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The U.F.O. skeptics are in denial

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posted on Jul, 27 2020 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: celltypespecific
I can't believe I am going to say this but: I am starting to think the Alien Autopsy might have been real...these documents below are almost impossible to fake:


Of course Every alien that died on Earth that the military got its hands on has been autopsied by humans. But we have probably not seen the real films.




posted on Jul, 27 2020 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

I actually have a nuclear take on this topic. I think that the best possible outcome is that the government continues to cover up the existence of UFOs. Why? You might ask. here's why.
I have a friend who has a PHD in engineering and works on top-secret government projects. He says that the Admiral Wilson leak is particularly plausible, and that leak suggests that the US is already in possession of an alien craft. From what I know about classified projects, it would be easy to hide such a salvage operation even from congress by hiding it in another program. Since I think america is the greatest country on earth, I support this.
In short, if we can keep our gamebreaker special projects secret for long enough, we will crush china and russia like a bug.
And who doesn't want that?



posted on Jul, 27 2020 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: Auryx

I SEE your point and understand your patriotism, for me though and remember I am British not a US citizen any such technology should be considered before being used, it could be a trap and who know's what motives an alien species may have for letting us have it.

Also such technology should be used for the good of humanity, for world peace not conquest unless and only unless that is the only way to achieve peace but such conquest would necessitate the complete denial of all the US is supposed to stand for, Justice, freedom and Human Right's as outlined in your constitution - all men created equal.

Still I would rather it was in the US hand's than some other nations, for that matter ANY other nations just not in the hands of private corporations unless that is a way of filtering it down to the public and therefore the world.

Military technology derived from it should be KEPT in the US as such could create a new arm's race and lead to a paranoid planet full of lunatic's that want to blow themselves up with the false impression that they are going to some mythical paradise or political extremists that simply want chaos would only end up imploding sooner or later - indeed it still may but if the US has a trump card in it's hidden pocket that it can pull out when there is no other resort that can then be used to save the day then all is good and well.

I just do not want to see such being used for control or aggression or you may be rather surprised to find the being's that created that technology may well take offence, they may even put us back into the stone age since we have then abused there technology and who know's out possessing it and NOT developing it ourselves may even be against there laws in some way.

There is also every possibility that the Russkies may have there own, probably secreted somewhere in Yemantu, that said it may be that we are only recently becoming advanced enough to be able to reverse engineer some of the technology and the US, Russia and a few others' may have had and been sitting on either very ancient or very alien technology that they simply could not reverse engineer or understand for a lot longer than you may think.

edit on 27-7-2020 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2020 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: Auryx
a reply to: neoholographic

I actually have a nuclear take on this topic. I think that the best possible outcome is that the government continues to cover up the existence of UFOs. Why? You might ask. here's why.
I have a friend who has a PHD in engineering and works on top-secret government projects. He says that the Admiral Wilson leak is particularly plausible, and that leak suggests that the US is already in possession of an alien craft. From what I know about classified projects, it would be easy to hide such a salvage operation even from congress by hiding it in another program. Since I think america is the greatest country on earth, I support this.
In short, if we can keep our gamebreaker special projects secret for long enough, we will crush china and russia like a bug.
And who doesn't want that?


Ummmmm, peace loving people who think all our wars are stupid. Sorry, but the US gov has shown major incompetency with tech that was eventually know let alone some crazy alien tech that we don't understand. The whole reason the gov had to admit to area 51 was because the people that worked there were suing because they were forced to burn hazardous waste in open pits exposing them (and us!) to deadly carcinogens. How did we test nukes? Blew them up in a dessert not far from a major city and had soldiers walk toward the explosion! Or how about lovely agent orange. Yea, the gov was real trust worth with that one. Who cares how many of our own soldiers suffer and die as long as we root out the enemy!

Yea, no. I don't trust the gov with a dull knife let alone alien tech. It's amazing how people on here decry the gov one min but then suddenly love them when it supports their personal agenda.



posted on Jul, 27 2020 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Cronkite covers up aliens on moon!

