saw a flaming object fly along the river.

“I was putting gas in my car and there were two or three others out of their cars. It was about 8 p.m., good and dark.

“For some reason, I was facing north and what I saw was on my left. We all looked … I don’t always remember things, but boy, I remember this.

“It started out up-river, at about the (U.S. 90) bridge and it came down to the beach, always over the river.”

She said it was just above the tree line and disappeared when it reached the beach. It lasted 3-4 seconds. But in that time, the object traveled more than a mile.

It flew over the spot where Hickson and Parker said they were abducted.

The image is so vivid that 45 years later, she can draw it — the shape of a hat with a stubby brim. It had flames all over it moving clockwise, not like a reentry trail. The object moved parallel to the river.

“We just looked at each other, put our eyes down and kept doing what we were doing,” she said. “We were all embarrassed for some reason.

“And to this day, I think why would we be embarrassed?” she said. “It was like somebody walked up and flashed you, and you’re like, ‘No, we didn’t see that.’”

www.sunherald.com...

Here's a video of Hynek talking about the case and an interview with Hickson from a Reporter.



Hynek says something very important. He says in order to get answers you have to gauge the credibility of the witnesses. This is what's lacking in this area especially from pseudoskeptics, They want to treat all eyewitness accounts as equally invalid because humans can have faulty memories. This is exactly why we weigh the credibility of the witness and Lawyers will not put a witness on the stand if he/she isn't credible.

Very strong case. What about Malmstrom Air Force Base?

On March 24, 1967, men see an unidentified object hovering over Montana’s Malmstrom Air Force Base, home to nuclear weapons, which are all disabled simultaneously.



Here's another video on Malmstrom.

The USAF confirms the UFO incident at Malmstrom AFB in March 1967 through Project Bluebook. I interview witness that was there at the time and heard radio transmission of the event.



Zimbabwe mass sighting

On September 16th, 1994 at the Ariel School in rural Zimbabwe, over sixty school children described seeing a disc-shaped craft land behind the school during morning break time.

Children reported seeing strange beings, and some received wordless communication about the harm we are causing to our planet.There were multiple sightings of unusual aerial phenomena by hundreds of Zimbabweans during this same time period.

At least seven media crews visited the school. Though initially publicized worldwide, the event quickly disappeared from the public eye - but not from the hearts and minds of those who witnessed it.

Harvard psychiatrist Dr. John Mack traveled to Zimbabwe to interview the children in depth. After exhaustive investigation, he concluded that the children were telling the truth.

www.arielphenomenon.com...

I can play this game too and list pages and pages of credible cases.

You're only doing this because you made such an illogical statement that you can't support. You didn't try to respond to my previous post because you can't.

I have to ask what is the point you're trying to make? Are you saying because some Pilots might be mistaken or that some Pilots don't get every detail right then all Pilots are bad observers?

If that's your point it's illogical in every way and that's why you keep avoiding my question. Hynek showed the more technical knowledge you have the better you are at identifying U.F.O.'s.

Why should I trust your biased and illogical opinions over the Pilots. You can't even answer a basic question that you have been asked 4 or 5 times now so I will ask it again.

Which one of these statements accurately describes all observers or eyewitnesses?

A. The independent objective truth is that people are not very reliable observers, and no, not even pilots.

or

B. The objective truth is some people aren't reliable observers while some people are very reliable observers.

It's obvious why you don't want to answer the question.

If you answer A, you realize how illogical it sounds but you want to support your pseudoskeptic brother Arbitrageur.

If you answer B, then you have to admit that some U.F.O. accounts from Pilots are reliable.

You're the one that said:

The independent objective truth is that people are not very reliable observers, and no, not even pilots.

This isn't objective truth. There's some people who are very reliable eyewitnesses.

ARE ANY PILOTS RELIABLE OBSERVERS OR ARE THEY ALL IDIOTS AND YOU"RE THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY REALLY SAW?

I have to ask your background. You must have Aviation experience. Were you a Pilot because you're making asinine areguments and basically labeling all Pilots idiots that don't know anything about their surroundings.

