The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by kerrichin
Anyway, to me, the powerplay seems the most likely of motivations for the crusades and the inquistion. Sain4God, you seem to take more of an issue with Christ being attacked, as well as I do, than the institution of Christianity being attacked. Some will argue that it's one and the same. However,I would tend to disagree.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by kerrichin
Christianity doesn't exactly practice the principles of Jesus Christ. Therefore, that doesn't really equate them well with Christ, in my honest opinion. If a "christian" doesn't perpetuate the teachings of love,compassion and most of all, forgiveness, then in my mind, they don't perpetuate the teachings of Christ. Now, to correlate the attack upon the "christian" or even upon the institution of Christianity with an attack upon Christ himself seems a bit ridiculous to me, especially when one considers that many "christians" and many of the "churches" don't expound the true teachings of Christ.

Whoa hey, before we start making sweeping generalizations, there's something you and I should take into heavy consideration. We both know that not all people (and churches which are made up of people) that claim to be christian are Christian. However, neither you or I are qualified to discern how many or who they truly are. Sure we can see the signs of Christian principles through peace, love, forgiveness, compassion and so forth, but we cannot know what is truly in their heart. That's God's role to know and judge accordingly. Here's an enlightening exercise. Look into the mirror and verbally say all the things you've done wrong. After you've done that, say all the things you could've done right but failed to do. Finally, speak all the wrong thoughts/feelings you've ever had. When those years are over, this exercise of self conviction helps us realize we are all way of the mark of being worthy of the perfect presence of God. A believer then tends to naturally transition in giving thanks to God that these sins past, present and future are forgiven by accepting Christ as our saviour. This is not a license to sin, as who wants to further displease God? But rather an awareness that all of us are hypocrites in one way or another. The difference is we have a model guide to show us the right way. By following that example we at least know the truth, if not how to make it happen.

Okay,I am going to respond sense I am the one who made the comments, not Kerrichin.

However, neither you or I are qualified to discern how many or who they truly are. Sure we can see the signs of Christian principles through peace, love, forgiveness, compassion and so forth, but we cannot know what is truly in their heart.

Well, I can't really argue with that. I suspect that most people who call themselves Christian do the best they can to follow the teachings of Christ. I certainly cannot claim to be a full fledged Christian myself because I have many beliefs that certainly do not fall within the realm of what Christ explicitly taught. So, I probably shouldn't be as harsh as I am at times.

realize we are all way of the mark of being worthy of the perfect presence of God.

You know, that is one of the things that I think will shock many people, at least I believe, I certainly do not claim to know the plan of God... I think many are going to be shocked at just how willing God is to forgive. To some extent, we have been taught just the opposite by many. Many teach that God is all too willing to condemn.. I don't know, I guess we will all see in due time.

Originally posted by kerrichin
Christianity doesn't exactly practice the principles of Jesus Christ. Therefore, that doesn't really equate them well with Christ, in my honest opinion. If a "christian" doesn't perpetuate the teachings of love,compassion and most of all, forgiveness, then in my mind, they don't perpetuate the teachings of Christ. Now, to correlate the attack upon the "christian" or even upon the institution of Christianity with an attack upon Christ himself seems a bit ridiculous to me, especially when one considers that many "christians" and many of the "churches" don't expound the true teachings of Christ.

Lets talk about how as men of Christ we can make a more perfect way, and to truly grow the church that Christ intended.

I believe the path starts within each of us.

Taking a back seat to materialism. Putting community first, and doing for others.

I am reminded of the Believers in the Bible..

Peace


[edit on 28-2-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Okay,I am going to respond sense I am the one who made the comments, not Kerrichin.

Ack! I apologize to both you and Kerrichin for the misquote. It was not intentional. My cut & paste skeels need more proofreading.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, I can't really argue with that. I suspect that most people who call themselves Christian do the best they can to follow the teachings of Christ. I certainly cannot claim to be a full fledged Christian myself because I have many beliefs that certainly do not fall within the realm of what Christ explicitly taught. So, I probably shouldn't be as harsh as I am at times.