Astronaut Gordon Cooper, who was a big believer in UFOs, said that there were no alien ruins seen on the moon – “I went over every inch of the film””. In response to an interviewer's direct question about Fred Steckling's book, he says this at 01:00:30 into the video interview on youtube entitled ."Астронавт США Гордон Купер 26 августа 1995 г в Санкт-Петербурге"
www.youtube.com... "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJMrU8WCeWY&t=1943s"&HYPERLINK "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJMrU8WCeWY&t=1943s"t=1943sHYPERLINK "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJMrU8WCeWY&t=1943s"

Edgar Mitchell to UFO convention, at time 10:35
www.youtube.com...

“I have had no first-hand experience even in the astronaut program, saw nothing on the moon -- no villages no structures etc, like have been claimed, and have had no UFO experiences myself ...."



posted on Jul, 27 2020 @ 09:11 PM
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a reply to: JimOberg


Jim, you are my favorite skeptic. I didn't work at NASA like yourself.

www.youtube.com...

I don't know what film Cooper was given access to but he sure believed they were here.

www.express.co.uk...

As for Mitchell, the video has been taken down.



posted on Jul, 27 2020 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: play4keeps

I think people forget a railgun fires a 23 pound projectile twice as fast as 2oz 55gr bullet - the sound level as that projectile went march 7 would be extremely loud. Definitely miss any piloted craft that has left the atmosphere who would see the flash long before the round arrived, if it even could shoot into space in the first place. The highest we ever shot something was 110 miles - 130 miles short of the space station but more important the apogee was 110 meaning it went to 0mph at that altitude. Considering the scale shown you would need a weapon capable of shooting something into orbit thats still as fast as a fast meteor.

Maybe they could test a drone target in orbit with some super rail gun we havent seen yet but I think using plasma weapons would be more inline with what is being seen in these videos. Unless they are testing a super fast space cannon to shoot down satelites and the flash is not a response to the object leaving orbit, but the speed at which the explosion behind it actually makes it way into orbit.

Looking at some of the more informed thought on rail guns suggest the projectile would need to leave the barrel at around 40,000 miles an hour - 8X what we have now and that the current material would liquify before it left the barrel and the shockwave would kill everyone inside of 100 mile radius.
edit on 27-7-2020 by circuitsports because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 07:11 AM
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Nothing material to add, but just to say I absolutely love this thread. It's what brought me to ATS in the first place many many years ago before it became a YouTube comments section.

Thank you for the interesting read and to everyone on both sides for the pleasant discussion

edit on 28-7-2020 by fencesitter85 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: JimOberg

Thanks for the update on the Mitchell video, I made a quick search for an alternate copy but couldn't find any.

Cooper's beliefs were well known based on two personal stories from 1951 and 1957, and later hearsay -- but nothing he encountered at NASA. BTW, where have you ever seen any independent verification of his 1951 and 1957 stories, like additional witnesses or documentation -- shouldn't that be SOP for serious ufologists?



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 09:35 AM
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It’s not a deduction it’s an assumption. The best deduction you could make would be that they are terrestrial, why in your minds eye is it more likely to, if proven real, to be proof of life on other planets... found here on OUR planet. That’s logical deduction in your mind? Sound scientific thinking? Sheesh... you couldn’t prove it any different than asserting they are built by gods, you understand it’s no different than trying to prove faith is correct? .
a reply to: FishBait


edit on 28-7-2020 by Rob808 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: JimOberg

Thank you for those link's and sorry if I was a bit rude earlier, I believe you are an honest man.

Can't read Cyrillic unfortunately though for religious reasons I have recently taken an interesting Aramaic another near eastern language and script.

You know that much time has past on the earth (I am in two mind's about this since I am also a creationist and have not resolved this dispute between my faith and education completely yet - but the earth may be a lot younger than we thing BUT going with the standard scientific view - ) and our own existence is so far such a tiny blip in the course of event's that near anything could have occurred on this planet before that.

A long time before us though perhaps and of course the longer the time the more nature, erosion and geological action conspire to remove all trace of what may have been before.

Before even our own continent's which to us seem so solid, so permanent there were probably other's that are now long buried into the mantle and pushed under newer continents.

If there were or are artefacts out there then unless they whom made them have left us a method to translate there meaning, unless they are thing's we can relate to and assuming anything could survive such a long time span then they may be utterly incomprehensible to us, perhaps only mathematics could then provide a bridge between our species even if they looked like us since there mind's may have been utterly different.

