Trumps says US could sever all ties with China

originally posted by: JAGStorm

Right now China makes the bulk of the worlds shoes, seriously like 98%. Clothing..pfffft...Rare earth mineral, check! Like that cheap technology? I could go on and on. I am in no way saying we can’t bring these things back
Home, but it absolutely can’t be done in an instant. I don’t even think they would bring manufacturing home. It would probably go to Vietnam, Mexico, or maybe India. I hear India is getting pricey though.

Do you know right now the military can’t even get masks. We have local volunteer groups sewing for the military, police and first responders, they can’t keep up. Just imagine that, but with pretty much every product that makes up American life...

We all know that Trump likes to come off the top rope in thought and then temper it down to the right level once actions are taken. With China they are kind of making their own bed to lie in as they have in the last 10 years have gone very anti-corporation aggressive. They are thinking they do not need the world and how they have made it so difficult for outside corporations to do business there speaks volumes to this.

They developed this attitude of you need us, we do not need you, so to do business there it now costs 10 times what it did 10 years ago, they also put so much red tape in place that it is almost impossible to use any level of workers who are not Chinese. The rules they put on companies is they hold all the cards, get all the benefits as companies are forced to give up propitiatory information to put their foot in the door.

What does this all mean? It means it is not advantageous to do business there anymore with or without Trump. We saw this with Japan in the 70s and we moved on, so what makes this any different? The next China could be Vietnam, Brazil, maybe Mexico, many other places... Taiwan could easily fill in the gaps for electronics as they are the electronic's capital of the world. This is why China is so aggressive towards them as they could easily take over all world production as they bring in cheap labor from the PI and other places. They have the most chip factories in the world right now with a sophistication just below Intel, AND they are building a 12 billion dollar chip factory in the US as I write this.

As to shoes, clothing etc.. I'm shocked places like Nike are not already out of there and in other places.

China is in their biggest slump in the past 30 years with or without the virus, they peaked like 10 years ago and been hiding the decline ever since with fake economy surges like their huge infrastructure programs that is mostly faked. These buildings are not even lasting 5 years and many have no one living in them.

It will be interesting to see who is still in China in the next 5 years and just how bad China will get once all the capitalism has left.

Plenty of rare eath minerals in Africa. I mean just ask China.. theyve been raping africa for years.

We could drastically scale back on crap ( and I mean CRAP) from China. It wouldnt be hard.. and keep our meat finishing in this country.. not outsourcing it to China as we do right now. Their plants are gross and dont have the standards other countries do, not nearly as high as our own either.

It would be quicker and less painful to remove a regime than to move all manufacturing and etc from China.. Hmm.. imagine that.

a reply to: cenpuppie

Almost all modern cpus(processors) go through China, it's where they get binned and validated.

It's where they get made.

AND and Intel develop the chips and produce prototypes. Once the prototype is developed and thoroughly tested, the masks are sent to China and China produces the microprocessors, lock, stock, and barrel. All Intel and AMD do is sub the production out.

It works the same way for almost all semiconductors. We develop them; China makes them.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Advantage

The regime isn't the problem. Take this one out and another one equal to them will take its place. The problem is the culture.

You can't win a culture war through force of arms or through economics. All you can do is ensure they don't take unfair advantage.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Advantage

The regime isn't the problem. Take this one out and another one equal to them will take its place. The problem is the culture.

You can't win a culture war through force of arms or through economics. All you can do is ensure they don't take unfair advantage.

TheRedneck

I personally dont know how to do that other than crushing them. I think we have wasted years and gazillions of dollars trying to prevent them from taking advantage. The recent vaccine hacking attempt and the lies about covid .. and operatives in university positions... etc etc etc.... it seems like winning hearts and minds in China works about as well as it did in Iraq. It doesnt. It never did and never will. How to ensure they dont take advantage.... through might.


ETA
When we slap them on the nose for things as punishment or to correct the path... they just ran to Italy and Iran for trade deals. Its no wonder Italy adn Iran got hit so hard with Virus... they all were jetting back and forth to cement trade deals and etc.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
Automation is making the slave labor model obsolete. It will take a few more decades but it's going to happen. Trump is correct though. We really don't need anything from China. We could do many things here right now without them including drugs. It would not take long at all with a mobilization effort similar to WWII. It would break China's back.

Nope, the next slaves will be those who do automation. Technocrat Society will rise sooner or later because of advance technology. Anyone still supporting the old system needs to be shot because they are wasting future Generation time and planet resources since Fly cars promise. No space tech = no freedom. If the auto industry stops making cars and start making planes we be at space by now just like Star wars/Star trek.

a reply to: Jay-morris

There would be a few struggles obviously. As I stated earlier we need to spread out our dependence on other countries instead of relying solely on China for so much. Much like a diversified stock portfolio.

You agree that an immediate severance of ties with China would hurt the U.S. right?

What happens if China decides they want to sever ties with us?

