The Absolute Power of Christianity!

I love God, and have a great understanding of what it is too me! I just wish I could find a place that is not a cult, or a place I could go to share my feelings with others, helping family members out and doing things in life that make it better for us all, not just the preists or churches... But I still have yet to find a place like that unless its my own room..

I dont see what is so hard to understand about this God stuff!! Its not a choice when someone offers a bribe on one side, and torture on the other!
Thats what it boils down too!!! SO stop sugar coating it!!
Everyone that belives in God, please tell me, if my God is not the God you see in your mind then I go to hell right? right?
Right!! Ive been to many churches, and they say, "If you dont belive in our God, you go to hell."
Simple stuff there... So you guys are going to sit here and spin around what I say.. If I belive in a doornob as my higher power then if it suits me what is the problem.. Well you would say, a doornob is silly and its not a God, and your going to hell for mocking and scoffing him!!
No a doornob as my God is just as silly to me as your God.. See?
So my God is a doornob, and is that going to get me into heaven?

Or must we play this game, and say that God gave you the choice! Take it or leave it.. Dont play that with me, its not going to work.
Also dont play that I dont have a real God, when your thoughts are just as silly to me!
And agin dont play it off as I am working for the devil either, I dont belive in your God, or his Satan.. And if God knows everything! Why did he allow Lucifer to become so jealous, you would have thought he would sit down and talk with him.. No that shows me that is there is evil, the churches and the your Masters are the ones at the ROOT of the evil!!!

Your preist Masters say this and that to me all the time, and tell me how I will burn in hell... How many times must I say this, burning in hell to living in the nice clouds is not a choice!! Its not a choice when your being bribed on one side, and torture on the other side.. Sorry guys, I dont mean to knock your faiths, but someone needs to come along and test your true feelings on the matter..

My God is not your God.. Thus if I went to your church and said that to your preacher, what do you think he will say?

He will sertinly say, I want to save you with the power of Jesus christ and save you from hell..
LOL I know Ive been threw church all my life, and was highly abused by the church and the wicked preists who like little boys.. So dont even try to tell me church is a holy place, when what I remember of church is truely hell on earth.. Peace!

I had to rephrase what I said, I dont blame God for what I say, I blame the churches and the people in charge!!

God is nothing like power-hungry, money grubbing leaders in many parts of the world! These people will be dealt with (God promises)Child molesters are the sneakiest, lying, most self absorbed people I have ever observed and Jesus/God said "it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones" Luke 17. New converts fall under that category,too.(little ones)
But Jesus has some good leaders too, who follow his word, the bible! Thank God! Pray to Jesus,look to him but also look for a simple church that teaches his word, not opinions!

To me, a lot of Christians and Atheists are alike. You ask simple questions and both quickly take offense or start turning purple when they can't come up with answers.

Egos get hungry.

Church: A part of the Absolute Power of Christianity

I'm not speaking about all churches, but rather the Church. That is those who believe in Christ as God's one and only son. Amazingly enough, you can find a lot of the Church in churches.

Originally posted by zysin5
Everyone that belives in God, please tell me, if my God is not the God you see in your mind then I go to hell right? right?

Not right. As Paul has explained:

"I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." - 1 Corinthians 1:10-17

Originally posted by zysin5
Right!! Ive been to many churches, and they say, "If you dont belive in our God, you go to hell."

Are you John 3:16? If yes, you follow the same God, if not then no you do not. Not sure where the confusion is.

Originally posted by zysin5
Simple stuff there... So you guys are going to sit here and spin around what I say.. If I belive in a doornob as my higher power then if it suits me what is the problem.. Well you would say, a doornob is silly and its not a God, and your going to hell for mocking and scoffing him!!
No a doornob as my God is just as silly to me as your God.. See?

I don't, sorry.

Originally posted by zysin5
So my God is a doornob, and is that going to get me into heaven?

No, your god being a doornob is not enough according to the Christian faith. See John 3:16 question.

Originally posted by zysin5
Or must we play this game, and say that God gave you the choice! Take it or leave it.. Dont play that with me, its not going to work.
Also dont play that I dont have a real God, when your thoughts are just as silly to me!
And agin dont play it off as I am working for the devil either, I dont belive in your God, or his Satan.. And if God knows everything! Why did he allow Lucifer to become so jealous, you would have thought he would sit down and talk with him..

Answers are in the Book. They do in fact have discussions. If you're really interested, send me a message and we can go into details.