Hynek showed that Pilots make very good eyewitnesses when it comes to identifying U.F.O.'s. He showed the more technical training you have the better you are at identifying U.F.O.'s. Pilots have some of the best technical training in the world.



Will you finally answer the question......... Of course you won't!

Let's talk about the O'Hare Airport incident. Listen to the eyewitness accounts.

All the witnesses said the object was dark gray and well defined in the overcast skies. They said the craft, estimated by different accounts to be 6 feet to 24 feet in diameter, did not display any lights.

Some said it looked like a rotating Frisbee, while others said it did not appear to be spinning. All agreed the object made no noise and it was at a fixed position in the sky, just below the 1,900-foot cloud deck, until shooting off into the clouds.

Here's more:

Witnesses shaken by sighting

"I tend to be scientific by nature, and I don't understand why aliens would hover over a busy airport," said a United mechanic who was in the cockpit of a Boeing 777 that he was taxiing to a maintenance hangar when he observed the metallic-looking object above Gate C17.

"But I know that what I saw and what a lot of other people saw stood out very clearly, and it definitely was not an [Earth] aircraft," the mechanic said.

One United employee appeared emotionally shaken by the sighting and "experienced some religious issues" over it, one co-worker said.

A United manager said he ran outside his office in Concourse B after hearing the report about the sighting on an internal airline radio frequency.

"I stood outside in the gate area not knowing what to think, just trying to figure out what it was," he said. "I knew no one would make a false call like that. But if somebody was bouncing a weather balloon or something else over O'Hare, we had to stop it because it was in very close proximity to our flight operations."

One more:

"It was like somebody punched a hole in the sky," said one United employee.

Witnesses said they had a hard time visually tracking the object as it streaked through the dense clouds.

It left behind an open hole of clear air in the cloud layer, the witnesses said, adding that the hole disappeared within a few minutes.

www.chicagotribune.com... ge=1&coll=chi-newsnationworldiraq-hed" target="_blank" class="postlink">UFO

Almost sounds extradimensional don't it!

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: neoholographic

Dr. Kaku was right. The burden of proof has shifted from those who say U.F.O.'s exist to those who say they don't.

Can you source that , please ?
Outside of one of those "alien" related TV shows ?

Michio Kaku - UFO's - The Evidence is Overwhelming

I'm glad this thread made it to the front page. The "skeptics" are done. And I want to say to them -- I TOLD YOU SO -- as I'm sure many of us want to do. And they deserve it. Their pseudo-intellectual position that they insisted on holding, regardless of the mounds of EVIDENCE by credible witnesses speaks loudly about their dishonesty. To all of you who continue to deny, deny, deny, and make more excuses and imaginary explanations, I say just GTFO. You never contributed a single productive thing to this mystery and you don't deserve to be heard now.

a reply to: Visiting ESB

Not all sceptic's are created equally, some are genuine believers in NO UFO's and they are a little bit sad, other's are genuine open minded people that like to err on the side of caution, they refuse to accept until they face irrefutable proof.

Now we could argue that the sheer number of report's is irrefutable but we would then argue that a large number of those report's are of explainable thing's whittling it down and down and down.

The most infamous investigation was project blue book whose sole purpose it seems was not to truly bring information to the public but to allay public fear and it did this by lying bare faced to the public, it was led by a Sceptic whom fell into the very first category of someone that Believed there were NO UFO's and whom despite huge amount's of evidence for there existence gathered during that investigation came out with the swamp gas explanation which is of course a pile of crap.

Now whether or not he came to accept the truth of there reality and that some of them are quite possibly of non human origin we may never know but that whole investigation was a deliberate white wash, the US was in a time of tension with the USSR and everyone was afraid, panicky and on edge expecting a nuclear war to break out at any time so the government in the US wanted something to assure the US public there was nothing to worry about, Project Blue book ended up being that very thing, they turned witnesses into a laughing stock, it got so bad for some of them that they were laughed out of there home towns or committed suicide having become the town fool's because they had told someone that they had seen something.

