Trumps says US could sever all ties with China

Automation is making the slave labor model obsolete. It will take a few more decades but it's going to happen. Trump is correct though. We really don't need anything from China. We could do many things here right now without them including drugs. It would not take long at all with a mobilization effort similar to WWII. It would break China's back.

a reply to: bastion

not necessarily actually. Most these companies that use the labor, did so 40 years ago. With the advancement in Tech and IT, the reality is that if they were forced to relocate, and if given incentives, they could come back to the USA, build automated plants. It wouldn't necessarily increase the low positions in the USA but you would increase the 45K+ middle management positions.

If republicans won majority in the house and senate, this could be done in 4 years. Its possible, just not probable.

Camain

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
Yeah. I need medication to live and I can't go a day without it so in my eyes, this man is dangerous. As soon as a guy like Trump gets in there people like me have all the reason we need to vote against him. He's just irresponsible. If the relationship with China goes to #, how many people would suddenly be cut off from the meds that are keeping them alive?

For those of you who support him, I ask you to please come to your senses. This is not a game anymore. This is not funny anymore. Donald Trump is crazy.

I realize your plight, but what if this were Nazi Germany? Would you still be so adamant about keeping the relationship? I say this because the atrocities committed by the CCP are worse. Yes, worse. The are responsible for many tens of millions of deaths of their own and currently still use religious and political prisoners as a living organ bank. A high level CCP cadre needs a heart...they go to Masanjia or any number of PLA prison "hospitals" and go get your uncle to "donate" because he practices the wrong Christianity or Falun Gong or asked about democracy on WeChat. Google Chinese organ harvesting Falun Gong if you doubt it. The UN, the US congress, UK parliament etc. have all acknowledged it publicly. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Forget how they are handling the Covid thing.

I totally agree there is a real issue with the very immediate near term, but would we be doing business with Nazi Germany just because it would hurt a bit? It's not even a question, but why are we hiding behind excuses now?

Problems like yours need to be resolved as quickly as humanly possible and then cut ties with any company/entity that isn't willing to publicly disavow the CCP and any affiliation. If a they can do that, I say we can probably work something out on a case by case basis.

Should it happen yes, will it happen no because as some mentioned all the rich pricks making money off of essentially slave labor.

At a minimum what we should do is mandate for national security reasons X% of essential good be manufactured 100% in the states. If need be dangle a really nice tax incentive to the companies, dont care if its name brand or a startup because having something like medicine be almost entirely reliant on china is not in the best interest of the US.

a reply to: JAGStorm

We heard just about every one of your points or similar versions of them when the topic of tariffs or shortages for Covid 19 entered the game .

We came out of both all right .

There’s also a thing called preparation .

The U.S. government is planning to fund domestic rare earths projects in an attempt to reduce its reliance on China, the global leader of the specialized sector.

Snip

In an attempt to change that, the Pentagon last year said it would fund mines and processors via the Defense Production Act, which gives the military wide berth to procure certain equipment. U.S. President Donald Trump has recently considered using the same law to boost medical supply manufacturing.

You’ve got to stay a step ahead to win the game

Not to mention what do you think we’re in Afghanistan for ? It ain’t the liberate the oppressed .

originally posted by: dawnstar
Yep and china could call in all our debt they are holding, dump the treasury bonds they have...
I mean, wouldnt cutting all ties mean settling debts?
Lol.... ya, that ain't gonna happen..

What are they going to do about it if they did? It’s just numbers on a screen.

a reply to: 38181

Truthfully, I have no idea... I just know that we peons are supposed to worry about the nation's debt.. even though it doesnt really matter which party if in power, they dont really seem to care while the party that has found themselves the minoeity suddenly do..

One day, maybe the peons will realize that the economy has become nothing more than a scam and we will go back to cottage industry and bartering.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Hell of a switch to flip, good luck mass-producing the cheap electronic and electrical devices China supplies.

Im not quite sure how you are going to convince any potential workforce to graft for what amounts to peanuts with little to no health and safety in place.

The fact of the matter, we live in a global community, and America cannot do what China does, the people will simply revolt.

originally posted by: dawnstar
Yep and china could call in all our debt they are holding, dump the treasury bonds they have...
I mean, wouldnt cutting all ties mean settling debts?
Lol.... ya, that ain't gonna happen..

yep - covid could = all debt cancelled, come get it.

would be interesting actually, show up the farcical international pyramid scheme for what it is. as you say, ain't gonna happen

originally posted by: dawnstar
Yep and china could call in all our debt they are holding, dump the treasury bonds they have...
I mean, wouldnt cutting all ties mean settling debts?
Lol.... ya, that ain't gonna happen..

If they did that, the value of the dollar would plummet and they would be holding empty paper. They are caught between a rock and a hard place if they tried that and they know it.

a reply to: dawnstar

If China tried to call it all in, they would destroy their own economy as well as a good chunk of the world, and would in fact be begging to start WW3 because what option would be left besides try to take the precious metals they hold.

