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The Absolute Power of Christianity!

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posted on Apr, 3 2007 @ 01:17 AM
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quote: Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
We make him the patsy, and pass the buck?

Saint4God: He made Himself the patsy. What Christ said on the cross as recorded in Greek is "Tetelestai" which translates to "It is finished". He wasn't saying his life is over here. Tetelestai is a financial term that means "the debt is paid in full". Now he didn't owe a debt because he was sinless. The man who knew no sin, became sin for us ("And the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all" according to the old testament prophecy). He rose again to show us that indeed his payment was acceptable for those who trust in him.

quote: Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Jesus himself could not sway me to give up my sins to him, in person.

Saint4God: I am sorry to hear you say that. You'll have your opportunity to apply your statement. In the meanwhile I can only hope you'd reconsider.

But, Saint4God, even though you say that he made himself the patsy, you also say we must accept him in order to receive the reward. In my case, does that mean he paid for my sins even though I will never agree that anyone other than myself pay for them?
My principles do not allow me to do such a thing, however great the reward for doing so may be. If I must be sent to hell, or perish, then so be it, for even eternal life in heaven is not enough to change my mind. Don't be sorry, or hope I'll reconsider, because I am happy with my choice. I was eight years old when I felt inside my heart that I liked the things that I was being taught were said by Jesus, and I never changed that. What changed was my desire to avoid hell, my belief in the devil, and my belief that any particular belief was the only right one. What I cannot imagine is that such great people as the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, etc., would not be in heaven. Jesus could not turn them down, could he? If that is the case, I misread those verses when I was eight, and the unconditional love, forgiveness, and inclusive acceptance that I attributed to Jesus was not all I had thought it was. But, I believe in life after death, I believe in guardian angels, I believe in the power of prayer, and miracles, and that life is sacred, and that there is a purpose and reason for all that occurs. What I don't believe is that Christians are any more likely to be good-hearted, kind, loving, charitable people than any other people. There are good, spiritual, ethical, people who are atheist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Wiccan, Shinto, Animist, etcetera. My modern day hero is Mother Teresa, a Catholic, whom many Protestants teach is not a Christian. She is the best contemproary example of a Christian I have ever heard of. The Dalai Lama is a spiritual man, he is wise, he spreads a message of peace, love, and kindness. Jesus and he would have no quarrel, as they teach the same things. But, Christians say the Dalai Lama cannot enter heaven. How can that be?




posted on Apr, 3 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
But, Saint4God, even though you say that he made himself the patsy, you also say we must accept him in order to receive the reward.


Right.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In my case, does that mean he paid for my sins even though I will never agree that anyone other than myself pay for them?


No, the problem with only John 3:16 being the popular well known verse is that people quote the first half...in the hope that love is enough to come to God. But, there's more than just the verse which is typically recited:

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." - John 3:18

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." - John 3:36 (Mark 16:16 also)

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." - John 8:24


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
My principles do not allow me to do such a thing, however great the reward for doing so may be. If I must be sent to hell, or perish, then so be it, for even eternal life in heaven is not enough to change my mind.


It is your choice to do so. In reading some previous things you'd said, I admit I saw hope.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Don't be sorry, or hope I'll reconsider,


It is not something I can help. It's something I feel.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
because I am happy with my choice.


I don't believe if you understood the impact or magnitutde of what you're saying you'd be able to say so.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I was eight years old when I felt inside my heart that I liked the things that I was being taught were said by Jesus, and I never changed that. What changed was my desire to avoid hell, my belief in the devil, and my belief that any particular belief was the only right one. What I cannot imagine is that such great people as the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, etc., would not be in heaven. Jesus could not turn them down, could he?


That's not for either to decide (Revelation 20:11-15). That's between them and he. We only need to decide whether we turn down Jesus or not.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
If that is the case, I misread those verses when I was eight, and the unconditional love, forgiveness, and inclusive acceptance that I attributed to Jesus was not all I had thought it was. But, I believe in life after death, I believe in guardian angels, I believe in the power of prayer, and miracles, and that life is sacred, and that there is a purpose and reason for all that occurs.