Had blue book spoken the truth we may never know what would have happened but likely such incidents of persecution of UFO witness and abductee's would never have occurred and people would have been more open minded BUT they may also have been a little bit more on edge and felt less secure than the illusion the government of the US wanted to project onto them that they were in control, that there was nothing to worry about and that if it came to a war with the USSR which the cover up at that time was all about then they would win, of course there would have been no winners and the whole point of the UFO's since the betty and barney hill case went public is that they are not of human origin (or not at least of current humanity in there origin since despite it's unlikeliness we can not exclude the possibility of time travel).

For me there is a definite core of very real unexplainable cases, too many reliable witness to deny that they have seen something and too much of the characteristic's of what they have seen fall well outside of our known technological and scientific capability's (that is our KNOWN capability's at our current stage in science and technology) such as craft making instantaneous stop's with would mean they have either some way to negate inertia (gravity and mass control) or are actually not moving at all but employing some form of micro teleportation technology which we perceive as movement or are being projected from somewhere else, object's which apparently fly into the ground and water or even through solid objects like mountain sides without creating explosion's or splashes and the ability to move as fast under water with no apparent wake as in the air (so some method of cancelling friction entirely or passing through that matter in a phased state), many of there demonstrated characteristic's fall more in line with parapsychology than our known technology, long before we had the concept of teleportation as a scientific idea we had Aport's a form of spiritual (or mind over matter quantum) matter manipulation, in one famous case a rather fat medium in London in the 1800's was asleep soundly in her bed and at the same time a séance was being conducted by another unrelated medium half way across London when to everyone's surprise including her own this large lady popped from her bedroom into the air over the table being used in this séance and fell down onto it with a crash breaking the table in the process still in her night dress, she was apparently not injured but.

Other paranormal claim's include a story about a monk in Lhasa in Tibet whom disappeared many century's ago in a monastery there, he was said to have mastered the ability to walk through solid walk's and during renovations of the monastery when builders were taking down a wall they found human bones fused into the stone's as well as a monk's prayer bead's much like the story of the Eldridge which while unreliable remains a great mystery story about a ship that was supposedly the victim of a scientific mishap, using electromagnetic waves the story goes that they attempted to make the ship invisible to radar but instead the ship completely vanished except for an indentation in the water were it's hull was, when it came back after the generators were turned off men were according to that story fused into the metal of the ship almost as if they had phased through it only to then be trapped in that state when the matter returned to it's original quantum resonance pattern with the removal of the field they had generated to try to make it radar invisible though as has been pointed out on this site time and again the Eldredge either did not exist OR it was another ship (of course the US was spitting out so many ship's from it's ship yards during the war that it would have been perfectly reasonable to hide a missing one and replace it with an identical one).

But the point is that UFO's seem to bridge the gap between physical science and the paranormal, alien's walking through wall's, teleportation, levitation and telepathy are features of many account's and most that have seen them also have had other paranormal experiences in there lives, not all there is a definite hard core of completely mundane down to earth individual's and trained observers whom have seen them, radar tapes have existed but gone missing or been conveniently erased in most cases that have backed up sightings of pilot's etc.

So yes the balance is in favour of we the believers being the correct side of the coin but let's not beat up on the sceptic's just yet they serve a very constructive purpose, they prevent our belief from spiralling out of control, they keep cases down to the truly unexplainable one's and while some of them are liars like the head of the blue book project and will debunk tell porky's to advance there side other's are actually just fellow seekers after the truth, they just like to use there own version of Occom's razor to do so.

Not to mention other physical evidence.
en.wikipedia.org...
noufors.com...

Add to this physical indentations in the ground at some sites, damage to objects such as telegraph poles, tree's etc and many other thing's.

It also goes right back through our history from the shield's of alexander seen in the sky to the air ship (cigar shaped craft we would call them today) flaps of the 1800's to the UFO's of today.

originally posted by: neoholographic

I heard people ask, why would they visit us?

Yeah, that seems the most illogical question I hear all the time. When said as if there would be no point.

Chances are, if Aliens are here, they've been here from the very beggining of human existance and much longer than that.

Survival is the most essential purpose of all life forms on earth. I'm willing to bet it is exactly the same in the Universe.

