If you embrace a racial identity you are part of the problem

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: xuenchen
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights,

😀

Excellent example. At the time that only included free white property owning men.

Quite a telling metaphor.

Ummm...I agree...as that was the culture those words were written to represent...

The wonderful caveat...is that despite that...either through intent or accident...the words as they were penned would eventually include all of those the original transcribers sought to exclude...

So those words are even more relevant today...and imbued with the spirit of that which a majority strive for...

I would also hazard...that we have much farther to go along that road as well...

I see glimmers of hope...I truly do...

If you and I...who once stood on opposing sides of disagreement...can actually set that aside and actually read the earnest intent behind our words...then I do have hope...

I would rather name you friend...than continue to disregard your worth...simply because I did not see quite out of your perspective...


That’s all it takes...

A willingness to actually step back apace from intransigence...

If you and I can make such small strides...then just think of the work we’ve cut out for ourselves...trying to convince the rest of these ass hats to do likewise...


I’m up for the challenge...

What say you...?

Anyone else care to Step on down the futures path...and truly...own...the steps they make...?





YouSir

I personally don't see anything wrong with being proud of your culture. And if skin color is an interracial part of that symbiotic relationship, then it just is and that doesn't make it racist. But it sure as hell can be. ex, the Angles, Banditos, Mongols and Pagans

Cultural dynamics is complex and can't really be given the attention it deserves on an internet forum.

If you want to take my class in Applied anthropology contact the registrar and sign up. You need to have fulfilled the requirements to take this upper division class. Extra credit for bring the Prof a Vanilla Latte.

There is a dress code....NO Brown Shoes!! strictly enforced!!! If you acquire 3 infractions you will get a 72 hr suspension and have 500points eliminated from your account.

a reply to: Puppylove

I've never understood why people care so much. Of all the most utterly pointless things you could use to judge people, the colour of their skin has gotta be the most shallow utterly meaningless thing you could ever choose to either make decisions about people or identify yourself with. I've met lots of people of all colours, assholes and #ty people come in all varieties, but the majority of people in general are just people trying to get by and live life, whatever they look like.

If everybody just stopped caring in general right this minute, the world would immediately become just a little bit better. What a #ing waste of time thing to focus on and obsess over.

a reply to: YouSir

No, people do melt, but it takes some time. Usually place like Little Italy and Chinatown are where first and second generation immigrants hang out and congregate. But get away from that first generation off the boat, and people tended to migrate out into the community at large more and more - become Americanized (in other words adopt more of that bland culture I grew up with as my own, lol).

When blacks lambast whites for having bland and stupid culture, that's pretty much the American one they're rejecting. Sure, we all flavor it with our own roots. My own brand has the English touches passed down from my maternal family for example, and I know Irish, German, etc., all have their own touches. We all cling to those places our ancestors left or the cultures that gave birth to them and that flavors the American whole.

a reply to: [post=25226840]Lumenari[/post

If anyone is trying to re-writhe history here it's YOU


www.history.com...

In Pulaski, Tennessee, a group of Confederate veterans convenes to form a secret society that they christen the “Ku Klux Klan.” The KKK rapidly grew from a secret social fraternity to a paramilitary force bent on reversing the federal government’s progressive Reconstruction Era-activities in the South, especially policies that elevated the rights of the local African American population.

The name of the Ku Klux Klan was derived from the Greek word kyklos, meaning “circle,” and the Scottish-Gaelic word “clan,” which was probably chosen for the sake of alliteration. Under a platform of philosophized white racial superiority, the group employed violence as a means of pushing back Reconstruction and its enfranchisement of African Americans. Former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest was the KKK’s first grand wizard; in 1869, he unsuccessfully tried to disband it after he grew critical of the Klan’s excessive violence.

This is from the first random link I found after searching for kkk history.

You don't like it? You want to smear it all around to fit your own. This ''re-writing history many conservatives are using now suggests that they are so superior in their understanding. Bosh..

From that article.

Confederate who didn't want to give up slavery. Pure and Simple

A lot of folk on the ''right'' now like to say that was the Democrats that wanted to keep slaves, and point it out on a regular basis trying to get the unsuspecting to believe that that party was the same party it is today. So that is not an attempt to re-write history , just interpret it incorrectly to suit their own ends.

Sorry you have fallen for their ruses.

It wasn’t really evident, when it was said that all men are created equal.
It was true then, but wasn’t really the practice, was it?

Racism is still institutionalized.
I think this is really the root of the reason that there needs to be a reminder that black lives matter (too).

It’s not racist to have to raise your hand over and over, just to say “hello? Yeah we also matter” .

a reply to: YouSir

All of the American documents were based fundamentally on the philosophy of John Locke. I'm glad to say that those ideas were expansive enough to give culture time to catch up with idealism.

I love people who disagree with me. I have to contemplate my beliefs, and sometimes, I change.

However, the disagreement has to be logical, reasonable and most importantly ... factual.

Sad to say, those qualities are in short supply these days for many.