It's a start
. Maybe that's the hope I'd seen before...


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
What I don't believe is that Christians are any more likely to be good-hearted, kind, loving, charitable people than any other people.


The problem is that people are self-labeling much of the time. We can call ourselves anything. What we do can be an indicator, but we can never know another person's heart by name or label.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
There are good, spiritual, ethical, people who are atheist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Wiccan, Shinto, Animist, etcetera. My modern day hero is Mother Teresa, a Catholic, whom many Protestants teach is not a Christian.


It would be judgemental, I think, to make a statement saying Mother Teresa is not Christian.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIIIShe is the best contemproary example of a Christian I have ever heard of.


I've not found any reason that gives me doubt.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
The Dalai Lama is a spiritual man, he is wise, he spreads a message of peace, love, and kindness. Jesus and he would have no quarrel, as they teach the same things. But, Christians say the Dalai Lama cannot enter heaven. How can that be?


Christians don't get to say who can and cannot enter heaven. It's not our heaven, nor are we the judge. But, we know Whose it is and Who is. Only by listening to Him can we discern truth.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." - Matthew 7:1-5

[edit on 3-4-2007 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 4 2007 @ 06:45 AM
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i really wish that you had thoughts of your own, rather than constantly quoting from the bible, hence quoting someone else's words. it's tiring.



posted on Apr, 5 2007 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
i really wish that you had thoughts of your own, rather than constantly quoting from the bible, hence quoting someone else's words. it's tiring.


Take a literary histogram of all the things I've said on this thread. I think you may surprised at the percentage of words that are my own. Regardless, I'm familiar with Biblical quote being little use to you...which is why I wasn't addressing them to you.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 5 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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The problem with structured religion (such as christianity) is that they think that to get close to God all you have to do is a couple of steps (getting saved, baptism) and you are on your way to God. Well, that is not how it works. It's how you think and subsequently act. First, keep God as your guide. Keep His light in your thoughts. Second, do things that do not hurt others in anyway, nor think about hurting others. No one is above anybody else, or, below. Accept your purpose and keep the commandments n the foremost of your thoughts, and you will become closer to God. Read the bible for examples of this. Skeptism is lack of faith.
Al these people see UFO's and there are people who still don't believe em'. Why? Who are we to judge who is a proper witness and who is not. People say they've visited heaven in Near Death Experiences? I believe em, cause I have faith. With faith, ANYTHING is possible.
Stop trying to break it down into easy step. Believing is the ONLY step. Be sure to ask God through Jesus when you ask for something from Him. He always answers, we just have to believe the answer.



posted on Jun, 16 2007 @ 01:50 PM
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A 5-year-old girl who was feared drowned with her grandfather on a boating trip startled searchers Friday when she emerged from the woods — naked, scratched and holding raspberries.

The surrounding area is wilderness with no homes, and populated only by coyotes and deer, Momence Fire Chief Dave Horn said.

Richard Wehrle, a friend and neighbor of David Klamecki, said the area is notoriously treacherous.

"Anybody who knows that river knows that that's the deadliest part of the river," Wehrle said.

Tricia Little, a close family friend of Hannah's parents, said David Klamecki taught the girl and her two younger sisters about the outdoors. She credits that instruction — and God — with Hannah's survival.

Searchers believed she had drowned and were scouring the area with a team of divers, sonar equipment and a helicopter.

...parishioners have been "praying for his whole family."

"Obviously, we're giving all the glory to God on this one," Brian Little said.


www.cnn.com...

or

www.foxnews.com...

I love good news
. Glad to see credit is given where due.