Ultimately humans would have to get off this planet in order for the continuation existance of the human race. Whether that comes with the sun dying itself in 5 billion years, or an asteroid, climate change, or some other natural disaster. There have been 5 mass extinction events Earths history. There will be another one.

A smart move for us as a species would be explore space and use genetic engineering until ultimately our DNA continues. Whose to say that this isn't happening to us right now? Whose to say that we can't explore other dimensions and do the same?

As a species we think we're so smart, but we could be nothing more than lab rats to a species who have technologies so advanced that we cannot possibly comprehend, similar to explaing Quantum physics to a pet dog.

When you hold the belief that the government would never mislead you, having that very same government pretty much say to you.... We have been lying to you all along. Is a bitter pill to swallow. Because not only to you have to come to terms with someone you trusted deceiving you...... you also have all the people you insulted, people who love you, family members and friends, who in your moments of superiority belittled.
On top of that you are stuck with that little voice in your head asking....... what else have I been lied to about.

What is interesting to me, is all those in academia, who presented themselves over and over again as being far too educated to ever believe in such nonsense, no matter how much evidence was put forth, who have been on television shows over and over belittling people who have said.... I know what I saw...... seek to explain away their prior actions.

a reply to: neoholographic

That's theoretical physicist Michio Kaku, "doctor" theoretical physicist Michio Kaku thank you.

If you see a strange light in the sky it is unwise to assume it's from outer space, that's what bad ufologists do. I saw a UFO that i can't explain, but i live near a military base with the red blinking light that many other choppers use so i'm guessing aliens!!!

Skeptics know how to science. All these pseudo Ufologists could see a pony wearing a conical party hat and claim it's a unicorn.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Let me ask you a question. If people get it wrong do people also get it right?

Of course. And you know how that's best determined? With some kind of objective, verifiable evidence. If that's not available, should I just decide the things the witnesses describe happened just as they say? Why? Because they seem sincere? Because it seems to make logical sense? Well, that would also be "just my opinion.". That's why hard evidence is so important.

Maybe you have complete confidence that your judgment is always correct. You're never fooled, and you always figure out how a magician does their trucks. For myself, I know I can be mislead, so I like to have objective evidence. If that's not available, I'll give the witness the benefit of the doubt that they're describing what happened to them to the best of their ability. Even if it sounds completely crazy. Okay, you think you experienced this. Fine. But I won't automatically accept as true their interpretation of what happened, because then it becomes their opinion. That would just be stupid.

It's nice for those beings to land in front of a schoolyard and tell them that we should take care of our planet to a group of kids.
But it doesn't actually help us doesn't it?

Instead they show balls and give us the technology or assistance to do it would rather help us more then to demonstrate their powers and fancy saucers and send some adversaries to speak to us via a bunch of kids , because they match their size so that it's easier for them to communicate or what have you..

But as one kid said " They don't want us to grow technology " leaves me thinking who's actually in charge over our planet we or them ?

Well considering all the latest developments on almost every level , from technology to politics the last decade or two I think I can guess the answer...

In the late 90's I saw a light transiting the inland empire at very high speeds - I thought it was a satellite, but looking into it they dont fly straight and they dont move across the horizon in seconds - probably secret plane then, it was quiet to me.

Then few years later I saw a light in the sky and it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger I thought it was a nuke going off in space, an emp attack or something - found out later vandenberg was testing some sort of ground based space interceptor missle.

Years late I saw something transitting the moon with no lights and no sounds but clearly contrails - edwards was about to start fielding the global hawk - probably for border surveillance. I asked, they denied.

Years after that I saw a strange triangular shaped object that was very quiet - it looked like virgin galactics craft upside down - probably a drone. Predators are common in so cal especially in the ventura area, this was probably a beast or something else, it was very high, above commercial air traffic.

Months later I was on the backside of catalina island and I saw something out in the water about 5-7 miles away, it was big and I tried to get a photo but my camera would not focus and I couldnt use manual focus, it just came out as a blur. They are doing sea trials of our most advanced warship from seal beach and it has imagery denial and the most advanced sea based camouflage and signature reduction there is I'm sure.