Originally posted by zysin5
No that shows me that is there is evil, the churches and the your Masters are the ones at the ROOT of the evil!!!

Christian churches are to tell you to pray to God and seek Him out. How then could they be someone's master?

Originally posted by zysin5
Your preist Masters say this and that to me all the time, and tell me how I will burn in hell... How many times must I say this, burning in hell to living in the nice clouds is not a choice!! Its not a choice when your being bribed on one side, and torture on the other side.. Sorry guys, I dont mean to knock your faiths, but someone needs to come along and test your true feelings on the matter..

I don't mind, I enjoy talking about it.

Originally posted by zysin5
My God is not your God..

That is your choice...but I thought you said we don't have a choice

Originally posted by zysin5
Thus if I went to your church and said that to your preacher, what do you think he will say?

Try it. Or, ask me. Either or both. Ask God too, that's more important than what any of us people have to say.

Originally posted by zysin5
He will sertinly say, I want to save you with the power of Jesus christ and save you from hell..

I'm sure he does, but he cannot save you just as I cannot save you. You would have to ask God to save you. That's something that only He can do.

Originally posted by zysin5
LOL I know Ive been threw church all my life, and was highly abused by the church and the wicked preists who like little boys..

How many priests did you personally know who were wicked and liked little boys? I'd be interested in knowing how they were wicked and if they were ever brought up on charges for crimes against little boys.

Originally posted by zysin5
So dont even try to tell me church is a holy place, when what I remember of church is truely hell on earth.. Peace!

I'm sorry it was not what you'd hoped for. I do believe churches should do their best to help.

Originally posted by zysin5
I had to rephrase what I said, I dont blame God for what I say, I blame the churches and the people in charge!!

Then by all means go straight to God. That's what churches and people in charge there want you to do in the first place.

[edit on 30-7-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Greys Anatomy
To me, a lot of Christians and Atheists are alike. You ask simple questions and both quickly take offense or start turning purple when they can't come up with answers.

Egos get hungry.

As Christians we're instructed not to become offended:

"An offended brother is more unyielding than a fortified city, and disputes are like the barred gates of a citadel." - Proverbs 18:19

"Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." - Proverbs 16:18

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

[edit on 30-7-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
it says that you're only saved by doing good works...then it says that you're only saved by faith...then it says you're only judged by your deeds...

Ephesians 2:[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It is by faith alone in Christ.

Hello saint4God, Thank you for taking the time out to reply to what I said, you put it to me there pretty straight without to many faith like tatics.
The whole deal here is I dont want to have to quote a bible to look for my answers. Your pretty good at bible quoting there your posts, which if that works for you fine. But not me, and thats one of the main issues between people like us is we dont like eachothers ways brought to the table.
I call it like I see it, and when church didnt work for me, and works for you I guess we just have to live with that, and not try to change it.
But I dont like the threat of saying Im going to hell.
I dont like how churchs work Tax Free, and list goes on and on of things I dont like.
Its all about the churches and the peopel with the money. Not the people like you who have a good heart, and see church as a way to be with friends and family, helping everyone out. But at the top its courpted. And my friend that to me is evil. So am I too fight aginst the evil I see? Everyone fights for something, but I just dont see winning aginst those evils fighting with people who are just being duped brother.
My God knows we dont need church and these rich preists and their fancy cars, Im telling you!! God doesnt need me to go and kill anyone in his name or hurt anyone, God to me is the power to know right from wrong.
This universe is to grand for someone as small as me to know anything other than right or wrong..
So I feel what I belive Is right, and I wont find that in a church. But with my family and friends, and those I can talk to about in this world.
Dont try to save us saint4God when you might need to look at yourself and the people you support at the TOP..
Your a good heart and this isnt directed at you personally.
See we are both trying to save eachother!! hehe crazy world..



[edit on 063131p://3619 by zysin5]

here are your 'miracles' and here is your absolute power of christianity..

video.google.com...

[edit on 1-8-2007 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by dbrandt
Ephesians 2:[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It is by faith alone in Christ.

and throughout the bible it also says that god merely judges each according to their deeds. it's contradictory.

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy
I don't know if it's covering up the truth or rather simply ignoring it.

I think the problem may lie is that people both Christians and non-Christians can tell the difference between Christianity the faith and Christianity the religion.

Christianity the faith teaches to love one another, help your fellow man, serve others, turn the other cheek, etc.