[edit on 16-6-2007 by saint4God]



posted on Jun, 16 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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saint4God, yeah... let's thank god for saving some people but not curse god when god let's millions of children starve...

honestly, i hate it when people thank god.
a child recovers from an illness, people thank god. they should be thanking the doctors, nurses, surgeons, pharmacists, radiologists, and other professionals of medical science. they should be thanking the advances made by medical science over the years. instead they thank something that did nothing at all.



posted on Jun, 16 2007 @ 03:06 PM
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Madnessinmysoul, an elderly man in my church used to have a brain tumor that doctors thought was irreversible. Recently, his tumor has shrunk and healed by itself and he gave a sermon today about how he turned to God when doctors told him there was nothing else that could be done.

A woman in my church also lost sight in one of her eyes, but it too healed miraculously. Her doctor said that it was physically impossible, but now she has sight in both of her eyes.

The point, is that miracles truly do occur. And when they do, you should also thank God because doctors and nurses can only do so much. And plus, doctors and medical institutions are sometimes corrupt, pouring all of their funding into developing new treatments for diseases instead of new cures. Which is more profitable, producing a cure that will take away someone's disease or making new treatments that keep the person as a steady customer, relying on your drugs and treatment?



posted on Jun, 16 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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Firstly to address the news story. An absolute pathetic and desperate attempt to prove the existance of a devine being. Was this the Christian God, because it happened in America? Maybe if someone gets out of a pickle in say, Iraq, we'll be sure to thank Allah, or maybe if a little girl goes missing in India, we'll be sure to give Vishnu a call, afterall he is the maintainer.

So what proof is there that there was anything devine at work here?


Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Madnessinmysoul, an elderly man in my church used to have a brain tumor that doctors thought was irreversible. Recently, his tumor has shrunk and healed by itself and he gave a sermon today about how he turned to God when doctors told him there was nothing else that could be done.


You know, Doctors do actually get things wrong.



A woman in my church also lost sight in one of her eyes, but it too healed miraculously. Her doctor said that it was physically impossible, but now she has sight in both of her eyes.


How about some details for these cases? This is worse than 'my friend told me' or 'I once heard'. Utter nonsense.



The point, is that miracles truly do occur.


The point is that there is no factual evidence for this. News stories of people surviving, despite the odds, is not proof of a devine being 'helping us out'.



And when they do, you should also thank God because doctors and nurses can only do so much.


So I take it if you ever get a life threatening illness, or your wife, or your children, or anyone in your family, you'll not be going to the hospital, instead you'll just solely pray for your illness to dissapear. Because why would you need medicine, when you have God? Infact why does every Christian therefore need to go to hospital? Surely with these miracles taking place they can pray for a miracle, or better yet die and go to heaven. Now if there really is heaven, why would you want to get better if you were ill, would you not want to go to heaven and 'meet your maker'? It's all a bit backwards, is it not?

[edit on 16-6-2007 by shaunybaby]



posted on Jun, 17 2007 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
So what proof is there that there was anything devine at work here?


This isn't proof to you, this is proof to the people involved. Your proof would be different I'm sure.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
You know, Doctors do actually get things wrong.


Yes, however I believe they have good intentions. Big pharma may care more about business than actual cures sometimes, but they tend to get in trouble when they do by the FDA and cGMP standards. Interesting this comes up now because I'm studying these regs in my current job at a bio company.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
How about some details for these cases? This is worse than 'my friend told me' or 'I once heard'. Utter nonsense.


Even though this address isn't to me, we'd been through this loop before Shauny, I copy & pasted actual e-mails from the person with a disappearing tumor which included what doctors said. You'd even given me questions to ask them, which I did and posted the replies. I'm confident even asking for these details then would be a fruitless effort. I'm even more concerned that you already know that.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
The point is that there is no factual evidence for this. News stories of people surviving, despite the odds, is not proof of a devine being 'helping us out'.


I wouldn't expect you (nor I) to believe based on heresay. Rather, it's an encouragement to receive proof that is personal and applicable to you.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
So I take it if you ever get a life threatening illness, or your wife, or your children, or anyone in your family, you'll not be going to the hospital, instead you'll just solely pray for your illness to dissapear. Because why would you need medicine, when you have God? Infact why does every Christian therefore need to go to hospital?


