Trumps says US could sever all ties with China

a reply to: JAGStorm



Ummm...right you are...

Right up until you realize...of course...that companies have been moving their production facilities out of China...and into India...etc....Irregardless of COVID-19...or presidential order...(which already happened)...or the current trade war...

And that this pace is now accelerating...

Obviously there will be pain...for years...but also opportunity...for any entrepreneur to pick up slack...


China is toast...no matter how you look at it...they will be increasingly isolated...and this just in time...before...their military expansionism was allowed to fully mature to the point of assured confrontationalism...

So...I’m sure there will be some limited clash’s but they won’t last long...China fortunately doesn’t have the ability to project strength in any sizable way currently...And with their economic collapse...the infighting knives will consume a great deal of those capabilities...as they’re pointed inward...at populations of hundreds of millions of the oppressed...who will certainly attempt to ensure that the CCP falls...and crashes hard...

Not to mention the assistance that extra state actors will provide to those millions of oppressed...once that scenario kicks off...


But...that’s just my personal observation...and opinion...right...?









YouSir

originally posted by: rom12345
If the middle class is destroyed, there will be much less demand for useless things.
It's ironic that the capitalist use cheap communist labour in the first place.

Huh? There isn't anything ironic about Capitalist using cheap communist labor, the irony would stem from capitalist using cheap communist labor while complaining about China stripping Americans of jobs and eroding our middle class 🙃

a reply to: JAGStorm


Talk and talk.....why would Trump even care what happens to Americans in trade war with China? look around , US followed the script and put US in lockdown with Trump`s authority.

When they work as complicity with China, all their talks is just bs theater to satisfy common people .

I am starting to think Americans in generally have had too much fluoride in the drinking water. There was not need to destroy US economy, but Trump gived green light....and now he support vaccination etc and are not supporting US constitution ...


PS: sorry the rant ...i am just frustrated

a reply to: andy06shake

That’s exactly what I’m saying too something has to give.....
it will be...

Price of items
Cost of labor
Environmental impact
Reduction in household goods

Remember folks there is a reason greedy companies sold us out in the first place. You think they are going to be keen on bringing it back?

originally posted by: Daughter2
Manufacturing won't come back to the US. If China goes away, India, Mexico, Vietnam and other would handle the work.

Sure, there would be shortages but those would be corrected within one or two years. Prices might be slightly higher but nothing drastic. The dollar store would probably become the five dollar store.

But the important thing is we give China food - they give us cheap labor. Yeah, the can withhold short-term PPE and some medicine but the US can withstand that.

It's a little hard to do without food. China doesn't have the capability to feed their people with the land they have.

So yes, in a Trade War, the US would probably win but this will lead to a war - biological and technical - no the airplane and bomb type.

Ummm...yessir...

Right up until you consider that both of those things...are already occurring...both the manufacturing coming back to the US...and other countries supplying cheap labor...

As far as your no bomb statement...or airplanes...that’s just ludicrous...and unrealistic...

This COVID-19 debacle...was the final straw...for a whole range of countries...that normally do business with China...

The EU...is also accelerating...moving their manufacturing base out of China...




YouSir

Two things I have to add to this conversation...

First of all, no, we could not survive without China, at least not now. Those who are saying we could are fooling themselves. Maybe we could have if we had maintained "Buy American" back in the 1970s, but that train has left the station. 50 years of following a corrupt foreign trade policy designed to benefit politicians and placate weak-minded consumers will do that.

Now, can we get to a place where we can survive without China? Sure! but it won't happen overnight, any more than tests for a novel corona virus will spring into being before the first case is diagnosed. It will take time, and during that time we have to work diligently to make it happen. That means we have to actually accept that companies who make these things we are getting from China are good things and not some evil corporate plan to destroy all that is good and proper with human society.

After witnessing all that has happened in those 50 years, I'm sorry, I don't think Americans can do that any more. We're too soft. If we can twist up the supply chains for things like basic foods and toiletries over a virus that most people get without knowing they even have it... nope, we got no chance at surviving without China long enough to survive without China. Something about needing a very small camel and a very large needle.

Secondly, President Donald Trump did not say we were going to go China-less. He said we could. That's different than we will. A lot of things could happen... China could be hit with an earthquake of epic proportions and become one big sinkhole tomorrow. North Korea could launch nukes at us tomorrow and (based on what I have seen of their navigation technology) destroy China instead. I seriously doubt either of those will happen... I'm certainly not going to bet any money on either of them... but the truth is that they could.

And that goes back to my first point: if a simple statement used to make a point that we have a lot of options open to us can cause us to panic to this extent, how are we supposed to re-tool to actually make things again?

TheRedneck

a reply to: dantanna

would LOVE for things to say 'made in the usa'
because that would mean, jobs for americans, hell, if they stopped all china trade, that would mean jobs for americans and even all the ILLLEGALS that are in the country even.

