Blackface vs Womanface

Why is Blackface bad but Drag is good?

This question has bothered me since I knew both were a thing. Lately, as more and more celebs are being shamed for donning Blackface, but drag -- even by young boys! -- is increasingly applauded, I don't understand how one is so horrible and the other is so wonderful.

Generally speaking, I don't like many impersonations because mocking and ridiculing in the most insulting fashion seems to be the only purpose. Not always, but more often than not. So for the same reasons, I put both (modern) Blackface and womanface in that same category. I don't want it criminalized. I don't want anyone "cancelled." I can just dismiss it for what it is, leave other people to it, and walk away.

I've read some defenses (and that's really all they are). Some are based pretty much on which "protected" group is more "oppressed." But let's just say it's all circular reasoning at best. I know... I know... there's a lot of circular reasoning going around on a lot of issues these days!!! But maybe if I can make some sense of this kind of logic it will help me figure out some other logic... if that makes any sense at all... So I want to hear what ATSers of all stripes think about it who do tend to demand deeper thinking about many things. Whatever you think.

To be clear, I'm not talking about transgender people who are living as a woman. I'm referring just to men dressing and performing in womanface for entertainment purposes. And I'm not looking for opinions about either one in and of themselves. Just in terms of how people can see the former as bad and the latter as good.

What am I missing???

Deface the man pig impostors #Womanface...
no justice no peace !! no justice no peace !!

a reply to: Boadicea

Because science has proven that women are inferior to men.

Now go get me a beer.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Boadicea

Because science has proven that women are inferior to men.

Now go get me a beer.

And watermelon damnit!

a reply to: Boadicea

Flip WIlson as Nadine?

A white man wearing 'woman face' is AOK to the Left...as long as that woman face isn't a black woman face.
Black trumps woman every time.

A white guy impersonating Oprah at a Halloween party...is ALWAYS a Racist...and should probably be immediately beaten with sticks.

a reply to: IAMTAT

My favorite sweater of all time:

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Boadicea

Because science has proven that women are inferior to men.

This is a scientific fact.
Women should all just accept this and tend to their chores...while wearing a sexy French Maid outfit...like God and Science intended.

originally posted by: Spacespider
Deface the man pig impostors #Womanface...
no justice no peace !! no justice no peace !!

That gave me a smile -- thank you!

But, that's pretty much it. Celebs are being "cancelled" and fired and shamed for doing it 10 years ago... and oftentimes it was not even done in an insulting way.

But RuPaul's Drag Race, Desmond the Amazing (child!), Drag Queen Story Hours at libraries -- all those are woke and wonderful.

There's no rhyme or reason.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Why is Blackface bad but Drag is good?

This question has bothered me since I knew both were a thing. Lately, as more and more celebs are being shamed for donning Blackface, but drag -- even by young boys! -- is increasingly applauded, I don't understand how one is so horrible and the other is so wonderful.

Generally speaking, I don't like many impersonations because mocking and ridiculing in the most insulting fashion seems to be the only purpose. Not always, but more often than not. So for the same reasons, I put both (modern) Blackface and womanface in that same category. I don't want it criminalized. I don't want anyone "cancelled." I can just dismiss it for what it is, leave other people to it, and walk away.

I've read some defenses (and that's really all they are). Some are based pretty much on which "protected" group is more "oppressed." But let's just say it's all circular reasoning at best. I know... I know... there's a lot of circular reasoning going around on a lot of issues these days!!! But maybe if I can make some sense of this kind of logic it will help me figure out some other logic... if that makes any sense at all... So I want to hear what ATSers of all stripes think about it who do tend to demand deeper thinking about many things. Whatever you think.

To be clear, I'm not talking about transgender people who are living as a woman. I'm referring just to men dressing and performing in womanface for entertainment purposes. And I'm not looking for opinions about either one in and of themselves. Just in terms of how people can see the former as bad and the latter as good.

What am I missing???

I think the difference is historically blackface was done in a very demeaning way to represent black people. On the other hand, a man playing a woman doesn't have the same baggage. A man playing a woman can be comedic in nature, but doesn't come with the historical context so it doesn't touch a nerve. On the other hand, dressing up in black face can illicit all kinds of negative reaction due to the history. Big difference.

The reverse is not true though. Black people can play white people in a demeaning way... such as movies like White Chicks but not nessarily the reverse.

Movies like Soulman would never get made in the current environment.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: IAMTAT

My favorite sweater of all time:

I think the glasses make her look smarter.

Only took Mrs Jenner a few months to becomewoman of the year

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Boadicea

Because science has proven that women are inferior to men.

Now go get me a beer.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Boadicea

Because science has proven that women are inferior to men.