Still seeking them is one of the thing's that get's little boy's to look through there telescopes, dreaming the improbable dream of one day going out there and seeing it in person.

Personally I think NASA has done a great job for humanity and you are a part of that so have very right to be proud, I do believe that some thing's have covered up or simply ignored some thing's that people would have found fascinating, perhaps scary but I don't believe this was with malicious intent and as far as NASA is concerned this may not have really been there decision (and most staffers probably have no idea what ever about this) and may have been through the influence of other agency's of course other than obvious air brushing or other forms of obfuscation of areas - that could also be explained as errors due to transmission or encoding of the image data - there is no real proof to back up my opinion.

That said you are a boon to this site so thank you for often correcting and bringing both a level head and great intellect to play and for speaking to less than qualified laymen like myself on these matters.

edit on 28-7-2020 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: Rob808
It’s not a deduction it’s an assumption. The best deduction you could make would be that they are terrestrial, why in your minds eye is it more likely to, if proven real, to be proof of life on other planets... found here on OUR planet. That’s logical deduction in your mind? Sound scientific thinking? Sheesh... you couldn’t prove it any different than asserting they are built by gods, you understand it’s no different than trying to prove faith is correct? .
a reply to: FishBait



Why would the best assumption be terrestrial? The universe is unperceivably vast and it's generally accepted there must be "alien" life out there. Again, do you have any solid reasoning/proof UFOs are terrestrial? We have no known tech anywhere near the capabilities of the objects seen. 90 degree turns, flying in an out of bodies of water, acceleration that would kill a human or rip apart known materials, flying from the atmosphere to space and back etc etc. Also, to be clear I think the majority of UFO reports over the years are explained known phenomenon/hoaxes but there is enough unexplained that we have to take it seriously they are alien or part of some super secret human project.

So your assertion is they are all part of a super secret space program decades (probably centuries) ahead of known technology? And this system has enough people to operate it (it would take thousands) and not have any info leaks? We went from horses to Star Trek in 100 years after being stuck at horses for thousands of years?



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 10:58 AM
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ANOTHER BREAKING NEWS FROM THE NYT!!!!!!!!!!!!






Rejoice !!! Rejoice!!!



Current officials are now concerned about the potential threat represented by the very real, advanced technological objects: how close they can come to our fighter jets, sometimes causing a near miss, and the risk that our adversaries may acquire the technology demonstrated by the objects before we do.


www.nytimes.com...



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: stonerwilliam
What if they are just the farmers checking on their stock !



Yeah that's been playing on my mind too. Like they're waiting for us to reach 10 billion population then it's ecomically viable time for the harvest and the transfer of the Human produce to some other place for processing / canning.

To the OP

Thing is when it comes to UFOs seeing is believing so you can't blame the so called Skeptics in any way.

Before the experiences I genuinely thought anything to do with UFOs was hilarious but throughout my life and education I'd been programmed to be that way, heck even Star Wars / Star Trek etc were off no interest whatsoever, total nonsense. But seeing the actual UFOs and you just completely change and the truth is proven but only to you. The skeptics are in denial sure but that is a natural Human condition / conditioning by this society



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: celltypespecific

That's a slide from Hal putoff's 2018 YouTube video



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter



...... But seeing the actual UFOs and you just completely change and the truth is proven but only to you. The skeptics are in denial sure but that is a natural Human condition / conditioning by this society


So you saw a UFO?

An unidentified flying object

I don't think anyone would deny that you saw something you couldn't identify. Are you inferring that sceptics deny people see flying objects they can't identify?



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 12:37 PM
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It’s no different than assuming the unknown is angels because it fits your assumed world belief. Your attempt to rebuff my claim it’s more logical to be a terrestrial object is a lack of proof, your assumption has far less proof. I can prove objects found on earth came from earth, there is precedent for that, not for aliens though. It’s illogical to assume it’s something from far away when it far more likely it would be something from much closer. Your theory is created from a belief, neither is provable which is part of my point that ALL of this is speculation. Yet it’s unhinging for you that I challenge your world view on aliens, why is that? Your point is a plea from emotion.

You again assumed, this time I make an assertion of an ancient space program and even assume specifics about my (your) theory? Your ability to reason it’s entirely governed by your own world view.

