How to enforce Quarantines in the US

originally posted by: Bearmonger
Gov enforced quarantines are necessary because people such as yourself refuse to voluntarily self quarantine...

People like you are the reason I won't self quarantine. You'd aren't guaranteed a life free of getting ill, stay in your own home forever if you don't want the chance of catching a virus from another person.

I'll take gov enforced quarantines over 1-3% of the US population dying. That's tens of millions of people.

That bootlicking approach is a meaningless gesture, despite how troubling it is, as tens of million will not die without a forced quarantine.

a reply to: FellowHuman

FellowHuman has written an insightful post in my opinion. I think questioning the subjective nature of freedom lies at the heart of this. Those who are of the opinion that being told to self quarantine in their own homes when infected is an infringement of their freedoms need to think about what freedoms they truely have. They say that they should be free to go wherever they please and do as they please yet in a society, a Nation State with laws and governance, this is simply not the case. One is not free to trespass across private property, or wander across an airforce base, or walk around the local park in their birthday suit. One loses their freedom if they commit a crime. One is no longer free to walk around infected in a public place - one that is in the case of a Nation State, property of said state, if the law of the land has deemed that to be an offence. If you commit an offence in a Nation State, you can lose your freedoms and be incarcerated. Under quarantine provisions, it could easily become an offence under law to walk around infected. A public place is property of the state, ultimately.

You're freedoms are limited, especially in public, and even in private, when it comes to the law.

a reply to: harold223

The irony is....if you break the quarantine laws they throw you in jail with a bunch of other people who may or maynot have the bug.

The situation has moved from being surreal to totally insane. So now that the control system is in place, what's next the Coors lite virus, Molson flu,
or the fukin Olarutwelve epidemic?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

People like you are the reason I won't self quarantine.

Can I ask you a question?
Do you have any elderly family?
It's the elderly that are at most risk of death from C19.
What would you do to protect your elderly family?
But if you get C19, your freedom means more to you than say your neighbours or families health.
If you get it and they don't have it, should they just shoot you because their elderly family are at risk of you coughing on them and spreading C19 because you wont lock yourself away at home for 2 weeks?
Self quarantine in your own home seems a lot better than say quarantine camps?

a reply to: Kurokage

If I get sick I'm smart enough to not go visit my relatives, elderly or not, I don't need a government-forced quarantine.

As a matter of fact, I don't need a government-forced anything.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thanks for the swift reply.
I asked the question because your answer to bearmonger at the top of the page seemed like you were saying "to hell with self-quarantine no matter what"

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I don't need a government-forced anything.

That's what all baby eaters say

originally posted by: JAGStorm
That's what all baby eaters say

My body, my diet.

a reply to: Bearmonger


Hey Pal , We Enlightened " Boomers " do Not Die Easily , Nor Eat from the Tree of Ignorance . This Virus " SCARE " is just that , just another Attempt by " Them " to Mess with your Head . WISE Up Already and Survive .........

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.usatoday.com...

Missouri man breaks coronavirus self-quarantine to attend father-daughter dance.

Long story short, this guys older daughter traveled to Italy, she came home, hopped on amtrack in Chicago and took the train home. She felt ill and got tested, the government told her and her family to self quarantine. Her dad did not listen and took his younger daughter to a dance. While at the dance they got the news that the older daughter tested positive.

Americans can be weird when it comes to things like quarantines and being told what to do. If this is as serious as some believe it is, measures need to be taken.

I think there is a VERY good way to handle people that don't listen to quarantine orders.
You round them up, and assume they are infected and put them with other infected patients.

Ethical and legal questions are arising regarding this family. What if his disobeying orders kills an old person or someone with a weakened immune system? I know there are people that go out and about with the flu, but this seems different.

This is horrific.

You probably really love the TSA and DHS when you travel, too, and think both of those organizations are there to help you.

Our country was literally founded on the premise of a lack of faith in government. How quickly we forget... here you are willfully suggesting we round people up.

You - and those who think like you - are the problem that’s way, way worse than any Coronavirus could possibly be. You’ll get yourself killed/rounded up/taxed/oppressed and unfortunately take a whole lot of people with you.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

People like you are the reason I won't self quarantine.

Can I ask you a question?
Do you have any elderly family?
It's the elderly that are at most risk of death from C19.
What would you do to protect your elderly family?
But if you get C19, your freedom means more to you than say your neighbours or families health.
If you get it and they don't have it, should they just shoot you because their elderly family are at risk of you coughing on them and spreading C19 because you wont lock yourself away at home for 2 weeks?
Self quarantine in your own home seems a lot better than say quarantine camps?

You have to be kidding me.

Do the “elderly” in question live otherwise illness free lives? Heck no. Do they have LOTS of pre-existing conditions? Yep. Does the regular old flu kill them? Absolutely. Never mind:

- Heart disease.
- COPD
- cancer
- liver problems

This is before we get to the nasty stuff like Alzheimer’s and Dementia.