Christianity the religion perverts the message of the faith. Religions and religious leaders like to pick and choose which doctrine to follow and how to "adapt" (re: interpret) those doctrines to fit within their lifestyle and the lifestyle of congregation.

It seems lately that the religious leaders and the psuedo-religious leaders (aka the political far right) is taking two steps backwards by forcing their policies (doctrines) upon the congregations and turning it into a political movement. At the same time, congregations are giving these leaders a great deal of power and influence and thus is it anyone's surprise that they become corrupt at some point?

There's nothing in the Bible that says that Christians are to be the voice of public policy. To me, it's akin to laziness. If everybody has to follow the same rules (doctrines), then the congregations don't have to make an effort to get out into the community and actually help those in need.

Personally, I don't see what the issue with the Ten Commandments being on display. I guess people don't like being told what to do. Most of the commandments deal with how we are to interact with our fellow man. Gasp - we are to respect them. How horrible it must be to respect others.

Love for yourself and your fellow man is the true gist of Christianity, but it's not practiced and even rarely preached. In the last 10+ years I have heard maybe five or six sermons dealing with the attributions of Christ's words in the Bible. Christ has always said, "if you love me, you would follow me." To follow Christ would require people to actually to do the things that are part of the Christian faith and not necessarily part of the Christian religion if it contradicts the faith.

Thus, the conspiracy may not be to cover up the truth of the Christianity faith, but rather ignore the part about Christ's true teachings and push the social and political agendas of those that subscribe to the Christianity religion and use it like a tool to serve their own means.

The early Catholic Church did that quite effectively and now anyone who claims to be a Christian, but do not follow the Christian faith, will believe when someone had the credential of being "religious" and thus, must be telling the truth.

Monkeyboy, this is exactly what I have been saying.
And the problem is, the power of the Catholic/Christian church system is wrapped up in politics, banking, etc.
They have much more control than anyone realizes. How do you think they got tax exemption?

Isn't the theory of taxing designed so the the masses can help the masses. Everyone chipping in, so that we have roads, infrastructure, etc. So how is it that they get away with paying no taxes. Earn your own bread, the bible says.

And Jesus taught a completely different message,
than what the "church people" are doing and teaching.

In fact, the whole concept of an enclosed, exclusive place of worship is exactly opposite of what Jesus did, which was to teach out in the open
healing the masses, and giving hope, bringing them closer to God.

He had a following of 5000 in those days. Would have had to been a big church. Imagine, 5000 people listening to his message, seeing the miracle of the fish multiplying, and not one of them stood up for him at the cross.
The step into true faith is a very difficult one, but once your there, you realize it's much easier, with than without.

Jesus, wanted us to worship God, by doing His walk. If we love God, we love Jesus, Ghandi. John Lennon. Any one that has tried to bring peace to mankind, instead of war.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by dbrandt
Ephesians 2:[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It is by faith alone in Christ.

and throughout the bible it also says that god merely judges each according to their deeds. it's contradictory.

I know what you are talking about but this is how you find out which is the truth. Read and study the Bible as much as you can also listening to real christian teachers of it.

Then you find out it is by faith alone in Jesus Christ.

The verses that "seem" to lean toward works are nullified when you realize it's by faith alone. So now with that stuck in your brain and spirit you can delve into what these other verses are saying.

For the saved person your works are because you are saved, not to be saved, and when done for the right motive will be rewarded. And works, not pure/true/for the wrong motive, and sins performed after salvation lead to loss of reward in eternity and difficulties in the present time, but not loss of salvation.

For the unsaved person, yes an unsaved person can do a good work, but salvation is through faith in Christ alone. The good works performed do help others, but do not earn any portion or degree of salvation. Also sins done by the unsaved will follow them to hell and will increase the torment in hell that that person experiences.

Originally posted by dbrandt
Also sins done by the unsaved will follow them to hell and will increase the torment in hell that that person experiences.

Do you realise how child-like this sounds? It's like you're telling us a fairytale on-par with Santa Claus. It's quite ridiculous. You can't see it because you're so far in. From the outside it's very clear though.

Originally posted by dbrandt
Also sins done by the unsaved will follow them to hell and will increase the torment in hell that that person experiences.

This simply means that the torment a person is in in hell is of their own doing. The person's sins are retained by that person when they could have been given to Christ to have been dealt with by Him and forgiven. So the more sins one does the more sins one takes with them to hell meaning more time to dwell upon them and think upon them in hell. Plus you are spiritually dead for all of eternity, plus seperated from God for all of eternity. Noone right now, even the unsaved, are completely seperated from God. But hell will be an existance of complete seperation from God.