A little before that SOAR (160th) aka black helicopters has been doing runs through the San Gabriel mountains for years, they operate out of edwards - saw one on time just as it was about to go over Cucamonga peak area, the tone changed and got very very quiet - that scene in clear and present danger where the bad guy can hear the blackhawks coming into Columbia - imagine seeing and hearing a regular helicopter and then suddenly it sounds very far away. I've seen them fly so low that they nearly touch the skip pads, at night from a distance it might look like a ghost that sounds like something else.

3 weeks ago I heard a sonic boom and then a minute later a t-38 I think - it was rolling so fast it was crazy and then in a blue sky it seemed to disappear.

2 weeks ago I saw a bunch of single seat cobras pass back and forth over palomar, very quiet, lights on the rear only with a faint IR screen glow as one went back west towards carlsbad, kind of looked like a Raider -impossible to tell without NV.

Finally last year I saw first one object moving in the sky at 3 am, thought it was a satelite, then another not to far behind it, just 2 dots of light brighter than the stars - they seemed to be turning towards the full moon but the odd thing Is I got the sense they were speeding up and slowing down, but when I looked at the video they seemed to be doing something which I assume now is rapidly gaining and losing altitiude - skipping off the atmosphere maybe I have no idea.

All of those by themselves are UFO's - I know some or all of a few the rest I have to guess, but not a single one would I describe as alien.

a reply to: circuitsports

You said:

All of those by themselves are UFO's - I know some or all of a few the rest I have to guess, but not a single one would I describe as alien.

That a key point. It's the difference from being stuck in Plato's cave and starting with the priori that it can't be aliens and living outside of Plato's cave and realizing aliens are a the most likely explanation for the overwhelming accumulation of evidence since humans could draw on cave walls.

Here's the reasons why extraterrestrial visitation is the most likely explanation for U.F.O. sightings, close encounters, abduction cases and more.

1. Common sense - we have recorded U.F.O.'s in our sky since humans can draw on cave walls. The only reason they remain unidentified because we have to debate with illogical pseudoskeptics about the existence of extraterrestrials over the years but thankfully, the page is being turnt to yes they exist and yes they've been visiting us. We have U.F.O.'s causing Nukes to malfunction, flying near space stations, doing mass sightings, close encounters and more over the years. Why can't we just catch them? Why don't we have a warehouse full of weather balloons? The Govt. could just say all the U.F.O.'s are just x and are Pilots catch them all of the time. These are just common sense questions and if you say alien visitation is a probable explanation then it's not a far walk to aliens are the most likely explanation.

2. Science - scientific discoveries from exoplanets to extremophiles have convinced many scientist that extraterrestrials exist. Here's Dr. Michio Kaku talking about it. Dr. Kaku has written some great books and been on many programs but notice the 1st thing pseudoskeptics did when he start talking about U.F.O.'s is call him names because they can't debate what he's saying. They did it to Edgar Mitchell. When he started talking about U.F.O.'s pseudoskeptics started calling him a senile old man.



Stephen Hawking came to the conclusion that Aliens almost certainly exist.

Hawking: Aliens exist, but contact could be 'too risky

British astrophysicist Stephen Hawking says aliens are out there, but it could be too dangerous for humans to interact with extraterrestrial life.

Hawking claims in a new documentary that intelligent alien life forms almost certainly exist, but warns that communicating with them could be "too risky."

www.newsday.com...

Panspermia is looking more likely with each discovery which means life seeds planets and there could be billions of earth like planets in our backyard. They have found the building blocks of life on comets and meteorites along with water on other planets. Here's a recent article talking about an extrateterrestrial protein may have been found in a meteorite.

Extraterrestrial protein discovered in meteorite for the first time

newatlas.com...

Ingredients for Life Found on Saturn's Moon Enceladus

www.scientificamerican.com...

3. Alien Probes - I have had 4 U.F.O. sightings and 2 looked like probes guided by intelligence. Why wouldn't advanced civilizations sent out probes equipped with Artificial Intelligence? We plan on doing it.

NASA Is Figuring Out How to Use AI to Build Autonomous Space Probes

Adding artificial intelligence to the machines we send out to explore space makes a lot of sense, as it means they can make decisions without waiting for instructions from Earth, and now NASA scientists are trying to figure out how it could be done.

www.sciencealert.com...

