Blackface vs Womanface

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I hate everyone equally.

Your consistency and the strength of your convictions is legendary!

Women + Angry seems to be my typical encounter.

I can't (cough!) imagine (gag!) why (choke!)... but it seems to me then that Angry Orchard is perfect! And you're in luck, because I share. I'm just awesome like that.

a reply to: Boadicea
Bod: jumping in here as well...just why hasn't things changed?

Ah, theatre. I myself was in 2 productions of Man of La Mancha, Camelot, Fiddler, Becket, How to succeed in business...it's always been the norm w blackface and womenface.

Even our kids in school play "a tree" or something else.

There are explanations as to why...but they don't hold-true anymore

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Boadicea

What about black men doing white women face?

Protected class...like Transgendered Mimes.

So a silent woman? That's kinda like bigfoot or a unicorn.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Boadicea

What about black men doing white women face?

Good question. Well, at least I'm including it in my considerations now...

And in this case, not just any White womanface, but ditzy blond bimbo type womanface.

And as previous poster pointed out, it would be a whole different story if a White man were to don "Blackface" to impersonate any Black woman or a specific woman, like Oprah.

We're far past just double standards... now we're into triple and quadruple standards.

a reply to: Boadicea

Your not old enoughn to rember Uncle MIton Berle as a woman dressup. Jack Benny too, many of the old line comedians dressed up as women no nessarly as drag queens, allthough the three stooges did a short called jingle bell drag.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Boadicea

Come, listen all you gals and boys, Ise just from Tuckyhoe;
I'm goin' to sing a little song, My name's Jim Crow.

Please don't misunderstand me. I fully understand the hateful and hurtful nature of original Blackface and why it's so appalling and insulting. I am not trying to minimize or defend it in any way.

My point is that much of the drag performances applauded today are just as hateful and hurtful to women, in the same way and for the same reason.

So I do not understand why Blackface is condemned while womanface is applauded.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Boadicea

What about black men doing white women face?

And in this case, not just any White womanface, but ditzy blond bimbo type womanface.

As AM pointed out, science says all white women must be that way.

We're far past just double standards... now we're into triple and quadruple standards.

The worse part about it is if you point it out, it makes YOU the racist or whatever 'ist' they want to call you.

a reply to: Boadicea

What a great question! Always like your thoughtful posts.

I suspect it is because our culture still holds men to be somewhat superior to women. Blackface might offend a black man, whereas nobody seems to care if drag is mocking, not of women biologically but of the feminine.

I have a gay friend who owned a drag club back in the 70's with his partner. They put on huge shows and while his end of it was mostly electrical, lighting and sound, I can glean from his stories that at the time the concept of drag developed because it allowed them access to the feminine side of nature. Both patrons and participants were at the club primarily because they were gay but it was freeing at the time to be allowed to enjoy so called feminine things like dressing up, fancy fabrics, dance music, etc. because society strictly forbid it for men. So it becomes a bit of forbidden fruit.

Had an intoxicated male friend put on one of my skirts at the beach once. He dropped his pants right there and ran down the beach yelling about how "freeing" it was. I had never thought of it from that perspective.

The drag world does tend to try to do it respectfully but I always found pantomimes to be irritating because the drag characters were shrill and hugely made it uncomfortable to be female in the audience.

In high school, some of my friends did a Pointer Sisters air band thing in blackface and they did it because they loved the song never to mock blackness. I hope it doesn't come back to bite them now, kinda unfair as times were different and they were about 17 years old at the time.

No rhyme nor reason, other than women may have legal equality but not social. Our world just isn't there yet... its like living with mental toddlers.

Just my thoughts first thing in the morning, first cup of coffee.

originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Boadicea

What about black men doing white women face?

Protected class...like Transgendered Mimes.

So a silent woman? That's kinda like bigfoot or a unicorn.

Like Bigfoot...Women are permitted to communicate by grunting, howling...and banging on logs.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Boadicea
Bod: jumping in here as well...just why hasn't things changed?

Ah, theatre. I myself was in 2 productions of Man of La Mancha, Camelot, Fiddler, Becket, How to succeed in business...it's always been the norm w blackface and womenface.

Even our kids in school play "a tree" or something else.

There are explanations as to why...but they don't hold-true anymore

This ^^^. My mind is mulling this as I write this.

Much like common gender roles and norms, there were practical and logical reasons for many that were beneficial at one time, but as times change and technology changes, are not so practical today.

But it seems that as we try to correct or improve what no longer works for us, we just create more problems. Or, at the least, the new solutions only work for so long before they become corrupted or obsolete as well.

So it seems that we need -- more than ever -- to think in terms of natural laws and principles that do not change over time or circumstances, rather than trying to make up rules here and there as we go along. So, natural law and principle says that no one should be making fun of anyone... and if we condemn one we must condemn the other. No special circumstances or privileges.

I hope that makes some sense. I don't know how to say it better!

originally posted by: Cymru
This comment alone is worthy of requesting a "like" button

2nd

I'm offended that your not offended by my offensiveness.

What would happen if Robert Downey Jr. played Lincoln Osiris playing a white woman in blackface?

originally posted by: FauxMulder
what the hell is MCP?

Master control panel?
Media communication processor?
Market clearing price?
Master of city planning?

I'm hoping it's either Male Chauvinist Pig or Massively (Another Name for a Male Chicken)-ed Person.

Either would be an appropriate descriptor of yours truly.

a reply to: Boadicea

Blackface has a terrible dark history.

drag does not. Or at least not one that I am aware of.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

But it's okay if select celebs did it tho rite?

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
a reply to: Boadicea

Flip WIlson as Nadine?

D'oh! It was Geraldine!!! I don't know why, but it just popped into my head...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Ahhh, makes sense now. My next guess was Male Circumcision Procedure. I really need to do a better job of internet acronyms.

a reply to: FauxMulder

As AM pointed out, science says all white women must be that way.

Ahem. I refuse to resemble that remark!

The worse part about it is if you point it out, it makes YOU the racist or whatever 'ist' they want to call you.

Darned if that isn't true of a lot of things. All to shut down and drown out dissenting opinions (and truths).

Our words are being taken away from us, the very means by which people are able to communicate ideas and feelings and concepts. Without words, we cannot even attempt to understand each other, much less find common ground and a happy medium.

I liken it to the story of the Tower of Babel.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Boadicea

Blackface has a terrible dark history.

drag does not. Or at least not one that I am aware of.

This is very sadly true.

But it also seems that modern "Blackface" is not the same mocking and degrading nature as it once was, and at the same time drag seems to become increasingly mocking and degrading towards women. And of course not all drag performances.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Why is Blackface bad but Drag is good?

Generally speaking, being a woman..or rather, looking like a woman (as in makeup, dress, etc) is all social constructs. take off the makeup, cut the hair, wear baggy jeans and you won't be representing societal views of a woman (You'll still most likely look female though unless you start glueing hair to your face).

Being black isn't something you try to work on...black people don't smear blackness on them in the morning...its just how they look, naked, dressed, etc.

So, one is a image worked on, the other is simply a biological trait