Their will be a breaking point with our debt, probably sooner rather than later.

But China has every bit as big a debt problem as we do, remember the party owns every major Chinese company so every penny of debt they have is govt debt.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Cant cut all ties as long as you have outstanding debt though..
Would be nice to actually have as much of the crap we need made here as we can though..
Actually, like we are now learning, it's a national security issue.
But, unless we are willing to settle the financial books with china, which we arent, we cant cut all ties... lol... heck no one has any intention of actually settling their debts unless its through bankruptcy!

"I’m actually all for this, but I know there is no way many of Trumps friends are. Here’s looking at you Hobby Lobby, Walmart, Target, Dollar Store etc. This is posturing at the highest level. Our economies are so intertwined it is not even funny. A swift stop would hurt Americans more than the Chinese"



Your right it would be painful for a bit, OR it could be the New Goal in the US to start factories, subsidize our own and become self sufficient. Bet it could be done within an administrations time. But what next President lib Democrat would sell us out ?.

a reply to: carewemust


We must sever ties with China for a while at least.

They have become one of the most evil nations on the face of the earth.

They keep detailed track of the menstrual cycles of every female in their country so they can drag pregnant women into forced abortion clinics screaming and crying begging to keep their babies.

They jail, disappear, kill anyone in their country who utters anything that might embarrass the elite, very rich, very powerful political class. What did that Dr. say? A serious virus? Not in our country, jail him, make him disappear, is the way they handle anyone who embarrasses the government, even with truth. Criticize the littlest, even true thing about the government and you are as as good as dead, even if you are joking, even if it is true and someone needs to know.

They HAVE enacted the "Black Mirror" style social credit system. They track every single citizen 24/7 through spying on their phones. If someone says anything the government doesn't like that person is not allowed to travel, get on a train or bus and may lose their job.

Their high rises have grating in open areas, not to keep people from falling, but because their suicide rate is so high, it is to prevent the populace from jumping to escape the wretched oppressed lives they live. These suicide barriers are most often found in factories that produce the shirts/pants/shoes/tech you whine about not having enough to choose from.

They pay the complete bill for students to come to the US as research assistants and the Universities don't have to pay the students anything for free labor. Meanwhile the Chinese students steal research, steal patents, steal intellectual property and give it to the Chinese government. This is a very openly known "secret". Ask any university with Chinese graduate students or tech company who hire Chinese nationals on VISA.

The Chinese have a very open long term plan to rule the world and to institute the same 24/7 tight control and surveillance over the entire world to rule it with an iron fist as tight as the one they have on their own citizens.

It is so bad that the Chinese populace has stopped having children, after the one child policy was lifted, they can't get people to have more children to increase the number of women. They are short tens of millions of females due to their own policies. The life in China is so oppressive, dark, and mean spirited that the people don't want to bring children into it. Even so they still drag pregnant women in for forced abortions because they failed to get permission from the government to get pregnant.

By law all schools must make children run for one hour per day. I was reading recently about a local Chinese government that decided their children were too soft and forced them to run 90 minutes a day, and quite a few children died as a result.

One Chinese man here on an intellectual visa told a friend when he returned from his annual forced visit to China, by the Chinese, not the US. That once he landed in the US he could finally breathe again without fear.

Who helped China become the surveillance monster of the public that it is now? The US tech industry, Google actually developed and gave them the technology. Google is now offering the exact same technology along with Apple to "keep track" of people who catch COVID 19 to isolate them and everyone they came into contact with. This is the beginning of the Black Mirror 24/7 Chinese style surveillance in the US, courtesy of mainly Google.

If we don't say no to the Chinese government now - well many of the elite like Google who are in the pocket of these monsters, and many elite politicians who are intrigued by the power and extreme wealth of the elite Chinese political class. Well, the US is headed directly into the path of becoming just like China, evil to the very core, treating citizens as little more than slaves to be whipped and killed at will.

Trying to put an end to this is worth having fewer pants and shoes to choose from for the short term!

Don't you think locking the entire nation into their homes; and the resultant enormous rise in child abuse; enormous rise in drug abuse and addiction; alcohol abuse and addiction; the largest rise in suicide from isolation to the point where in TN more died of suicide than COVID 19 one week; people dying preventable deaths from not going to the hospital; has all been totally and completely worth it to save less than 5% of those who caught COVID 19 (less than 0.01% of the entire US population) ?

If these humanitarian disasters and the human toll of lockdowns were worth it in your eyes,

then a few less consumer goods is worth stopping the most evil regime
on the entire planet right now who has no regard for human life
and relishes human misery as a way to control their slaves to the government.