I think many U.F.O.'s are probes equipped with AI from an advanced civilization. Some of these probes may be from civilizations that have died out but their probes are still travelling through space and getting better at identifying bio and technosignatures to find planets like ours.

4. Government disclosure - Governments all over the world are being more open about U.F.O.'s.

‘Not made on this earth:’ Top-secret Pentagon UFO task force reportedly expected to reveal some findings

According to a recent report from the New York Times, a top-secret Pentagon program has been conducting classified briefings for over a decade, analyzing various encounters between military craft and unidentified aerial vehicles.

fox6now.com...

Pentagon officially releases UFO videos

www.cnn.com...

Maybe they realize, disclosure isn't in their hands.

I think the Existence of extraterrestrials is obvious of course we are not alone in the Galaxy/Universe .

But the fact that we as a whole Society still are not certain of there existence points to one of two things.

1 : They are out there yes but are themselves incapable of inter-galactic travel meaning they themselves have not yet figured away to cross the vastness of space to visit other intelligence's

2 : This being the more likely , We as a planet , We as a people are simply owned by an Alien species who do not want us knowing of there or any other Alien existence.

I'm not really seeing any other explanation that at this point in our inter-connected society that makes any since.

originally posted by: neoholographic
... We have U.F.O.'s... flying near space stations, ...

I must have missed that, when did it happen and where was the evidence? Maybe I'm ruining the party by requesting proof of one particular claim, but it's my way of calibrating the judgment of claimants. Like all the folks who touted the Jimmy Carter UFO story without a lick of basic verification effort because it was good propaganda true or not, they acted like they didn't care. Why should anyone believe anything they claim after that?

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: neoholographic
... We have U.F.O.'s... flying near space stations, ...

I must have missed that, when did it happen and where was the evidence? Maybe I'm ruining the party by requesting proof of one particular claim, but it's my way of calibrating the judgment of claimants. Like all the folks who touted the Jimmy Carter UFO story without a lick of basic verification effort because it was good propaganda true or not, they acted like they didn't care. Why should anyone believe anything they claim after that?

Here you go:

UFO At Space Station 22 Mins! Shoots out into space, UFO Sighting News.



UFO? Mysterious Beam of Light Shoots Past Space Station | Generation Tech



Jerry Linenger Saw A UFO From Space Station Mir



Hubble Spots Thousands of Objects Traveling Faster Than Light | NASA's Unexplained Files



UFO Enters Earth Atmosphere



3 Triangle UFOs Fly By The International Space Station



Live camera from the International Space Station ISS caught a UFO



There's some!

a reply to: JimOberg

I believe despite your mockery (and it is mockery) he is alluding to the possible use of a RAIL gun or other system trying to shoot down unknown objects one of which then goes into rapid avoidance but which your usual idiotic debunkers playing on the general public's susceptibility to supposed expert's claimed were ice crystal's reacting to solar heating and thrusting away under there own power as there surface supposedly vaporized when they entered sunlight, bit of a swamp gas explanation if you don't mind my saying so.

You are an intelligent guy, a man with credentials and years of working for NASA so why, you are no spring chicken if you may forgive my observation and we all have to meet our maker some day so why, you know more than you will ever allude it would NOT be a betrayal to speak the truth but of course if you genuinely believe they you are speaking the truth as you know it just as are the many witness to multiple event's throughout the course of human history from Alexander the great's army being aided by flying shield's in the taking of Tyre to them being stopped at the bank's of an Indian river by different flying shields diving and scaring there elephant's, and those are just two classical period account's that suggest a very long presence of something or someone on or around our planet, yes they could have been some unknown phenomena that has a mundane explanation or they could have been something?.

Air ship flap's of the 1800's mostly in later years were hundreds or even thousands of witness saw strange craft in the sky's over much of the world.

More crashes than a dog can wave it's tail at but if these were craft they were very good at self destruction or else who ever or whatever destroyed them most certainly was good at it.

Such as the Aurora Texas incident were the town even gave pilot a Christian burial though of course the body has long since been abducted by someone from it's burial site in the local churchyard.