[edit on 2-8-2007 by dbrandt]

[edit on 2-8-2007 by dbrandt]

And how is this not a scare tactic?

What an odd thread.

I`ve been living my day to day life in a nation where roughly 80% of the population have declared themselves Buddhists, a further 90% have declared themselves practitioners of Shinto, and some 75% consider themselves to be atheists.

What`s beautiful about it is that no one sees any contradiction in those numbers at all.

A friend of mine has a shrine in his home to his dead father - as is the norm. Every morning, he puts down a glass of sake, a bowl of rice, and a pack of smokes. Lays `em out on the shrine, says a prayer, tings the little bell thing, lights the incense. and steals one of his ol` man`s smokes. He`s an atheist, but his father wasn`t. And he sees no contradiction in any of it. My friend, I mean. I have no idea what his father thinks about it.

The thing is, it`s refreshing. Liberating, almost. There are no televangelists on TV, there are no thinly disguised protestant messages in TV shows, and if anyone thought about putting up the 10 commandments, people would likely just read `em and say "yeah, ok, that`s nice. oooh, look! there`s a guy attempting to eat his weight in hot dogs!" and that`d be the end of it. People aren`t all that bothered about religion because it`s no one`s damned business but your own.

And that`s the bit that I find most refreshing. I`m an atheist. I`m happy. You`re a Christian? Good for you. Enjoy your life. Be happy. In Canada - and ESPECIALLY in America - there`s this desire of certain Christians to proselytize at every opportunity, to corner you in on your coffee break and pat their little fish lapel pin and start asking questions that are quite frankly none of their business. Some might call it rude. Not me, of course, I know you mean well.

Same with the 10 commandments thing - it`s all well and good, and they`re quite reasonable when you get right down to it, especially all the coveting bits. But I would prefer to be governed by a law that does not state as the outset that I shall have no gods before Yaweh. And that`s the bit that I personally resent - especially if displayed in a government building. I shall have whatever gods I am inclined to believe in. At the moment, that number = 0.

And there`s the rub. Christianity - or Islam, or Judaisim (what is it with the monotheists?) seem to have a need to spread their own version of how life should be led. Sometimes they`re not all that eager to take no for an answer. So it creeps in.

For example, here on ATS, it creeps into roughly 60% of the threads.

In the bigger picture, we get poorly thought out legislation based on outdated religious morality, written with an eye for the next election rather than the impact of the law. Incompetent faith based initiatives that do nothing more than make people feel good. A subtle media programming that compounds the message and lets you know that your have the one right way, and everyone else needs to be saved. To become like you. And when times are good, you tie it to brotherly love and being good to each other - but when the well runs dry, it`s "For God And King And Country!" and drawing lines in the sand on God`S orders.

You`re a Christian? Good for you. I have no problem with that. Hope it all works out for you. Hope it brings meaning to your life. I respect your choice to believe in God. Furthermore, I promise not to ring your doorbell at 9:00 on a Saturday morning to quote Sartre at you and tell you how happy I am and how unhappy you must be by default, and I promise not to come to your Sunday school classes to teach Evolutionary Biology at your kids. You`re more than welcome at my place for BBQ on any of the atheist holidays, providing you bring wine or a salad of some kind. Desserts are ok, but nothing with Jell-o.

You do the same. Good for a start?

Originally posted by zysin5
Hello saint4God, Thank you for taking the time out to reply to what I said, you put it to me there pretty straight without to many faith like tatics.

Cool, I appreciate the compliment . I don't like tactics...because this is not a game.

Originally posted by zysin5
The whole deal here is I dont want to have to quote a bible to look for my answers.

I'm with ya on that. I don't have the Bible memorized nor would I wish to. Granted it could be handy at times, overall it's not a help to anyone except believers who say "where was that passage about...". The Bible teaches how to think moreso than what to think. Then, by making use of our relationship with God and our heart, the answers should come more naturally.

Originally posted by zysin5
Your pretty good at bible quoting there your posts, which if that works for you fine. But not me, and thats one of the main issues between people like us is we dont like eachothers ways brought to the table.

Fair enough. I only quote when either someone says that the Bible says something is doesn't or if I believe the other person is a believer/partial-believer. In starting off my reply, I thought the latter was the case. On the contrary about likes, I'm glad you've decided to sit at the table . Many people I know aren't willing to even do that.