I think you and I have grown a bit by interacting with each other, at least.

a reply to: olaru12

I don't give two #s if some people think their skin pigmentation is important, or that it has cultural significance. The topic is, how to combat racism, and what are the roots of it, and what things encourage and promote it. Every culture on the planet could practice such nonsense (Which they don't and you full well know that if you're one quarter as studied as you claim) and it will still be a part of the problem. It doesn't matter how many people think their skin color matters and decides to embrace it as an identity more meaningful than just pigmentation, everybody and every culture, or some people and some cultures can be wrong, or at minimum the cause of certain problems.

Any belief in race, and the promotion there of, by it's nature is the root of all racist thoughts and beliefs. Such beliefs can only flourish if people accept them as true. I don't, so I'm not part of the problem, but everyone fighting tooth and nail to be some special snowflake because they have some physical characteristic different from someone else, and then bitching that they are treated differently because of it, is. The only reason those characteristics matter is because every damn person insists they matter. Stop #ing insisting on this #, and just be a #ing human being and it will all go away.

Things were getting better, then suddenly black identity mattered and people all over started self segregating and making a counter culture against simply being American based entirely on the color of their skin. I blame politics, the entertainment industry, and vampiric identity political hacks for this change. Not that the people who have fallen for those preying on them are entirely without responsibility. It's sad really, there was such a big push to become one people, but that couldn't happen, no profit there and a people united is straight out not allowed, instead back to separate but equal. Which of course never means equal.

a reply to: YouSir

I'm actually a quite a mix a few different continents.

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

The problem is that minorities are profiled by the police.

Take this video for example. The police have a habit of just coming up to black people and saying they are a person with warrants when they are in fact not. The police are violating peoples civil rights on a constant basis. This has to stop.

a reply to: Puppylove

I will disagree with you.

I'm firmly of the belief that attacks by authority is not based on skin color but rather culture and attitude.
Take out the "thug" mentality of openly showing disobedience, lack of compassion, "get rich or die tryin", carry a gat because some rapper ego-masturbates about it and the solution to every problem is direct physical confrontation and violence and we would see the number of these incidents drop.

Don't mind me however. I'm just a middle-aged, middle-class white male. (I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night though)

a reply to: UKTruth

The white population in this country is roughly 76% and black roughly 13% according to the census.

So almost 5 times more white people in this country. The numbers kind of make sense.

And I disagree with you. They just want to be able to walk down the street without being harassed by the cops.

a reply to: UKTruth

Improved? They seem to be regressing if you ask me.

a reply to: Puppylove


Well , the Only Philosophical Concept Human Beings should be Really Concerned about is the Difference Between what is Right , and what is Wrong . Anything Else becomes Self Evident then . Yes , existing in this World is as Simple as that .

a reply to: Puppylove

I admire your idealism for wanting a peaceful world. I hope you and I can both someday realize your dream.

Perhaps you can be a little nicer to people on ATS without playing the "but but" blame game and actually help foster the world you want. Just a thought....

I'm blessed to work in the entertainment industry that you hate and blame for the problems. Actually the entertainment industry is the most egalitarian culture with almost no racism, cross cultures working together to make Art. Or sometimes its garbage. It's free enterprise capitalism, Americans adhering to the 1st amendment of free speech and let the People decide what they want to watch.

Is that what you want to control? Honestly, you're smart, articulate, think outside the box and know how to write. Perfect for the Biz. plus you could watch and join a real life representation of what you dream of. You would be welcome in this community of brothers and sister working to make something that might give someone some enjoyment from their drab lives. We are the dream factory....

If you would be interested,,,I know people!

a reply to: grey580

so are the mentally ill www.nytimes.com... and again we come in all colors creeds and genders

A CANADIAN woman was denied entry to the United States last month because she had been hospitalized for depression in 2012. Ellen Richardson could not visit, she was told, unless she obtained “medical clearance” from one of three Toronto doctors approved by the Department of Homeland Security. Endorsement by her own psychiatrist, which she could presumably have obtained more efficiently, “would not suffice.” She had been en route to New York, where she had intended to board a cruise to the Caribbean.

its more evident that in any kind of mental health police call your more likely to be shot then those aforementioned minorities of which hey the mentally ill are also a minority and a protected class

www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org... -be-killed-by-law-enforcement-

People with untreated mental illness are 16 times more likely to be killed during a police encounter than other civilians approached or stopped by law enforcement, according to a new study released today by the Treatment Advocacy Center. Numbering fewer than 1 in 50 U.S. adults, individuals with untreated severe mental illness are involved in at least 1 in 4 and as many as half of all fatal police shootings, the study reports. Because of this prevalence, reducing encounters between on-duty law enforcement and individuals with the most severe psychiatric diseases may represent the single most immediate, practical strategy for reducing fatal police shootings in the United States, the authors conclude.

even hearing a suspect is mentally ill leads them to pretty much assume the worst even though we are much more likely to be victims of violent crime then the perpetrator mostly due to ignorance and stigma


www.pnas.org...
here is a break down from above source

Abstract We use data on police-involved deaths to estimate how the risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States varies across social groups. We estimate the lifetime and age-specific risks of being killed by police by race and sex. We also provide estimates of the proportion of all deaths accounted for by police use of force. We find that African American men and women, American Indian/Alaska Native men and women, and Latino men face higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. We find that Latina women and Asian/Pacific Islander men and women face lower risk of being killed by police than do their white peers. Risk is highest for black men, who (at current levels of risk) face about a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police over the life course. The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women. Risk peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for all groups. For young men of color, police use of force is among the leading causes of death.