Saying that someone who isn’t self-quarantining is “selfish” should also be flaming fast food workers or the dude working at 7-11. They sell carcinogens that kill more people daily than CV19 has in totality. Fatty foods, cigs - you name it. Those workers are selfish for wanting to make money selling products that WE KNOW CAN KILL PEOPLE. Yet - where’s the outrage towards those selfish greedy hungry workers.

I can go all day on this. Your argument is ridiculous and the thing that will end more of us than this virus is your train of thought. Bank on that.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You may not, or I may not, but other people may. That has always been the age old dilemma of man/history/rulership. Not everyone is the same, dare i say, not everyone is equal. Which is also why the first thing one should do is raise a people who are of the quality that you are speaking of, responsible and not needing to be led around like a bunch of slaves. Presumably, make them in our own image, or the image that we at least claim to be But everything and everyone is mixed, so one is in the dilemma where they have to treat everyone the same, but as was just noted, what works for some may not work for others.

Likewise there is a huge amount of complexities in why people may make the decisions that they do. Their are many forces and powers that incentivize, pressure, or influence people to continue to go out even when sick. And in many instances it can be argued that they dont really "have a choice" due to these greater powers. In which case one would need another power that would counter those powers "forcing" people to continue going out.

Now of course what is "force" here will be controversial and will require a whole nother discussion examining what that truly means, but hopefully you get my point. Everyones situation is different, with different forces acting upon them, and not everyone has some other person, or some other group (outside the government) that can back them up in countering those forces; Where they can so easily make some of the same decisions or statements you can make, or at least not with the same certainty and confidence. Because they dont have anyone else who will be there for them.

So it then becomes predictable that they turn to government, and then becomes predictable that other people and the government take advantage of it. Almost like it was the plan all along
A bunch of parasitical relationships have formed.

But that is the unfortunate situation the US faces, as well as the rest of the world. A mess where there aren't easy decisions.

a reply to: FellowHuman

No one is guaranteed a sickness-free life and I don't want government trying to enforce a paradigm which is not based in reality.

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

A lot of averaged aged people live with those illness you stated not just the elderly? Sounds like you think the elderly don't matter in the equation?

I asked Augustus a question about what he would do IF he becomes infected, would he self-quarantine, as his reply to Bearmonger sounded like he was saying to hell with self-quarantine if he becomes infected, which he wasn't.

Saying that someone who isn’t self-quarantining is “selfish” should also be flaming fast food workers or the dude working at 7-11.

If you show signs of the C19 then you should consider self quarantine to protect the vulnerable people around you, especially if you work in the places you describe, if you don't then yes that's selfish.

They sell carcinogens that kill more people daily than CV19 has in totality.

So then it's ok, maybe we should introduce more viruses! Your straw man argument is just ridiculous.

It seems like a whole lot of people around here are pretty damned self centered and to be quite frankly ignorant on the subject.

I made a post here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is about the National Emergency Act.

It seems that instead of actually reading our rights and actually DENYING IGNORANCE we would rather make ignorant remarks and think that we know everything.

I have been looking into the National Emergency Act and I can definitely see actions being taken if needed.

Everybody wants to talk sh$#, but dont want to discuss or educate themselves on the matter.

It is very easy to see who doesn't have a clue.

a reply to: JAGStorm

It is an interesting problem, both constitutionally and legally.

Freedom of travel, both, within a state and across state lines is constitutionally protected (privileges and Immunities clause of the US Constitution). The only part of that that can "regulated" is the mode of transportation (car, plane, rail, walking, cruise ships, etc). Freedom of travel is protected however the method of travel is not.

The state laws I am familiar with (MO- RSMo 192.320 )require a person who is being involuntarily detained applies to people with mental issues (Homicidal/suicidal) and even then they are still required to be read the civilian version of Miranda rights (right to a lawyer,. right to go before a judge to challenge the action, right to refuse any medication prior to a court appearance etc). Outside of mental health laws it looks like the authority is derived from the federal government via state health departments.


The Federal government gets its authority for quarantines and isolation from 42 U.S.C. 264 - Regulations to control communicable diseases

Several executive orders over the years have expanded the act to include certain diseases with the latest being the Coronavirus. Even then due process is still required and the government (state and federal) are required to contain the virus thru isolation or quarantine using the least restrictive means possible.


For the conspiracy folk read the Tom Clancy book "Executive Orders". A large plot point deals with a biological attack on the US using weaponized Ebola and the debate on quarantines/isolation/travel bans and the Constitutional, federal and state laws and due process.

There was, and possibly still are, discussions going on with the President that deals with inter and intra state travel bans. Nothing was decided on that topic.

While laws are on the books I dont believe we ever had any situation that required a court to intervene so we are in somewhat uncharted waters.

A question raised in the book is this.

What are we if we ignore our own constitution and laws? They also note the Constitution is not and was never meant to be a suicide pact.

The answer provided -

"Alive"