Sometimes miracles happen through other people, such as doctors. These "shared" miracles are the most amazing sort because you can verify with others what happened. Reminds me of a story (as an example), but is perhaps too long to post here.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
Surely with these miracles taking place they can pray for a miracle, or better yet die and go to heaven. Now if there really is heaven, why would you want to get better if you were ill, would you not want to go to heaven and 'meet your maker'? It's all a bit backwards, is it not?


I agree. Most of the time with illness the prayer often is and should be from a believer that there would be less pain and God's will to be done. We cannot see all ends, the benefits and consequences of living in this life for longer. Many times it is selfish to pray yourself better rather than to pray that your loved ones will be able to cope without you and that they understand where you end up. Our human fear of death or loss tends to consume us at times and causes us to pray selfish things. Is it wrong to pray for good things to come to yourself? Or that you'll be helped out of a bad situation? Interesting discussion, I'm not entirely sure I have a complete answer. More than likely if a believer was given the option of meeting their Maker without death and knowing family would not grieve, they'd jump at it. I know I would. I've told family, "I love you, but if I see a light at the end of the tunnel, I'm not going to be turning back...and see you when you get there."
You've made this point a few times (in different ways), and I like it and appreciate it each time you do. It's a healthy thing for a Christian to think about and come to grips with.


[edit on 17-6-2007 by saint4God]



posted on Jun, 17 2007 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I agree. Most of the time with illness the prayer often is and should be from a believer that there would be less pain and God's will to be done. We cannot see all ends, the benefits and consequences of living in this life for longer. Many times it is selfish to pray yourself better rather than to pray that your loved ones will be able to cope without you and that they understand where you end up. Our human fear of death or loss tends to consume us at times and causes us to pray selfish things. Is it wrong to pray for good things to come to yourself? Or that you'll be helped out of a bad situation? Interesting discussion, I'm not entirely sure I have a complete answer. More than likely if a believer was given the option of meeting their Maker without death and knowing family would not grieve, they'd jump at it. I know I would. I've told family, "I love you, but if I see a light at the end of the tunnel, I'm not going to be turning back...and see you when you get there."
You've made this point a few times (in different ways), and I like it and appreciate it each time you do. It's a healthy thing for a Christian to think about and come to grips with.
[edit on 17-6-2007 by saint4God]


This is because of lack of knowledge. People usually suffer because they are not advanced or aware enough how to help themselves. It's not God's fault but just fault of primitive society.

Sure, there may be cases where all hope is lost, but not knowing what happens after the physical death also causes unneeded pain.

All this will be fixed as civilization advances, and awareness increases.



posted on Jun, 18 2007 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
This isn't proof to you, this is proof to the people involved. Your proof would be different I'm sure.


Have you heard the story of the girl that went missing in Spain? 'Madeleine'. Apparently she's in the ''thoughts and prayers'' and people ''pray that she will return well and safe''. So what happened here? Why does God save one person, but not another.


Originally posted by saint4God
Yes, however I believe they have good intentions. Big pharma may care more about business than actual cures sometimes, but they tend to get in trouble when they do by the FDA and cGMP standards. Interesting this comes up now because I'm studying these regs in my current job at a bio company.


The questions is should people rely on prayer alone to heal people? I've found news articles of parents refusing treatment for their child who has diabeties, and pray for them to get better, and their child has died. Western medicine, alternative medicine, and prayer, I'm sure it doesn't hurt to try all of them. If I had a life threatening illness that supposedly couldn't be treated by conventional medicine, I'd be the first to try alternative solutions. But I don't think that we can get rid of either, in favour of another.


Originally posted by saint4God
Even though this address isn't to me, we'd been through this loop before Shauny, I copy & pasted actual e-mails from the person with a disappearing tumor which included what doctors said. You'd even given me questions to ask them, which I did and posted the replies. I'm confident even asking for these details then would be a fruitless effort. I'm even more concerned that you already know that.