Other odd but possibly related thing's and mysteries on the earth such as the Siberian cauldron's.
mysteriousuniverse.org...

IF YOU truly believe your side of the argument then that is laudable but don't mock, other's have there right to an opinion even if they are wrong, if so then correcting them in your more usual and intelligent fashion is far more in keeping with your status and position, mocking them merely makes you less than you are.

Ah my mistake not that incident with the supposed ice crystal's (and I am not in any way buying that they were ice crystals as you can see, I believe they were fired upon from the earth using a large rail gun system - I mean what do you really think those DUMB's were built for the US has had the technology for decades despite the lower tech navy prototype that was shown which is a much smaller weapon system and as a NASA engineer surely you can see how a magnetic launch system and a rail gun are more or less the same thing just the rail gun propels it's payload to a much higher speed) but were fast enough to take avoidance before it hit).

originally posted by: neoholographic
Here you go:...
There's some!

Thanks for defining the pitiful level of 'evidence' that impresses you. I couldn't have portrayed it better myself.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: JimOberg

I believe despite your mockery (and it is mockery) he is alluding to the possible use of a RAIL gun or other system trying to shoot down unknown objects one of which then goes into rapid avoidance but which your usual idiotic debunkers playing on the general public's susceptibility to supposed expert's claimed were ice crystal's reacting to solar heating and thrusting away under there own power as there surface supposedly vaporized when they entered sunlight, bit of a swamp gas explanation if you don't mind my saying so.
....

You're referring to the notorious STS-48 zig-zagger, of course. Again, a good calibration of the level of 'evidence' for alleged unexplainability.

a reply to: JimOberg

Let's change the drift just for a moment, Verner Von Braun a NAZI whom was whitewashed by the US because they wanted his rocket technology.

Let's take a closer look at the NAZI's shall we, ever hear of the Vrill society, the Black Sun society or the Ahnenerb?.

No well you darned well should have working at NASA because of hell of a lot of there mumbo jumbo went into your agency through those NAZI scientists.

You see these were the Mystical arm of the NAZI's, neo pagan priesthood and psychic's featured a lot, they sent out team's to search for ancient technology which the NAZI of course believed in, they believed that they and they alone were descended from a former advanced race whom had far surpassed there current knowledge and had been destroyed long ago.

So in there search they sent people as far as India, South America and a great many other places searching for knowledge about flying machines', weapon's etc, India featured very highly in there interest as did Tibet and many other places.

Before we won the war they had tested a wire guided air launched anti ship missile sinking a troop ship carrying American service personnel BUT the RAF had managed to shoot down the modified bomber before it could get back and report it's success to the third Reich, they had mentioned thing's like Particle beam's which of course they could not yet build, had created the VI arguably the world's first MODERN cruise missile which used a pulsed detonation engine giving it a distinctive buzz as it flew, the V2 which in a modified state was what put your first satellite into orbit and were rumoured to be developing many other technology's such as the NAZI bell which bears a remarkable similarity to the Kecksburg crash UFO.

Over Nuremburg in 1561 there were apparently two distinct different group's of flying craft along with two gigantic mothership's witnessed by the citizen's of the city, they seemed to do battle in the sky and a contemporary wood carving made a short time later to depict the vent seems to show smoke rising from a possible crash site were something may have come down.
www.thegypsythread.org...

After they came to power in Germany in the 1930's the NAZI set out on an ambitious building spree and one of there early large scale work's was at Nuremburg were extensive excavation disguised as building work probably took place and may just possibly be were they got the Bell DIE GLOCK from (so it was NOT there invention but in typical primitive NAZI fashion they were probably trying to figure out some way to weaponize it for there own use).
museums.nuernberg.de...


So if there is any credence to any of this (And Verner Von Braun certainly seems to have believed in aliens and probably knew things he never shared with his new overlords) then I put it to you that REAL UFO's are certainly a possibility and REAL alien visitation OR at least non human intelligence within our region of space is also a definite possibility.

I also put it to you that NASA though a civilian agency knows more than they ever tell us.

And who can forget Walter Cronkite eh!????.