Originally posted by zysin5
I call it like I see it, and when church didnt work for me, and works for you I guess we just have to live with that, and not try to change it.

Christianity isn't a country club. God doesn't care if you have membership at this church or that church. He cares what you believe in your heart. Church can be a help. But, not saying all churches are or are the same.

Originally posted by zysin5
But I dont like the threat of saying Im going to hell.

Who does?

Originally posted by zysin5
I dont like how churchs work Tax Free, and list goes on and on of things I dont like.

Ever ask why they work "Tax Free"? I'd be interested in hearing the other things if you don't mind expanding.

Originally posted by zysin5
Its all about the churches and the peopel with the money.

God doesn't care about money and neither should churches. It can be a tool. But just like a hammer, you can use it to build a house or smash one apart.

Originally posted by zysin5
Not the people like you who have a good heart, and see church as a way to be with friends and family, helping everyone out.

I appreciate the compliment, though wouldn't qualify myself as having a good heart over anyone else. I do try, but we all mess up.

Originally posted by zysin5
But at the top its courpted.

They all are? Are you sure?

Originally posted by zysin5
And my friend that to me is evil. So am I too fight aginst the evil I see?

So long as what you see is indeed evil. Check your eyes is all I'm asking and make sure you don't hit the friendly targets. We'd be in the fight together in that case.

Originally posted by zysin5
Everyone fights for something, but I just dont see winning aginst those evils fighting with people who are just being duped brother.

So...you're giving up? That was a short battle.

Originally posted by zysin5
My God knows we dont need church and these rich preists and their fancy cars, Im telling you!!

Is it evil to be rich? Why or why not? Also here is the assumption that all priests are rich...and dare I say is the assumption that all church leaders are priests.

Originally posted by zysin5
God doesnt need me to go and kill anyone in his name or hurt anyone,

You're absolutely right.

Originally posted by zysin5
God to me is the power to know right from wrong.

That is a part of God, that's the power He can give, though that's not all He is.

Originally posted by zysin5
This universe is to grand for someone as small as me to know anything other than right or wrong..

I don't think you give yourself enough credit ^_^, but there's a lot of good things to be said about humility.

Originally posted by zysin5
So I feel what I belive Is right, and I wont find that in a church. But with my family and friends, and those I can talk to about in this world.

Family, friends, and church can all be a help. They're all part of a unit, a community. They can be good guides (or bad) but having that community can help one in discerning right from wrong. Havning a relationship with God, however, can save a lot of time finding out and bypass misinformation. That "direct phoneline" can also be a lot of help to family and friends who are in need.

Originally posted by zysin5
Dont try to save us saint4God

I cannot save anyone. That's God's job. I can only point to Him.

Originally posted by zysin5
when you might need to look at yourself and the people you support at the TOP..

Believe me, I do closely examine my church leadership. And, have been known to raise objection when something didn't seem right. Sometimes I feel I was right, sometimes I just didn't understand them correctly. Either way, I got answers.

Originally posted by zysin5
Your a good heart and this isnt directed at you personally.

It's cool and appreciate it. I don't mean anything personally offensive to others either.

Originally posted by zysin5
See we are both trying to save eachother!! hehe crazy world..

I appreciate ya, and it's good to test metal. If it breaks, it wasn't forged properly in the first place.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
here are your 'miracles' and here is your absolute power of christianity..

video.google.com...

[edit on 1-8-2007 by shaunybaby]

I thought I would post this one again as it was ignored.

It's all nice Christians coming here posting their evidence of miracles, which is along the lines of someone who knows someone who knows someone who knew someone who's cancer dissapeared and had doctors dumbfounded..

On the other hand, when it comes to someone showing you evidence of miracles not working, it's ignored..

Wierd.

Is this a case of Christians believing only what they want to believe. Afterall that is what faith is isn't it? It's the belief in something, despite overwhelming evidence to suggest you're wrong. Ignoring evidence is just another quality Christians have.

Shaunybaby,
Jesus warned of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing(If they're wearing sheep's clothing, they call themselves "christians")
I have had many miracles!!!!!
From the first moment I tentatively told God I believed in his son, to the times Jesus took our son's sicknesses, the time I prayed over someones burn and the pain left.
Jesus talking to us is a daily occurance, but you would not think our frienship "miraculous", since you don't love God.

Religion has nothign to do with proof, and everything to do with faith.

It is by this faith a relgion can attain absolute power in a society.

People *will* believe anything.