If you think the humanitarian disaster and human toll
of US state Governor forced lockdowns has been and is acceptable,
then you turn around and complain
about not having enough shoes or shirts to choose from
to stop the most evil empire since the Nazi's?
Really, where are your priorities?

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: Bhadhidar

the reality he COULD and in the long term it would benefit the US

lets deal in basic facts....

the trade deficit with china was 5 BILLION plus
that means in simple terms for every dollar we get from china they get from us 5 times as much.
that alone in basic economics means any financial pain we suffer they do 5 times as much.
we can survive that but they cant.
who are they gonna sell in that quantity to?
no one country or group of countries could do that.

yes in short term we would have shortages of some goods and rare earth elements.
but we can AND HAVE recovered from greater.
it will take sacrifice, some compromises like if you want to build a manufacturing plant or mine rare earth minerals (yes we do have them) the overdrawn environmental procedures are gonna have to be streamlined and a determination to do so.

remember in less than two years we went from theoretical nuclear tech to building a MASSIVE facility that created the bomb .

no reason we cant do that type of effort again.

in the long term either we will become mostly self sufficient again, china will capitulate to keep our business (btw we were ALREADY ON THAT ROAD thanks to trump where decades of presidents failed/china flipped us the bird), or a combination of the both.

you mock his tactics but I presume thats because your thinking of political tactics vs business tactics.

something our country desperately needs and (much to his critics shock) was working before the corvid crisis.

in short we are the "sugar daddy" of china (both economically and tech) .
that is power we should stop being afraid to use

stop being afraid of loosing pennies when your being robbed of billions

scrounger

bold mine

A trade deficity of $5B wouldn't necessarily mean that - it could mean the US exports $500B to China, and China exports $505B to the US. However, your premise is correct, numbers are just off. It is actually roughly a 5:1 ratio.

I checked it out because it didn't seem possible the deficit was only $5B. Discovered its more like $450B (so, your ~5:1 ratio point is correct.)

Statista Website - US-China trade figures

In 2019, the total value of the U.S. trade in goods with China amounted to almost 559 billion U.S. dollars composed of a 106.6 billion U.S. dollar export value and a 452.2 billion U.S. dollar import value.

Manufacturing won't come back to the US. If China goes away, India, Mexico, Vietnam and other would handle the work.

Sure, there would be shortages but those would be corrected within one or two years. Prices might be slightly higher but nothing drastic. The dollar store would probably become the five dollar store.

But the important thing is we give China food - they give us cheap labor. Yeah, the can withhold short-term PPE and some medicine but the US can withstand that.

It's a little hard to do without food. China doesn't have the capability to feed their people with the land they have.

So yes, in a Trade War, the US would probably win but this will lead to a war - biological and technical - no the airplane and bomb type.

a reply to: JAGStorm

The problem with this or really any of his statements re China is how interconnected the pillars of US business are with China at this point. Is there any television media at all without Chinese money? Is there a Disney? Activision/Blizzard, EA, Valve or Epic games? Do pro sports teams have stadiums to play in? Do mega food/BigAG companies exist at all to service the nations food supply?

You can argue that all this stuff still happens without Chinese partnerships but as we saw with Covid19, our "economy" (lol, more central planning than the old USSR!) is so brittle it can't survive a week of disruption en masse. I have serious doubts it can survive a divorce with China.

In other words, it's all mouth-masturbation and word salad.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.businessinsider.com...

“There are many things we could do. We could cut off the whole relationship.”

I’m actually all for this, but I know there is no way many of Trumps friends are. Here’s looking at you Hobby Lobby, Walmart, Target, Dollar Store etc. This is posturing at the highest level. Our economies are so intertwined it is not even funny. A swift stop would hurt Americans more than the Chinese.

Right now China makes the bulk of the worlds shoes, seriously like 98%. Clothing..pfffft...Rare earth mineral, check! Like that cheap technology? I could go on and on. I am in no way saying we can’t bring these things back
Home, but it absolutely can’t be done in an instant. I don’t even think they would bring manufacturing home. It would probably go to Vietnam, Mexico, or maybe India. I hear India is getting pricey though.

Do you know right now the military can’t even get masks. We have local volunteer groups sewing for the military, police and first responders, they can’t keep up. Just imagine that, but with pretty much every product that makes up American life...

We had a thriving middle class before we decided to make everything overseas..

I say screw 'em. We don't need 95% of that crap. Bring the manufacturing and jobs back home.

Considering we are the main consumer market, China has far more to lose than we do. If we make it here we also buy it.

On the other hand, if we stop buying it, China has no one to sell too.

We have the upper hand.

If the middle class is destroyed, there will be much less demand for useless things.
It's ironic that the capitalist use cheap communist labour in the first place.

Changes have to be made, that much is clear.

We need to reorient what needs to be made domestically, those critical prodcuts in need.

We're the worlds greatest power, we have it in our capacity to do so, so what are we waiting for?