WW 3 how about we try to prevent it ?

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: Jay-morris

Are you being serious? You spent most prob all day going through my past posts

Nope it only took a few minutes. I’ll prove it then you can move off to another lie.

, only to basically prove that my stance has not changed. Yes I have spoken about this in other threads.

You’re a child who makes excuses instead of owning up like an adult. I said you’re obsessed with the topic especially concerning America. And I Beyond any doubt to anyone reading this but you.

Do what? We are on a forum, and this is what we tend to do on forums.

Not obsessively and continually on one particular country foreight years. Then make the exact same excuse it’s the government not the people. You’ve said that several times. In fact you say the same thing every time and it’s intellectually dishonest you know what the true context was. People have told you this repeatedly and your explanation is everybody else is confused not you. 🤦‍♂️

OK it’s the government it still doesn’t change that you’re obsessed and you brought your obsession onto my thread and wrecked it.

You said I hated America. Why did you say that? Because I do not like your government.

Look up evocation fallacy you obviously don’t understand what it means.

I hate the Chinese Government. Does that mean I have to hate China too?

That’s another lie you made on this thread .You defended China.

Page 1

Why is it that people look at China as aggressors

Page 1

It's all well and good thinking China wants to take over the world (which is rubbish) but you have to remember, that America has bases pretty much surrounding China, and has done for years.

I am sorry you had to go through all my posts, only to prove absolutly nothing.

There something you might not be aware of. There’s this thing called search. It makes it easy to catch posers.

Watch.....

That’s the first two pages . 😂

I’m beginning to think you’re a robot. It’s hard to believe any human being would still be lying after being so badly humiliated.

Do you want to talk about how to prevent World War III or are you going to continue to play the game you played for years here too. With basically the exact same words.

As long as you keep repeating the arguments I’ve already got the posts. 😂

a reply to: Fallingdown

lolol what is your point, I mean seriously? My history only proves what I have been saying for years. Anyone, not just you can look at My history, so seriously, what is your point.

If you do not like the fact that I do not like your government, then just say it without the lies and pointless replies thst prove my point and not yours. Why do you think no one has backed you up on this in your own thread? Because they see how obsessive you are at being right, to the point that you will blatantly lie.

Not good at all!

a reply to: Jay-morris

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You want to destroy the world again just so America can be number one?

And you wonder why Non American's judge you guys so hard, and air planes are flown into your buildings.

How about, working out a solution without resorting to war?

War should be our last choice and resort, but if it becomes evident that China released this virus on purpose and with malicious intent, the war has already started and they fired the first shot. And not just against us (the US) but the whole world. If its the case they cannot be allowed to get away with it. We didn't start it but we are fully capable of finishing it. I would prefer that be accomplished with economic sanctions and isolation than killing innocent people. But if they are engaged in biowarfare attacks they run the risk of total destruction.

a reply to: openminded2011

China released this on purpose? Got any evidence? Are you a virologist?

You do know its very easy to detect a bioweapon or a virus that has been manipulated right?
If that was the case then your own damn governments are lying to you, not china.

Also what good is a bioweapon that has killed a drop in the bucket in terms of people on earth?

originally posted by: openminded2011

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You want to destroy the world again just so America can be number one?

And you wonder why Non American's judge you guys so hard, and air planes are flown into your buildings.

How about, working out a solution without resorting to war?

But if they are engaged in biowarfare attacks they run the risk of total destruction.

They have ICBM's too - lots of them. That "Total Destruction" will be mutual and non discriminating.

a reply to: openminded2011

I thought I answered this already but I must not have pushed send.

but if it becomes abundantly evident that China released this virus on purpose and with malicious intent,

I think that helps clarify the intent of your post .

I would prefer that be accomplished with economic sanctions and isolation than killing innocent people.

Me too and no one would jump to nuclear weapons over this issue IMO. I already replied in a loooong post with my reasoning on that.

From my point of view today’s scenario Is eerily similar to 80 years ago. Something with the force of a oil embargo would probably bring China crawling hat in hand after a year or so . But it might not and a oil embargo is what started the war in the Pacific within five months 80 + years ago.

