The Absolute Power of Christianity!

Originally posted by Clearskies
Jesus warned of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing(If they're wearing sheep's clothing, they call themselves "christians")

So God doesn't heal those sick people out of spite?

Originally posted by Clearskies
I have had many miracles!!!!! From the first moment I tentatively told God I believed in his son, to the times Jesus took our son's sicknesses, the time I prayed over someones burn and the pain left.

So you're saying if your son got a life threatening illness, you would refuse him medical treatment? Why would any Christian need medical treatment if Jesus can clearly make your sickness go away? I'm pretty sure that Christians go to see Doctors and stay in hospitals. Why do they do this if Jesus can heal them?

Originally posted by Clearskies
Shaunybaby,
Jesus warned of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing(If they're wearing sheep's clothing, they call themselves "christians")
I have had many miracles!!!!!
From the first moment I tentatively told God I believed in his son, to the times Jesus took our son's sicknesses, the time I prayed over someones burn and the pain left.
Jesus talking to us is a daily occurance, but you would not think our frienship "miraculous", since you don't love God.

Did you ever stop to think maybe, if there was any healing power in your prayers, it had more to do with your belief and love for your son than it did in whatever diety you were praying to?

Jesus told us, "According to your faith, be it done unto you". Thats pretty straight forward and commensurate with the Beattitudes... you are going to find whatever you are looking for. Jesus was a master at understanding human nature. But most people overlook this. But then again, people are superstitious by nature.

Belief is a very unusual word. It has so many depths of meaning that one must define it in each instance or be led away from the facts.

If a person BELIEVED, really believed, that they were receiving their healing and that the illness was going away, it WOULD happen. The belief is what triggers the event. It is natural and the way God set it up. Now, what is belief? It is NOT just hoping...not nearly enough. It is like if you walk into your house and flip the light switch on, you BELIEVE that the light is going to come on. If it does not, you know immediately that something is wrong and that some fix is neded to restore the situation to normal.

Why is that true? Because over time you have flipped the switch a million times and virtually every time the light comes on!! You expect it as a normal and natural part of your belief system that when you flip the switch, the light will come on. If we were that same way about healing, we would be fulfilling God's will for us in that area. No doubt. But we doubt and fear and wonder, anmd so we do not get healed or we use doctors and perhaps get healed their way or perhaps not.

But the people who have not flipped the switch many times and who do not really BELIEVE that they are going to get the light they want, are better off using doctors for sure!! you do NOT step out and refuse medical treatment unless you are one of the few and rare people off faith that have developed through prayer and study and practice the ability to really believe for their healing. Anyone who ' steps out in faith ' is making a big mistake. That is like saying that a pilot os small airplanes is justified in trying on a B-52 just to see if he could do it.

it is reckless and not wise to try and get healing unles you are in a very close walk with God, have over time, years perhaps, developed more and more assurance in the Word and your own level of firm belief, and then step out and decalre your healing and accept the results. If there is ANY doubt at all then it will not work. Imagine, just like the light bulb analogy, you are EXPECTING, FULLY, for the light to come on. If you were expecting your healing with exactly the same level of confidence, you WOULD be healed; it does not depend on God's will ( we know what His will is , that we be healed ) or God making individual decisions to grant this or that..nonsense.

It is a condition of wholeness and wellness established by God speaking it to be so for all time. You step into that wellness by really believing that you are in fact IN that wellness and as a natural consequence of being in that state of wellness, the effects of any disease or malady will diappear or be altered in accordance with the individual nature of the illnes being healed.See? You enter a room of healing by opening a locked door with a special key: The key is the true belief, manifested by the total refusal to accept ANY other possible outcome , that God has provided healing and that to access that healing one must only truly believe that one has entered that healing place and is receiving the healing right then.

It is HARD to believe for healing; it is EASY to believe that a light will come on. Why? Sheeerly the number of times that one has been exposed to the event, thats all it is. If a person started in small steps..say, not taking aspirin or whatever for a headache, but instead just laid their own hands on their head and thanking the Lord for the healing that they ARE receiving RIGHT THEN, when the headsache goes away in a few inutes, which normally they will, that makes a next step possible. the next one might be for something more serious, say a common cold. If the level of belief was not strong enough , then medicines should be taken..you WILL know when you are ready for higher faith levels in belief as you will feel confident and not wondering if it will work.