My assertion is your claim of following sound science in your personal theory is extremely flawed and built entirely on your faith in your belief. That’s my primary point, not to debate alternate theories on an anecdotal piece of evidence.



a reply to: FishBait


edit on 28-7-2020 by Rob808 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-7-2020 by Rob808 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Dr. Kaku would be wrong.

If I say an alien from whereever Centauri landed on my front lawn...and no one else saw it, the burden of proving my claim is all mine.

Not yours. Mine. ...and, yes, even though I've seen UFO's on a couple of occasions I remain skeptical that it's aliens.



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: hawkguy
a reply to: celltypespecific

That's a slide from Hal putoff's 2018 YouTube video
Not exactly. Here's the slide from 9:12 in Hal Puthoff's presentation. Someone has been changing slides, Hal Puthoff's slide says "possibly including off-world""


The intelligence agents get training on how to feed us BS:

Too bad there's no course for us in the pubic to teach us how to tell when we are getting fed "deception" by the intelligence agents. How do we know? When slides change?


originally posted by: mirageman
So you saw a UFO?

An unidentified flying object

I don't think anyone would deny that you saw something you couldn't identify. Are you inferring that sceptics deny people see flying objects they can't identify?
Neil DeGrasse Tyson explained it. "I saw something I couldn't identify, therefore it was alien" His suggestion was to just say "I saw something I couldn't identify" and stop there, but what fun is that?



originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: neoholographic

Dr. Kaku would be wrong.

If I say an alien from whereever Centauri landed on my front lawn...and no one else saw it, the burden of proving my claim is all mine.

Not yours. Mine. ...and, yes, even though I've seen UFO's on a couple of occasions I remain skeptical that it's aliens.
What nobody in this thread has mentioned yet is how utterly stupid the research was that Kaku referred to. Part of it discussed the Nimitz event, where someone made this re-creation of about what Kevin Day's radar showed, which shows 9 radar returns or "UFOs", he didn't know what they were, no transponder IDs:


So he's got all these blips. A blip disappears and another blip appears elsewhere, and he assumes it's the same object? That's nuts. Well he couldn't see the blip disappear where Fravor was because of the "merge plot" condition where the returns are on top of each other, but Fravor said it disappeared. Then this scientist, using a not very scientific method writes that the blip that appeared may not be the same thing that disappeared, because it wasn't tracked on radar traveling to the new location. So if he had any sense he would have stopped there. But he didn't have any sense, so he continued, despite the fact there's absolutely not a single shred of evidence that it's the same blip that popped up elsewhere, and he said let's assume it is the same (as Kevin Day assumed for no good reason), and let's do some calculations that show how incredible the performance must have been to go from point A to point B that fast, it must have had 150g's of acceleration and so on with his garbage in, garbage out calculation.

So, Michio Kaku apparently sees a paper from this scientist, saying 150g's and mach 20 and performance no earthly vehicle is known to have, this is compelling evidence for aliens. Did Kaku read the part where the scientists explained that there's not a shred of evidence supporting the assumption it was the same object? The scientist also mentioned there were multiple other unidentified objects in the area, which adds further doubt to the calculations? Did Kaku get any of those caveats? It's really a horrible paper from a scientific perspective even if it's not technically wrong, to go calculating these extreme performance values when the scientist who does that points out himself so many more likely alternatives that Occam's razor points to, that it probably wasn't the same object.

Then Kaku proclaims "Burden of proof has shifted", a sad day for science indeed when a scientist says something so unscientific.

edit on 2020728 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Jul, 28 2020 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



...... But seeing the actual UFOs and you just completely change and the truth is proven but only to you. The skeptics are in denial sure but that is a natural Human condition / conditioning by this society


So you saw a UFO?

An unidentified flying object

I don't think anyone would deny that you saw something you couldn't identify. Are you inferring that sceptics deny people see flying objects they can't identify?




err.................. I am saying that until the 'sceptic' over whom there previously many on here who changed due to an experience sees a UFO then how can that human being be a believer when there was no background brain washing / education into forming that mindset. There is no proof of g-d but that mindset is instilled in people through the education system therefore many believe with no proof whatsoever other than scripture


By experiencing a full on UFO then the individual becomes a believer
Until then you will always be that sceptic due to the way yu were educated / brainwashed from birth



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