1-1000 for African American males now i cant find comparable break down in numbers for the rate per 1000 for mentally ill individuals (of all races) but the fact that on average we account for 25%-50ish% of all police shooting victims when only 1 in 50 of people is mentally ill (take that out of curent us population of all races at about 328 million) and your left with an even smaller number of mentally ill killed at Much higher ratios then the African American population (roughly 37 million)

so out of give or take 46.6 million (based on 2017 numbers) while only roughly 10 million more then the entire African American population we account for again depending on source a quarter to a full half of all us shooting victims by police and again this includes all of us not divided by race mind you the cops just really really really like to shoot us and they lock us up at much higher ratios then the african american comunity


academicworks.cuny.edu...

A good barometer for the relative exposure that police get with mentally ill citizens would be the proportion of those currently in the criminal justice system with a mental illness. The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS)on behalf of the Departmentof Justice (DOJ)published a report suggesting that 56% of state prisoners, 45% of federal prisoners, and 64% of local jailswere afflicted with mental illnesses within the last 12 months (James & Glaze, 2006)

so depending on state vs fed vs other we range from 45% all the way up to 64% of the prison population and if you think the mentally ill are not profiled you are kidding your self,and as were much more likely to be killed in our own homes vs any other group in america we dont even have to leave our homes to be killed disproportionately by police

chicagopolicyreview.org... two snippets

Ac­cord­ing to the study, black men were the de­mo­graphic most at risk of be­ing killed dur­ing in­ter­ac­tions with law en­force­ment, but peo­ple with men­tal ill­ness across all racial groups faced height­ened dan­gers when in­ter­act­ing with law en­force­ment. In fact, their study found that 23 percent of all people killed by police officers displayed evidence of mental illness. Over­all, the risk of death as a re­sult of po­lice in­ter­ven­tion was seven times greater for peo­ple with men­tal ill­ness than for those with­out. Among non-His­panic whites, the risk of death was nearly ten times higher for those with a his­tory of men­tal ill­ness than it was for those with­out.

uses more conservative numbers then my other sources but then there is this aspect that i alluded to above

Fur­ther­more, individuals with mental illness killed by police were far more likely to have been within their homes than were those not found to have a history of mental illness. Gen­er­ally, po­lice shoot­ings oc­cur out­side of the home where an in­di­vid­ual is a threat to the gen­eral pub­lic, but more than 50 per­cent of peo­ple with men­tal ill­ness who were killed by po­lice of­fi­cers were shot in their own homes. The threat that these in­di­vid­u­als posed to the pub­lic was lower when con­fined within the bound­aries of their homes, rais­ing the ques­tion of why use of deadly force would have been nec­es­sary in such cases. The re­searchers sug­gested that, even for cases in which po­lice in­ter­ven­tion was nec­es­sary, po­lice of­fi­cers would have had more free­dom to wait for spe­cial­ized backup be­fore con­fronting in­di­vid­u­als at home.

so throwing in all these numbers we see even taking account of "profiling" into the picture we dont even have to leave our homes to have a 50% higher chance of getting shot in them then the rest of the population when in most cases we pose zero danger to community at large

even taking Hillary clintons old statement of "blacks are super predators" stigma the african americas have had to deal with we get it worse any time some one commits a mass shooting in the usa as if they were not muslim and terror related we end up being the nations scape goat its the first word out of every ones mouth must have been those scary mentally ill people.

a reply to: olaru12

I run games for my friends, I'm the groups bard of sorts. Keep everyone laughing and entertained.

As for what blame I lay at the feet of the entertainment industry, the promotion and propagation of thug culture. I think it's gone a long way in holding back progress and in many cases helping reverse it.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Gryphon66

Because I disagree with race and racism. Black lives matter embraces race the very thing I'm trying to do away with.

But you deny that race actually exists beyond a concept, right? Not that you want to work against the idea ... you said in your OP ... it's not real. It's illusion.

So it seems to me that the FIRST person that has to have no doubt of that is YOU. YOU are the point of change you want to see in the world.

What I hear you saying here is that race "shouldn't" exist, but, sadly, even as a concept, it does. Black Lives Matter has their identity wrapped up in Being Black. EVERYTHING they are depends on that.

How do you respond if I tell you your ideas, your heart, your beliefs ... are WRONG, that they don't exist?

Are you ready to listen to me now?

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: olaru12

I run games for my friends, I'm the groups bard of sorts. Keep everyone laughing and entertained.

As for what blame I lay at the feet of the entertainment industry, the promotion and propagation of thug culture. I think it's gone a long way in holding back progress and in many cases helping reverse it.

You're blessed to have a skill set to enact change from the thug culture. Show them your way to righteous thinking and a happy life style.

We started our production LLC with help from this...I'm at work now...It doesn't feel like work, it's fu**in fun!

www.celtx.com...