So it's impossible for a tumour to regress on it's own? Sometimes chemo may look as though it isn't working, but after sometime tumours can stop growing on their own, and also regress, likewise. It is unlikely, but not impossible. He can't be the first person to ever have tumour that's in regression, and he's also not the first person to attribute getting better was God's doing. I suspect he won't be the last either.

I think it's an important thing to say ''this isn't proof for me, it is however proof for the people involved''. And at the end of the day that's what the people involved are looking for. They're looking for a reason for their faith, a reason to say ''hey look we were right, there is God, check out this story we've got''. All little churches have their own miracle stories. Whether it's backpain being healed, someone who couldn't walk, a person who couldn't see out of one eye, someone with a brain tumour, all churches have their own miracle stories where God supposedly helped out. Now does this vast amount of miracles mean that God really is helping, or does the vast amount of miracles show that they're in fact made up as miracles do not grow on trees and are not a dime a dozen?

[edit on 18-6-2007 by shaunybaby]



posted on Jun, 19 2007 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
Have you heard the story of the girl that went missing in Spain? 'Madeleine'. Apparently she's in the ''thoughts and prayers'' and people ''pray that she will return well and safe''. So what happened here? Why does God save one person, but not another.


This is a very interesting question. I heard a message some time ago by Pete Briscoe who was talking about this very same thing, and I think he did a great job. I'll try to summarize as best I can.

In the book of James in the Bible, the author talks about us having not received because we have not asked, and having asked, we still don't receive because we pray with our passions (i.e. letting our selfish desires guide our prayer. For example, "Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz"). This raises a question, though. Are these the only criteria? What about those prayers that seem in line with God enough, yet go unanswered, such as your example above regarding Madeleine?

Quite simply, there are prayers we pray that are in line with God's Word, that are not driven by our passions, that do not go answered because they were prayed in ignorance. This isn't to say we shouldn't still pray about these things. A finite mind cannot fathom the infinite mind of God, and ultimately, it is His will to answer our prayers in the affirmative or negative. What's even more amazing is that He wants us to ask! I know I tend to lose patience walking through a toystore and hearing a 4-year-old ask "oh, can I have this?" 17 or 18 times through each aisle. Yet, God doesn't, He wants us to be asking, even if His answer is "no".

But, what does that mean, a holy prayer prayed in ignorance? Pete Briscoe gave a great example in his sermon. On Spetember 11, 2001, Pete's mom Jill was flying into New York from Europe. After the first plane flew into the World Trade Center, he started trying to find out what was going on with him mom's flight and, like so many others, was stonewalled by the airlines. At that time, he got down on his knees and prayed that God would get his mom home safely and quickly.

God answered half of that prayer.

His mom landed safely, but she was diverted (I don't recall where, but it's where all the planes flying into NYC that day were diverted to) and was sleeping on a cot with hundreds of other people. Pete's prayers became more fervent -- his mom is old, and sleeping on a cot in the middle of an airport couldn't be good for her. Yet, God's answer to Pete's completely holy prayer to bring her home was a resounding, "No!"

But why? As you said, why does God "save" one person and not another?

After that trip, Jill Briscoe, who has been in ministry since 1958 with her husband, came home and said that that week living on a cot contained some of the most dynamic ministry she's ever been involved in in her entire life. We had here Pete, who, from his perspective, saw a need for his mom to get home and asked God for Him to do it. At the same time, we had God, who used this opportunity to spread his message amongst strangers who never would have come in contact with one another had not Jill been stuck there for a week.

There's a bigger picture than the one we, as individuals, can see. How many times in life have you wanted something, not gotten it, and looked back, thankful you didn't get it? (I'm thinking everyone who almost got that Pinto they always wanted
) How many times have you really wanted something, gotten it, and discovered it wasn't what you really wanted at all? Or that it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be? God sees the bigger picture, and though we, through our filters here on earth, may not understand or may even find it cruel, He is moving things according to the grand scheme, rather than the micro scheme.



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
Have you heard the story of the girl that went missing in Spain? 'Madeleine'. Apparently she's in the ''thoughts and prayers'' and people ''pray that she will return well and safe''. So what happened here? Why does God save one person, but not another.