So why should we allow that risk by being dependent on China for so much?

We could slowly start buying products and sourcing materials we normally get from China from other countries. Doing this slowly would cause little to no harm to the U.S.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: Jay-morris



So why should we allow that risk by being dependent on China for so much?

We could slowly start buying products and sourcing materials we normally get from China from other countries. Doing this slowly would cause little to no harm to the U.S.

Id LOVE to see more deals with Mexico, Central America, S America, Russia and Africa and removing dependence for goods and services on one hostile untrustworthy country.

a reply to: Alien Abduct

There would be a few struggles obviously. As I stated earlier we need to spread out our dependence on other countries instead of relying solely on China for so much. Much like a diversified stock portfolio.

It's this relying on China that has made million apon millions of companies in America successful, which of course helps your economy.

You agree that an immediate severance of ties with China would hurt the U.S. right?

Yes

What happens if China decides they want to sever ties with us?

Then their economy would be hit severely. So why would they do that? Most of chinas economy is based on export. So, only if they were on a suicide mission would they do as something as stupid as this. Makes no sense at all!

So why should we allow that risk by being dependent on China for so much?

Sorry, but this fear mongering talk is coming from America, not China. China is not threatening to cut their ties with America. If anything, a lot of you guys want that to happen, even though you have no clue what that would mean for your own economy.

We could slowly start buying products and sourcing materials we normally get from China from other countries. Doing this slowly would cause little to no harm to the U.S.

You really think if it was as easy as that, America would have done that a long time ago?

All these millions of American businesses who rely on China will disagree with you!

a reply to: Jay-morris

Don't like it? I don't care. USA USA USA

Dorian Soran

a reply to: Advantage

There is no winning hearts and minds in China. Their culture will not allow it. We in the West are seen as weak and inferior, primarily because we do not take advantage of others' weaknesses (at least, some of us don't). In China, it is expected to take full advantage of an opponent's weakness. To do otherwise is seen as foolish.

That's not the CCP's position; it is the Chinese way of life. they would consider welfare as an unnecessary drain on the country as a whole; those who are not productive should die off and allow room for those who are.

Ever met someone from China? I have... many times. They have this bright sunny smile plastered all across their face, but they will also stab you in the back first chance they get. A few of my acquaintances have been Chinese and Taiwanese nationals who had turned their back on their culture, and they are my source. The rest? That smile is a showing of respect. It is considered disrespect to be frowned at, and a show of disrespect is to be met with force. To do otherwise is to accept defeat and inferior stature in society. Social stature is everything to them. So they smile at everyone they see, unless that person is inferior already and cannot do anything about it (or has nothing that one needs and cannot take). Then and only then can they be safely frowned upon.

None of our leaders seemed to understand this until Trump came along. Ever wonder why he praises Xi Jinpeng? Because to do otherwise, in their culture, is to personally challenge him! You can't make a deal with someone you have just personally challenged. Instead, previous administrations kept insulting their leaders on a personal level and those leaders set the policy for the entire country: shame the United States! And they did.

I consider it a mark of progress that someone hasn't started WWIII with China so far through their bumbling. In previous centuries, that would have been the result of our ineptitude.

As for protecting ourselves, we simply enforce our standards on what they send to us, how they deal with us, and let their culture develop as it will. If we show strength of resolve and a refusal to accept their attempts to subordinate us as a people, they will gain respect for our strength and relations will improve. We cannot change them (nor should we; the Chinese culture is very old and very rich), but we can change how we deal with them.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Advantage

Id LOVE to see more deals with Mexico, Central America, S America, Russia and Africa and removing dependence for goods and services on one hostile untrustworthy country.

Seriously dude! Stop bring a hypocrite! Hostile country? So a country invading other countries for their own agenda, responsible for thousands, if not millions of innocent deaths is not hostile? Is it only hostile when it's not your country doing these horrible things.

I guess it's ok to fund terrorists too and fund the disgusting war in Yemen!

Nah, that's not hostile, because it's your country doing these things, but as soon as another country does horrible things, people lime you are on their back!

It's called conditioned patrioism!

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thats what I said.. you cant win hearts and minds there...

a reply to: makemap

Wow, I didn't realize you were an engineer. Tell me, what flight mechanism should we be using?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Advantage

There is no winning hearts and minds in China. Their culture will not allow it. We in the West are seen as weak and inferior, primarily because we do not take advantage of others' weaknesses (at least, some of us don't). In China, it is expected to take full advantage of an opponent's weakness. To do otherwise is seen as foolish.

That's not the CCP's position; it is the Chinese way of life. they would consider welfare as an unnecessary drain on the country as a whole; those who are not productive should die off and allow room for those who are.