There are so many people who do not even know how this works. Yeah, bring all the jobs back to the USA. Is the average American going to work 12 hour shifts, seven days a week for pennies? If course not!

What does that mean? Prices will sky rocket, and people would not be able to afford them. After that, watch millions of companies crumble because they cannot sell tbeir products.

America and the West need China just as much as China needs them.

a reply to: Alien Abduct

The OP has something right, it would hurt the U.S. However his insight is shortsighted.

It would only hurt the U.S. in the short term. In the long run it would pan out as you say...more jobs, manufacturing and self reliance on the part of the U.S. which we all have learned in high-school economics that keeping your money circulation local for the most part only serves to bolster our local economy and therefore makes it stronger.

We shouldn't rely on any one country as much as we do China. Our reliance should be spread out among many countries very akin to a diversified stock portfolio.

If there were much more jobs here (which there would be in this scenario), the pay rates would go up by themselves, no need for a forced $15/hr minimum wage. Cut back on imported cheap labor which only serves to benefit corporations and large companies as opposed to the working class and stifle the massive flood of illegal immigration and control it to the trickle that we need it to be at mainly by enforcement of heavy penalties upon companies that hire illegals and we can make this happen.

The sad truth is that 95% of politicians are in bed with the wealthy corporations and insurance companies. These powerful and rich companies "lobby" (pay off legally) the politicians in exchange for them to pass laws in the corporation's favor, such as tax breaks, allowing to import cheap labor from over seas, forced mandatory laws that are not in the interest of the public but yet only save the corporations/insurance companies billions such as mandatory seat belts.

A few good ideas to help stifle this predatory, greedy, anti-American, anti-freedom anti-republic actions by our elected officials is to mandate term limits and make lobbying illegal.

Being an elected official was always meant to be a temporary thing. Its supposed to be just another way to serve this country such as in a military service. When you add together greedy men in powerful positions that can vote for their own pay, vote for their own free health care for life including free dental, free life insurance, three weeks vacation, unlimited sick days, who knows how many paid holidays, and then also vote for no term limits you get the equivalent of corruption!

Wow! Would it be great if it was as easy as that. Do you know how many business alone in America rely on getting their stuff made or from China? Millions! I am not just talking about big businesses, I am also talking about small businesses.

These companies, esp the small ones would not survive! The country would crumble in a matter of months. That is the truth if the matter.

a reply to: TheRedneck

After witnessing all that has happened in those 50 years, I'm sorry, I don't think Americans can do that any more. We're too soft

Yup, that’s what I’m saying. People in the US are addicted to cheap goods. Hobby Lobby is a perfect example. Almost all made in China subpar products, yet people love it. They can’t enough of Hobby Lobby. It is so bad people were arguing here that Hobby Lobby should be essential during quarantine.....Hobby Lobby...

a reply to: JAGStorm

It's not just cheap goods.

Are you aware that it is simply not possible to buy a TV that is assembled in America now? Forget the circuitry inside it... there are no American TV manufacturers. That computer you're typing on? Take the cover off and have a look under the hood. Those little black boxes? Made of ceramics or plastics in China. The chips inside those little black boxes? China. The circuit board? Made in China and etched in China. The case? Made in China from materials produced in China. The DVD drive? China. The hard drive? China. Even if you could find a computer that said "Made in USA" on it, all that means is it was assembled in the USA from parts made almost exclusively in China.

Cars? Many are made in the USA... from parts manufactured in China from materials produced in China. The USA just assembles them... we have robots that can put tab A into slot B (in large part because we can't get anyone here to both understand how to put tab A into slot B and who is willing to do it for less than $25 an hour and 6 weeks paid vacation every month. We're too "good" for that kind of menial labor).

Appliances? China.

Medical? China.

Our supply chain on almost everything we use day to day is based on Chinese products, even if we try everything in our power to only buy American products. That's what 50 years of corruption will get ya. Even you, although you have stated differently, would probably be unable to fully function without Chinese goods. That's not a condemnation, just a statement of fact. We are all dependent on China, and there's only so much we can do to avoid such dependency.

And worse, when someone does finally start the ball rolling in the right direction, every syllable that comes out of his mouth is publicly scrutinized within an inch of its life... every possible connotation examined, every sound in that syllable analyzed, inflection dissected, and tone scrutinized. Then the worst possible combination is re-assembled and used to demonize him... and this is all being spoon fed to us because he's the one trying to free us from dependency on China!

That's what this whole thread is about, isn't it? "We could do a lot of things with China. We could shut them off completely" = "OMG! The crazy man is going to shut off all trade with China!"

TheRedneck

a reply to: JAGStorm

I think there is no normal to go back to.

The world had turned and change is in the air.

The bankers and corporations have had us by the short and curlies since long before any of us were a twinkle in our daddies eye, i don't see them being up for letting go anytime soon if im honest, COVID or no COVID.