I think JJ had the best answer. My summary was simply that God answers all prayers, but sometimes the answer is "no". Before the endless lashings of cruel and malicious God come into play, might I remind the audience back to JJ's example about not seeing all ends and the book of James. God may allow suffering, but not pointless suffering nor necessarily "deserved" suffering as they rest in our judgement and in our eyes.


Originally posted by shaunybaby
The questions is should people rely on prayer alone to heal people? I've found news articles of parents refusing treatment for their child who has diabeties, and pray for them to get better, and their child has died. Western medicine, alternative medicine, and prayer, I'm sure it doesn't hurt to try all of them. If I had a life threatening illness that supposedly couldn't be treated by conventional medicine, I'd be the first to try alternative solutions. But I don't think that we can get rid of either, in favour of another.


I'll agree with that. I find a miracle a lot more miraculous when mankind has tried everything in its power, then God does what we cannot. I also believe medicine is the result of honest effort to do right, hope and healing others out of love. What kind of Christian would negate these things?


Originally posted by shaunybaby
So it's impossible for a tumour to regress on it's own? Sometimes chemo may look as though it isn't working, but after sometime tumours can stop growing on their own, and also regress, likewise. It is unlikely, but not impossible. He can't be the first person to ever have tumour that's in regression, and he's also not the first person to attribute getting better was God's doing. I suspect he won't be the last either.


We agree here too. There is that possibility. But, when you tally improbabilities, the calculator starts running out of numbers. What then when the mathmatical models that we use daily begin to degrade?


Originally posted by shaunybaby
I think it's an important thing to say ''this isn't proof for me, it is however proof for the people involved''. And at the end of the day that's what the people involved are looking for. They're looking for a reason for their faith, a reason to say ''hey look we were right, there is God, check out this story we've got''. All little churches have their own miracle stories. Whether it's backpain being healed, someone who couldn't walk, a person who couldn't see out of one eye, someone with a brain tumour, all churches have their own miracle stories where God supposedly helped out. Now does this vast amount of miracles mean that God really is helping, or does the vast amount of miracles show that they're in fact made up as miracles do not grow on trees and are not a dime a dozen?


It's a good question, but is missing a huge chunk of the miracle population. There's also many who have found God because a miracle occurred. Why go to God at that time and not before? And, why not years after instead of at the moment of that incredible moment? What triggered them to source it to God? All interesting questions to add to yours.

I do believe (many of my counterparts may disagree) that miracles are indeed a dime a dozen, we just don't give credit where due. When did mankind make the sun rise? Or put air onto the planet? Or make gravity function? If these maths are so reliable with these things, why do they break down when a miracle occurs? It makes no logical sense, unless of course these happens are also miracles in themselves.

Love the questions. When I start answering questions with questions, it means I don't have all the answers...but I can introduce you to the One who does.


[edit on 21-6-2007 by saint4God]



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
when god let's millions of children starve...



We live in a fallen world, a world that has rejected God, this is how a world looks and acts and runs and what happens in it when man is in charge.

Now, having said that, we are in charge to a degree. God is omniscient and omnipotent and can intertwine our behavior into His goals and will prevent things He doesn't want to happen. By the same token He allows some things to happen that are horrific.

Why does Africa suffer immensely from starvation and the U.S. doesn't? I have some theories. Only God knows all the reasons, and we won't know all the answers this side of eternity. That's basically what the Book of Job is about. Why does someone suffer terrible trajedies?


God's goal is the same for every person, that no one perish and enter eternity outside of His presence. People need "attention getters" or they never would come to Christ. Some people experience more severe attention getters than others. And even after salvation, the saved are still refined.



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
when god let's millions of children starve...


(...)
Why does Africa suffer immensely from starvation and the U.S. doesn't? I have some theories. Only God knows all the reasons, and we won't know all the answers this side of eternity. That's basically what the Book of Job is about. Why does someone suffer terrible trajedies?
(...)