Ever met someone from China? I have... many times. They have this bright sunny smile plastered all across their face, but they will also stab you in the back first chance they get. A few of my acquaintances have been Chinese and Taiwanese nationals who had turned their back on their culture, and they are my source. The rest? That smile is a showing of respect. It is considered disrespect to be frowned at, and a show of disrespect is to be met with force. To do otherwise is to accept defeat and inferior stature in society. Social stature is everything to them. So they smile at everyone they see, unless that person is inferior already and cannot do anything about it (or has nothing that one needs and cannot take). Then and only then can they be safely frowned upon.

None of our leaders seemed to understand this until Trump came along. Ever wonder why he praises Xi Jinpeng? Because to do otherwise, in their culture, is to personally challenge him! You can't make a deal with someone you have just personally challenged. Instead, previous administrations kept insulting their leaders on a personal level and those leaders set the policy for the entire country: shame the United States! And they did.

I consider it a mark of progress that someone hasn't started WWIII with China so far through their bumbling. In previous centuries, that would have been the result of our ineptitude.

As for protecting ourselves, we simply enforce our standards on what they send to us, how they deal with us, and let their culture develop as it will. If we show strength of resolve and a refusal to accept their attempts to subordinate us as a people, they will gain respect for our strength and relations will improve. We cannot change them (nor should we; the Chinese culture is very old and very rich), but we can change how we deal with them.

TheRedneck

What a complete ignorant thing to say! See, this is the type of mentallity that makes this world so messed up!

Why the hell do you have to put every chinese person in the same basket? You do realise that they are all individuals? Just like every person in America is an individual with their own personality.

Unbelievable!

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Advantage

Id LOVE to see more deals with Mexico, Central America, S America, Russia and Africa and removing dependence for goods and services on one hostile untrustworthy country.

Seriously dude! Stop bring a hypocrite! Hostile country? So a country invading other countries for their own agenda, responsible for thousands, if not millions of innocent deaths is not hostile? Is it only hostile when it's not your country doing these horrible things.

I guess it's ok to fund terrorists too and fund the disgusting war in Yemen!

Nah, that's not hostile, because it's your country doing these things, but as soon as another country does horrible things, people lime you are on their back!

It's called conditioned patrioism!

Im a dudette... and calm the hell down.

Maybe I dont consider many of our operations hostile. Maybe I consider some actions and operations hostile and some not. Still doesnt negate the idea that we can decentralize our dependencies on foreign countries and make them with less hostile and more reliable countries.

a reply to: Advantage

I know; I agree with you on that. I just used it as a segway into a rant about how we can't seem to figure out how to deal with different cultures.

I also agree that we need to start using other countries to source our needs and thus diversify. Why don't we help some of these poor African countries develop their rare earth capability? We did that with Saudi Arabia almost a century ago... turned them into one of the wealthiest countries in the region! And in return they have been a pretty staunch ally (the cultural differences there notwithstanding as well). It was Saudi Arabia, as head of OPEC, that implemented the petro dollar for us in the first place.

Mexico as well... we need better relations. We could be of so much help to them by taking out the drug cartels... that would benefit both countries. But they have to trust us, and so far we have shown them little reason to do so.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Jay-morris

So, that means it's ok what your government has done because it's not as "evil" as China's government? Is that what you are saying?

Go ahead show me where I said that Ill wait...

You love to complain that people put words in your mouth when that's pretty much all you do when you reply to anyone.

a reply to: Jay-morris

What a complete ignorant thing to say! See, this is the type of mentallity that makes this world so messed up!

Says the guy who has been making ignorant statements the whole thread...

Why the hell do you have to put every chinese person in the same basket? You do realise that they are all individuals? Just like every person in America is an individual with their own personality.

Of course they are individuals. But they are also a part of a culture. I don't consider any culture "better" or "worse" than any other, but I do understand there are differences. All I did was point out the cultural differences. Sorry if that bursts your fantasy bubble... not everyone on the planet thinks like you. As a matter of fact, only a small fraction of people on the planet think like you. Fortunately.... otherwise we would have killed off each other and gone extinct long ago.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Advantage

I know; I agree with you on that. I just used it as a segway into a rant about how we can't seem to figure out how to deal with different cultures.

I also agree that we need to start using other countries to source our needs and thus diversify. Why don't we help some of these poor African countries develop their rare earth capability? We did that with Saudi Arabia almost a century ago... turned them into one of the wealthiest countries in the region! And in return they have been a pretty staunch ally (the cultural differences there notwithstanding as well). It was Saudi Arabia, as head of OPEC, that implemented the petro dollar for us in the first place.

Mexico as well... we need better relations. We could be of so much help to them by taking out the drug cartels... that would benefit both countries. But they have to trust us, and so far we have shown them little reason to do so.

TheRedneck

Yeah, can you imagine how it would change N America if we worked more with Mexico and they had the power to deal with cartels THEMSELVES in their own way?? That would be amazing really. It would kill several birds with one lucrative stone. I see so many benefits with working with other countries rather than China.I think the idea of change freaks people out... and temporary adjustments in gobs of money and "incentives" from China.. ccp, actually... for individuals to keep their business coming there is why its going to take a while.