We all wanted a paradigm shift all the same, for better or worse that seems to be in the post with the change.

Im for it because China does so many immoral things (althought the u.s. does too). But it would definitely hurt the economy badly.

Prepare for $2000 iphones and $1000 xboxs. Unless u.s. companies can find other areas for slave labor quickly.

U.S. should also cut ties with saudi arabia. And any other human right's abuser.

Trump is no moralist, so not sure where his strategy is going. Or if he even has one.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Very true. U.S. companies export their slave labor to china to provide cheap products. What a sh!tty world we live in where slavery is still happening financially and literally.

The u.s. supports both. I guess empires can't have morals or ethics.

a reply to: dawnstar

Sure you can... its not like cutting ties with a bookie you owe money to, they cant send their army to collect.

But it wouldn't make sense to pull the plug all at once like I said mandate X% of essential goods be 100% made in the US so we can never be threatened by we wont let meds ship to your nation again.

Show that companies can make a profit operating inside the US on a large scale and companies will come back on their own after the mandated percentage.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: dantanna

would LOVE for things to say 'made in the usa'
because that would mean, jobs for americans, hell, if they stopped all china trade, that would mean jobs for americans and even all the ILLLEGALS that are in the country even.

There are so many people who do not even know how this works. Yeah, bring all the jobs back to the USA. Is the average American going to work 12 hour shifts, seven days a week for pennies? If course not!

What does that mean? Prices will sky rocket, and people would not be able to afford them. After that, watch millions of companies crumble because they cannot sell tbeir products.

America and the West need China just as much as China needs them.

Prices would go up but people would also re-evaluate their needs vs wants.

Remember when gas prices were $5.00/gallon? All of a sudden every suburban dad decided they really didn't need a lifted f-150 to go to Home Depot twice a year that gets 10 miles to the gallon. Maybe the smaller sedan for 9 to 5 commuting made more sense.

What will happen is people say "gee, maybe I don't need a pair of Jordans when the New Balance or converse will do." Gee, maybe my kid doesn't actually need a bunch of plastic toys. Instead of a disposable appliance, maybe I'll buy the higher quality one that will last longer.

a reply to: scrounger

Not saying I agree or disagree with your post.

But just because america has a trade deficit with China doesn’t mean companies aren’t selling the materials purchased from China at a much higher cost than purchased, so the resale value could be and often is worth more than the deficit.

So your math might be correct on the deficit but that doesn’t make it a bad deal in the long run.

a reply to: TheRedneck

It won't happen over night for the reasons you state, but it can happen.

Consumers, business, and government have to work together... (Yeah, probably a pipe dream).

Consumers have to accept that cheapest is not the best and be willing to pay a premium for made in the USA. Consumers have to vote with their dollars and show companies they are willing put made in America before price.

Businesses have to think beyond shareholder return and short term gains. They have to understand their brand equity depends on putting America first.

Government has to create an environment that rewards businesses for putting America first with low taxes and a friendly regulatory environment. We have to use policy to encourage our companies to manufacture stateside.

a reply to: Edumakated

Prices would go up but people would also re-evaluate their needs vs wants.

Think you under estimate what is made in China. We live in a material world. You are not going to change people and how they buy and how they like to spend their money.

Remember when gas prices were $5.00/gallon? All of a sudden every suburban dad decided they really didn't need a lifted f-150 to go to Home Depot twice a year that gets 10 miles to the gallon. Maybe the smaller sedan for 9 to 5 commuting made more sense.

This is what you do not seem to understand. Prices would not just go up a little bit, they would sky rocket. Unless, like I said, the average American is going to work 7 days a week, 12 hour shifts for pennies. Not going to happen.

What will happen is people say "gee, maybe I don't need a pair of Jordans when the New Balance or converse will do." Gee, maybe my kid doesn't actually need a bunch of plastic toys. Instead of a disposable appliance, maybe I'll buy the higher quality one that will last longer.

That is wishful thinking. People are not going to stop buying products, and most people want the cheapest products.

If Americans stop buying products made in China, you are only damaging your own economy because millions of American companies have their products made, or are from china.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Honestly would it hurt to go without Chinese goods for a while until American companies could gear up to take over? Probably not. Pretty much everything we get from there used to be made here. When we started buying those things from China we lost the jobs here that were formerly connected to those things.

Phones, TVs, etc.? Would it really hurt us to go a year or two without the latest toy? Clothes and shoes? Try going to resale/consignment shops- half the stuff there is brand new with original tags still on them that people buy and never wear. Masks? We're already having to make our own, so what is the difference?

We are just so addicted to the "gotta have the latest thing right now" mentality that it SEEMS we can't do without goods from China but we did for a very long time- and we can again!

a reply to: Edumakated

It won't happen over night for the reasons you state, but it can happen.

Yeah first millions of American companies would crumble, and would throw America, and the world into another economy collapse. But hey, as long as we stop buying from the nasty chinese, then that's ok!