To some degree because of Christianity too, for example The Cross and the Genocide and not allowing people to use condoms, so they spread AIDS even more. Nice. This is what happens when you listen to Vatican.



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by sb2012

To some degree because of Christianity too, for example The Cross and the Genocide and not allowing people to use condoms, so they spread AIDS even more. Nice. This is what happens when you listen to Vatican.


I have to keep saying this because there are alot of people reading it for the first time. It's acknowledged all over the world that the catholic church is a representation of christianity, but it is not genuine christianity. Centuries ago people snuck into true christianity under the guise of being a christian, when in actuality they were not. After a couple of hundred years and many fake christians later the catholic church was born. It compromised true christianity and continues to do so.

Do not base your view of christianity on the catholic church or youwill not ever see the real Jesus Christ.

As far as condoms and AIDS. We have a huge problem. If you went up on a snow covered hill and started a small snowball and keep pushing it down the hill it will get bigger and at a certain point will have enough weight to roll by itself and anyone or anything below could get injured. Stop making the snowball when it's still small and you won't create a problem.

This represents sexual disease problems.

God's standard is one man and one woman for life, and sex as a part of that relationship, only when the have married. I don't have to tell you all the ways men and women break that standard, and each time someone goes outside that boundry, the problem only gets worse.

That's God's standard, sex outside of that standard will bring problems, and guess what, the vast majority of people in the world operate outside of this standard. And look at the sexual disease's we have in the world today. And the problems have had thousands of years to get to where they are today.

It is possible to live your life within that boundry, people do it all the time. Look at the emotional and financial and physical problems caused by going outside this standard.

One example only:A man and woman are married and have 3 kids. The husband or wife has an affair which is found out. Besides the risk of sexual disease, a marriage is endangered, feelings are hurt, trust is broken, a divorce could take place, kids could be without both parents with the children as much as possible and will suffer emotionally, depression couls set in. If the divorce takes place many will suffer financially. And many other things could happen I haven't even listed from just one example of one case in point. Mutiply this case by all the times in the world it's happened, and add to it all the other different scenarios that take place, and that's how you get an epidemic.




[edit on 21-6-2007 by dbrandt]



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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dbrandt, your definition for christianity is no more valid than any other definition of christianity. there is no "true christianity"



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 02:32 AM
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So, why do you use same books, if Christianity is not represented in Church and why Christians go to the Church then? Why not stay at home on Sunday and tell Church it's time to get real and requesting reformation?

About Africa and AIDS, no it's not a problem. Just give poor people condoms because they risk infection and diseases, they have poor sanitation, no running water and other problems typical for poor countries.

It's wrong to exploit this situation and to spread Bibles instead of educating them with some practical knowledge and ensuring healthy living. Very, very selfish and irresponsible. People are dying, you are aware of that? Is this not enough reason to help them? Children dying because we can't decide to give them some help? And we justify that by reading some old book?

Also, i see your view on condoms and AIDS is same as Vatican's official response, yet you are telling Church is not representing Christians.

I hope God forgives Vatican and all other people who refuse to help people in need just because they think it's better to let them die than help them for some twisted reason.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by sb2012]



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
God's standard is one man and one woman for life, and sex as a part of that relationship, only when the have married. I don't have to tell you all the ways men and women break that standard, and each time someone goes outside that boundry, the problem only gets worse.


It's extremely unatural to expect a species that has a sole purpose to reproduce, to have only one partner in their lifetime, and to also not start having sex until they're ready to make a life-long commitment to another person. We're mammals, we are not special unique snowflakes, we are people, and we act on instinct. Start living a bit dbrandt, don't be afraid. You're pretty much saying ''don't have sex outside of marriage, have only one partner, because you could catch aids''. It's the same as saying ''don't climb that mountain, don't parachute out of that plane, you might hurt yourself''. Some people want to live life like a coffin dodger, and that's fine, but you'll never experience the full extent of what life has to offer unless sometimes you take risks.



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