Hope and wonder are the enemies of faith and healing. do you wonder if the light will come on..hmm? No, you EXPECT it!! Does it suprise you when the light comes on? No, you do not. You EXPECT it to. It is the same thing exactly with belief; when you expect to be healed and are suprised if it did not come in a reasonable time frame then you are at the place where you can expect healings and blesing to flow in life. thios works with ANYreligion although as a Christian, and an unusual one at that, I see God's word as the valid report of the truth than any other tome, and as I have had a personal encounter vis a vis Jesus, I ascribe to the belief that in Christ, one reaches the epitome of the spirit realm and allows for immediate access to advanced enlightenment from the get go; although the vast majority of those so gifted ignore and misuse and even deny the sublime proofs given by virtue of real and substantial healings and other spiritual mainifestations of the physical realms connection to the entire essence of God.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth; God has established for mankind certain abilities to receive healings and blessings of all types by virtue of faith, which is the real and true belief that one has the right and expectation of receiving what they ask for, and when the person that asks for the healing is so truly expecting the symptoms to fall away and to see the results, they will in fact see that happen. Either that or God is a liar, and that is not possible. When people demand that God heal them because He said he would, not only does it please God greatly to see his creation finally getting it, but to see his child healed is a thrill for any loving parent, or father..you know that.

And, God loves seeing us enter the condition of healing that He established for us; think of it as a zone you can entyer in to in your mind and spirit; in that place the healing resides and all you have to do is REALLY believe that you are being healed!! And you will be!! But one instant of ' hope or ' wishing ' or any other doubt, kills the ability to enter the place of healing. That key does not fit into the lock, only the key of belief.

The whole reason people want to believe that God sits back and decides each case as to who gets healed is that it takes the responsibility away from themselves and lays it back on God, who has ALREADY provided the way out of the problem!! Too easy to blame God for not receiving a healing, and too much effort to see the switch on the wall. Start flipping God's switch and see the healing flow!!

junglejake......i think you are the most amazing person ive read on here

shaunybaby,
of course we take our children to the doctor in an emergency, but we don't have insurance and we make too much $$$ for welfare.
Many times when we had 0$$$. God healed our children.
Just "believing" in anything doesn't do anything.
I used to pray to God, palm read and until I got Jesus,
It was all empty. My prayers and fortune telling did nothing but hit the ceiling.
Jesus is the gate to God.
Open it.

Originally posted by Clearskies
of course we take our children to the doctor in an emergency

Why not just pray if Jesus can heal? If your son breaks a leg, Jesus should be able heal that. If he cuts himself badly, then Jesus should be able to stop the bleeding and seal the wound. Obviously nothing like this ever happens. The only things that are ever supposedly healed by prayer are things on the inside, diabetis, heart problems, cancers, etc.

Ofcourse there is doubt in your mind, otherwise you wouldn't take them to the doctor and beg for 21st century medicine.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by Clearskies
of course we take our children to the doctor in an emergency

Why not just pray if Jesus can heal? If your son breaks a leg, Jesus should be able heal that. If he cuts himself badly, then Jesus should be able to stop the bleeding and seal the wound. Obviously nothing like this ever happens. The only things that are ever supposedly healed by prayer are things on the inside, diabetis, heart problems, cancers, etc.

Ofcourse there is doubt in your mind, otherwise you wouldn't take them to the doctor and beg for 21st century medicine.

The integrated spiritual person looks at it this way...

God made Doctors, so we'd be fools not to use them.

Its the old joke about the man in the flood. First a truck comes by and says "You need help?" And the man waves the truck away and says "No worry, God will provide".

Then a boat comes by and asks the same question, and then another boat, yet the devoted Godly man inside waves them on without a care.

Eventually the water is up to the chimney and a helicopter comes by ready to rescue the man, and he waves that off too. Finally the man drowns.

In Heaven he sees God and asks "Why did you forsake me?"

And God answers, "I sent you a truck, two boats and a helicopter! What else did you want!"

Originally posted by Quazga
God made Doctors, so we'd be fools not to use them.

So basically you'd be a fool to rely on prayer alone?

And why would you be a fool? Because it doesn't work.

If it did work, you wouldn't need medicine to cure you.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by Quazga
God made Doctors, so we'd be fools not to use them.

So basically you'd be a fool to rely on prayer alone?

And why would you be a fool? Because it doesn't work.

If it did work, you wouldn't need medicine to cure you.

Acutally prayer works very well. You know how stress, both mental and physical causes diseases? Well, prayer is a way of working with your subconscious to relieve those stresses. Just because God doesn't exist the way most people think, doesn't mean that Prayer doesn't work. You just have to see it for what it is, not what religions tell you.

To simply write it off, is actually pretty foolish.

Originally posted by Quazga
Acutally prayer works very well. You know how stress, both mental and physical causes diseases? Well, prayer is a way of working with your subconscious to relieve those stresses. Just because God doesn't exist the way most people think, doesn't mean that Prayer doesn't work. You just have to see it for what it is, not what religions tell you.

To simply write it off, is actually pretty foolish.

In any scientific study of prayer, a distinct positive has never been found. Even as a placebo effect.

Your theory about stress causing diseases, and prayer subsequently combatting that, this shows prayer is nothing more than a state of meditation. Along the lines of alternative healing methods, such as acupuncture, also something that is used to relax and combat stress.

I've written it off due to the fact that the only evidence for prayer working is 'I knew a bloke who had a friend, who knew this girl, who's cousin, had a boyfriend, who knew this kid, who went to this church and everyone prayed for him and his cancer tumour dissapeared, even after doctors said he would die in like one week'. So yes, faced with this sort of evidence or 'God healed my children', I am writing it off.