But if they are engaged in biowarfare attacks they run the risk of total destruction.

That is the key to your post as I see it .

Multiple attacks that’s the scariest part of this .

If China could release even a small bio weapon on the world with complete indifference . The world has become a far more dangerous place to live in than one with the threat of nuclear weapons .

Say something similar to The Stand’s “Captain Tripps” ( hypothetical example ) . Something with a 90% transmission 99% fatality rate would kill billions with a B. With little damage to the worlds infrastructure .

To win a country of China’s size would only need to inoculate 10 maybe 20% of their population . Then we’d wish nukes were popping off in downtown New York City.

Fortunately China or anyone else for that matter. Who has those capabilities doesn’t want to inherit a chared cinder or a place that smells like a dollar whore house next to the fishmarket in Mogadishu .

The sanctions couldn’t be to severe and any war should be avoided if at all possible .

So I’m still stuck on my solution. Most of the world has been obeying and taking a knee to china and their wishes .

Which pleases China it shows subjugation.

Recognizing Taiwan would basically be saying we’re not gonna take your # anymore .

If I was Xi I would be wondering what is with the sudden change .

What capability does my opponent have that he didn’t have before ?

I tagged everyone in in the hopes of getting a meaningful discussion going again.

a reply to: PublicOpinion


a reply to: strongfp

a reply to: harold223

a reply to: Fallingdown

I thought I answered this already but I must not have pushed send. 

So where's the meme .

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Lol

Did you follow that whole “ Conversation “. 🤦‍♂️

a reply to: Fallingdown

That's why I asked you where was the meme

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I’ve got a stubborn streak in me .

It was pretty funny .

I didn’t read his whole first post originally because I knew where it was going. Then I admitted it, then I apologized, then I agree with him. None of that matters . I did make a huge mistake on this thread . Answering the first post . Lol

The persistency left me with one option .

Incoming meme/gif.....

I guess where I stand on this. If you could prove that China, without a shadow of a doubt, released a bio weapon on the world, there would need to be a response. A military response would be horrendously dangerous, and should be an absolute last resort - the stakes would be extremely high. Widespread, unanimous economic sanctions and boycotts would be the first port of call and would hurt China severely.

I don't believe that Covid-19 is a bio-weapon and there is no evidence that it is. I don't think it would have been within China's interests to do so regardless. It is hurting them just as much as it is hurting us right now and I think they got blind-sighted by it just the same as we were. Their economy has shrunk for the first time since 1992 this quarter (own goal much?). They are very comfortable and getting very wealthy producing things for western consumers and still have a long way to go building up the life-styles of their middle classes, which are growing in size and wealth at an increasing rate (at least they were). China wants a prosperous, consumerist west to buy its stuff - it needs it in fact. China wants more influence in its region, no doubt, but I don't believe they have any desire to attack the west. China wants the west to stay out of its immediate region, (South China Sea, Indochina, Phillipenes), and obviously has its sights on Taiwan. China likely knows that attacking the west would be counterproductive for its own prosperity.

The purpose of ATS is to deny ignorance. Nobody is proud of America and it’s interest in oil and overt involvement in world affairs.

Yet the world also leans heavily on America to play a police role in the world, it is always there to aid the free world. All the western worlds use America to fight their military battles, their own military’s pale in comparison. It’s why our military budget is so high, we are their military too. It’s why they just grumble at America’s past aggressions. The countries America was aggressive in, also were not innocent. Do you remember the terrorist attacks, al-quada, the Taliban, and later isis? These countries did not stop their chaos and harbored them as they lashed out at the western world. While America acted in self interest, it was also actually bringing peace and freedoms enjoyed here in the US to the Middle East.

You’ve taken some stance on defending China, who is increasingly looking like they’ve intentionally caused our global pandemic, and has never had anything but self interest and a long history of inhuman action against its enemies and own people.

America ain’t perfect, but they aren’t the bad guys.

a reply to: Jay-morris

A lot of respected folks in the virology world seem to think so.