Well, you're obviously not racist... good to know...

Now go get me a beer.

Oh bummer... not a beer in the house! I'm on an Angry Orchard kick this summer

a reply to: Boadicea

Because drag tends to be a gay thing.
We can't criticize anything gay-ish.

Like the young boy dancing in drag at a gay bar...totally fine.. No pedo there...noop...


But the world is full of social double standards.
Hot woman teacher sexing up a 16 yr old boy...nicccce.
Male teacher sexing up a 16 yr old girl...rape!!!

originally posted by: Lysergic
Only took Mrs Jenner a few months to becomewoman of the year

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Boadicea

Because science has proven that women are inferior to men.

Now go get me a beer.

Men are better at being woman than women....cool

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
a reply to: Boadicea

Flip WIlson as Nadine?

I loved Flip as Nadine! In fact, Flip was probably the first man I saw play a woman. I don't remember him as being insulting to women though.

I'd sure love to hear Flip's answer to this question though... More in terms of modern Drag Queens as opposed to "Nadine" though.

a reply to: Boadicea

Milton berle

a reply to: Boadicea

First off I am not racist but have you heard about the Irish taxi scam, go the airport and any decent Irish person will tell you NOT to take the black drivers cab, why?.

They have just been getting off the plane in Eira and taking over, one woman working in a bar whom lives in the city got into one of these foreign black African cab's, a Ugandan driver, he tried to over charge her about four or five time's the actual cost of the trip and she refused so he then called the Garda and accused her of making racist statement's and abuse.

Sorry it's gone too far when people in there OWN nation are forced to bow down to laws that were only ever meant to be guidelines and not oppress the native population, laws that were meant to stop discrimination now being used to ENFORCE discrimination against the native white population.

Sorry but this is a factual tale from Cork Airport and it was my mother and sister whom had flown over to see my brother Francis Leslie in Togher part of Cork whom were warned by a nice Irish lady not to get into the black drivers cab's and the Irish taxi driver whom told my mother about what was going on.

Apparently the police/Garda in Eira have been all for the foreigners and willing to accept there word over that of there own people which is a serious problem, it also shows that the Irish government has it's priority's well and truly fouled up.

Once again I hate racism but discrimination is a more touchy subject and what do you actually call discrimination, over here in England in the neighbouring county of Cumbria to mine which is Lancashire a CHRISTIAN adoption agency has just been punished by the court's for discrimination against GAY couples wanting to adopt, now this is a CHRISTAN adoption agency not a state adoption agency and they have a duty under there mandate to Christ to uphold GOD's Laws not those of man, the judge whom passed this particular verdict in my opinion either had his hand's tied by the laws passed in this OTHER Screwed up nation OR he was a prat and probably likes a bit of strange himself under the bench.


Blackface though IS bad for one reason, it was used to lampoon, to make foolish and to mock the black population usually in pantomimes and play's though also in the past it was genuinely used by white actor's to depict black people which while some may find this latter use offensive in my opinion was not so but the depiction of those black people at that time usually was offensive making them out to be subhuman or some such thing.

Men dressed as lady's, well I personally get uncomfortable with the subject and believe it is a mental health issue, I also believe it mock's woman and degrades them, these fake woman will never have to go through childbirth, never know what it is to suffer what woman do every month of there adult life until they pass the menopause and never have to go through the hot flushes that woman whom do pass that stage of there life have to go through.

Personally I think it is a symptom of our society losing it's way, losing it's identity and it's morality.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
A white man wearing 'woman face' is AOK to the Left...as long as that woman face isn't a black woman face.
Black trumps woman every time.

Very interesting observation. Black womanface would be extra bad because Blackface but not womanface.

A white guy impersonating Oprah at a Halloween party...is ALWAYS a Racist...and should probably be immediately beaten with sticks.

Another interesting observation, in that someone might just do a really good Oprah impersonation, perhaps one of many celebs he impersonates, but that would be forgotten if the impersonator dared to match skin color for the performance... Blackface by default.

Of course, Hollywood now seems hellbent on "cancelling" White actors period...

a reply to: Edumakated

I think the difference is historically blackface was done in a very demeaning way to represent black people. On the other hand, a man playing a woman doesn't have the same baggage.

This is true. In fact, many point to Shakespearean roots, when men played all parts in the play.

A man playing a woman can be comedic in nature, but doesn't come with the historical context so it doesn't touch a nerve. On the other hand, dressing up in black face can illicit all kinds of negative reaction due to the history. Big difference.

Curiously enough, it seems that the baggage is changing hands so to speak. Blackface has become far less demeaning to Black people, while drag is becoming far more demeaning to women.