Originally posted by Quazga
Acutally prayer works very well. You know how stress, both mental and physical causes diseases? Well, prayer is a way of working with your subconscious to relieve those stresses. Just because God doesn't exist the way most people think, doesn't mean that Prayer doesn't work. You just have to see it for what it is, not what religions tell you.

To simply write it off, is actually pretty foolish.

so prayer is a placebo...
that's all you're saying. the prayer isn't working, the thought that the prayer will work is working.

If there is a conspiration, it is Christianity itself. Whatevever nonsense the Church throws at you, you believe it and follow it. That's pure control, and that's what Christianity is all about; controlling people.

Originally posted by Atlantix
If there is a conspiration, it is Christianity itself. Whatevever nonsense the Church throws at you, you believe it and follow it. That's pure control, and that's what Christianity is all about; controlling people.

What does the Church "control" a person to do?

Originally posted by saint4God
What does the Church "control" a person to do?

it controls them to shove reason from their head, to ignore the thing that fundamentally seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. all religions do this, it isn't something exclusive to christianity.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by saint4God
What does the Church "control" a person to do?

it controls them to shove reason from their head, to ignore the thing that fundamentally seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. all religions do this, it isn't something exclusive to christianity.

sorry im new to this post but I have to chime in. What fundamentaly seperates us is our intellegence and we are given intellegence to understand sastra.

Originally posted by plague
sorry im new to this post but I have to chime in. What fundamentaly seperates us is our intellegence and we are given intellegence to understand sastra.

no, what fundamentally seperates us is how we use our intelligence. we aren't "given" intelligence, it's an evolutionary adaptation. we USE it to understand the world around us through reason, the crowning achievement of humanity as it has lead us to every single scientific discovery that you reap the benefits of.

On faith and reason. It seems to me the point being made is one must abandon reason or intelligence in order to receive faith. I've never found this to be the case. Reason and intelligence are both tools that can be quite useful in testing one's faith. It is used cooperatively with faith. The difference is where reason and intelligence ends, faith continues on. It can be a hard path to follow...(analogy) like walking into a dark room and having to rely upon what you know is there instead of seeing it for certain. Does that mean things do not exist in the room because you do not see them? No, the same things that are there in the dark are there in the light. Until you find the lightswitch, you have to count on that or stumble upon everything until you reach the switch and move accordingly. Here's an interesting discussion that may also add value to the thought of reason and faith:

"From still another point of view the distinction between faith and reason seems somewhat artificial. After all, believers need to use their heads just as much as nonbelievers do. I have found that I cannot bracket my experience of God from my efforts to think about God, since faith cannot be isolated from intelligence. What would be the advantage in acting as if one did not know God in order to think more objectively about the nature of one's belief? That would be like trying to understand a close friend by pretending that one could temporarily suspend one's feelings, affection, and memories, indeed, as if one could suspend the relationship itself.

It may be, of course, that the way we start thinking about God is misdirected. For we tend to begin by looking for evidence in our experience that there really is a God; and if we manage to locate enough resonance of mystery in our experience, then our faith will have some "proof' to rest upon. The trouble is that we can never be sure enough.

We may be raising our questions with the idea that in a well-ordered world the act of believing would no longer be necessary: if we had evidence, proof, and certainty, then we could dispense with believing altogether. We would be able to see clearly. But the genuine development of freedom would never take place unless men and women learned how to trust."

www.spiritualitytoday.org...

The only problem saying that a person can have faith and still be intelligent and use reason, is the parts of The Bible that defy logic and reason.

Things like Noah's Ark for example, there's not enough water on earth to flood all the continents, even if you melt all the ice, there's still only a certain amount of water on the planet, and it's not sufficient enough for a world-wide flood. Right there, we've just disproven Noah's Ark, as it physically cannot happen. A person with intelligence and reason can see that. However, a person with faith can say 'God can do anything'. But in order for a person of faith to say that, they have to disregard any reason or intelligence.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
The only problem saying that a person can have faith and still be intelligent and use reason, is the parts of The Bible that defy logic and reason.

Things like Noah's Ark for example, there's not enough water on earth to flood all the continents, even if you melt all the ice, there's still only a certain amount of water on the planet, and it's not sufficient enough for a world-wide flood. Right there, we've just disproven Noah's Ark, as it physically cannot happen. A person with intelligence and reason can see that. However, a person with faith can say 'God can do anything'. But in order for a person of faith to say that, they have to disregard any reason or intelligence.

There's more water under the surface of Earth. Also how much has evaporated in all these millenium?

Originally posted by Clearskies
There's more water under the surface of Earth.

No where near enough to cover the planet with a world-wide flood of Biblical proportions.

Originally posted by Clearskies
Also how much has evaporated in all these millenium?

Did you ever learn about the water cycle in school? I suggest you look it up.

I think this proves my point about reason and intelligence.