The reasons to defend China are pretty paper thin here.
are you of the mind it was just an accident, they didn’t have any “intent” to release it?

a reply to: strongfp

a reply to: Rob808

Sorry, but I do not agree. The west had full intention of invading Iraq way before 8/11. And you really think they done it out of the goodness of their hearts? Of course they did not. We left Iraq a hell hole, with thousands of innocent people dying. And of course, this gave rise to ISIS. Also, out of all those thousands of innocent people who died, how many family members, wanted revenge on the West because they list their loved ones? It's like a vicious cycle that never bloody ends.

And how about Libya, and the mess we left their? You think we had a hand in that people we wanted to free the people? They Killed Gaddafi to Stop Libyan Creation of Gold-Backed Currency.

And how about how we are helping Yemen?

These invasions and us aiding certain countries is nothing to do with helping the people of these countries. One thing is for sure though, millions of innocent people have lost their lives due to these invasions and conflicts.

Like I said, this is not about which government is worst, but knowing what your own government has done, including my own.

a reply to: Rob808

Most pandemic virus' we have no idea where they started, or we can pin point almost exactly where they started.
In this case, China has a very strong grasp on where it came from, a Seafood market in Wuhan, but, there's one problem, people who weren't even living near the market or visited it had it.
But since the worldwide response was rather rapid to piece apart the virus and attach it to vaccine molecules, it was determined that A: It wasn't a bio-weapon, and B: It's very unlikely it escaped from a lab.

But when you look at the history of these sort of things, it can and has happened in the past. But this is a strikingly similar virus to SARS - Cov and MERS - Cov, which didn't come from a lab. The funny part is bats are usually the go to for any sort of novel Coronavirus, in the case of the 2004 SARS case, it most likely was, and MERS case it was camels.

If this was intentionally released, what would be the purpose of doing so? What's in it for China?
They have a lot more to lose if they did, and it wouldn't make sense to release it on your own people and collapse your own economy.

a reply to: Fallingdown

So I’m still stuck on my solution. Most of the world has been obeying and taking a knee to china and their wishes .

Which pleases China it shows subjugation.

Recognizing Taiwan would basically be saying we’re not gonna take your # anymore

Recognizing Taiwan should be a global effort, but it pretty much has already happened. Don't they have embassy's all over the world? I've been to one in Toronto. But I do not think it will have any sort of effect on China.
As you said, China seems to be or appear to be, putting themselves on a pedestal, but then again, what do you think they will feel like when every greedy capitalist on the planet runs to them to make them rich?

The biggest awakening would be to take industry elsewhere, but even at that, I think they have thought three steps ahead, and hence why they are building a new silk road. You have to remember, during the slave trade, and the silk road, the money was made in the transportation of goods and people, bankers and insurance profited the most. China wants to secure the supply lines.

a reply to: harold223

One thing I haven’t heard mention is.

Would a global recession help them in the tariff battle or give the US a chance to take over the manufacturing ?

a reply to: strongfp

I agree completely it should be a global . It’s probably one thing the world would get behind. Do European nations most be forced to .

That alone would affect China greatly. Like you said they are capitalist i’ve even got a nickname I like Capitalommunist . Removing every customer they have would not only irritate the hell out of them . But it’s hard to project force when you have over 1 billion angry citizens that become accustom to Western comforts.

Fielding a 50 million man army would cause a lot of empty bellies . That’s the quickest way to revolution. “” let them eat cake “ for hundreds of years exit State no to “ keep them fat and happy.

There’s two ways to look at that. The Western world wouldn’t want to do that to the Chinese citizens and the Chinese goverment sure as hell doesn’t want it to happen .

You brought up the silk road and that’s a good comparison.

But remember the silk road was built through conquest .

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: openminded2011

China released this on purpose? Got any evidence? Are you a virologist?

You do know its very easy to detect a bioweapon or a virus that has been manipulated right?
If that was the case then your own damn governments are lying to you, not china.

Also what good is a bioweapon that has killed a drop in the bucket in terms of people on earth?

Are YOU a virologist? Actually there are labs stating that it does bear some of the signatures of a hybrid/modified virus.
www.dailymail.co.uk...
Its use is not in killing massive amounts of people, its use is in decimating economies which it has done.