No shades of grey here speaker, please don't create them . Here's the litmus test:

Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ, God's one and only son, who died on the cross and rose again to pay the penalty for your sins so that you may have a place in heaven?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
You know, that is one of the things that I think will shock many people, at least I believe, I certainly do not claim to know the plan of God... I think many are going to be shocked at just how willing God is to forgive. To some extent, we have been taught just the opposite by many. Many teach that God is all too willing to condemn.. I don't know, I guess we will all see in due time.

Sure. But there's two important characteristics of God (out of many) that can help us put it into better focus:

We know that God is merciful. The Bible says "God is love" and we like to hear that. From that we get all kinds of great things like hope, compassion and forgiveness.

But, in the same book it states God is just and "he will by no means allow the guilty to go unpunished". So, God loves us but is also holy in perfect justice and must punish sin.

That's where Christ comes into the picture. The man who knew no sin became sin for us. "God had laid on him the iniquity of us all". When he rose from the dead he appeared to show us that indeed his payment was acceptable for those who trusted on him.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by saint4God]

Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ, God's one and only son, who died on the cross and rose again to pay the penalty for your sins so that you may have a place in heaven?

Surely.. I definitely believe he died for man's sins... I personally think that he resurrected as well.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Surely.. I definitely believe he died for man's sins... I personally think that he resurrected as well.

Hello Christian! According to the Word of God, that identifies a believer. One who follows Christ. No matter what anyone says, they cannot change that. To claim otherwise is going against the Word itself:

John 3:16
Romans 10:9 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
John 6:29
John 11:25 "Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;"
John 11:40
John 12:44
John 20:29 "Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
John 20:31
Acts 15:11
Acts 16:31
Galatians 3:22
1 Thessalonians 4:14
1 John 5:1
1 John 5:5

This by no means limits your ability to disagree about other things with other believers...I'd merely caution to not lead observers astray of the good news and recognize you'll be seeing those fellow believers again.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Lets talk about how as men of Christ we can make a more perfect way, and to truly grow the church that Christ intended.

I believe the path starts within each of us.

Taking a back seat to materialism. Putting community first, and doing for others.

I am reminded of the Believers in the Bible..

Peace

Division is a first tactic in an anti-Christian conspiracy.

I think you'd do excellent for unity in the Church. Had you considered perhaps taking a position in a church?

[edit on 1-3-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Division is a first tactic in an anti-Christian conspiracy.[edit on 1-3-2007 by saint4God]

I have seen the tactic of divide and conquer used by the Christian conquerers, invaders, and rulers for a very long time. If the people are fighting each other, they won't rise up against their oppressors. Illuminati came up a while back... what are they all about? I don't see any proof they even exist. I do see numerous books speculating of their alleged membership list, and secret plots, which are never supported by any solid evidence. Christian peoples, nations which were strongly and vociferously claiming to be following Christ have spent millenia exploiting, manipulating, and oppressing the conquered peoples that they had invaded and took control over. In my view, it is understandable there will be some backlash to be dealt with and some vengeful actions to be expected. If Christ had been in charge of the many European forces which profitted throughout every part of the world, at the expense of the local non-Christians, would Christ have been so cunningly and efficiently destructive as they were when they were acting in his name? In China, would the opium wars have been okayed by Christ? Christian nobles got rich from forcing the Chinese to let them sell their cheaper opium when the Chinese tried to stop them. But of course free trade is good, and stopping the Europeans from selling opium in China is not free trade. How about the Americas? The record of the genocidal activities that Christian invaders committed is long indeed.
How can anyone imagine no one would protest, and fight back, as some groups now are doing. Of course they will, unless you kill them all, and that didn't happen. Almost, but not quite. It is not right to seek revenge, but it can be counted on that some people will do so. Your only hope is to convince the survivors of your terrible criminal treatment, abuse, and exploitation that you no longer see them as inferior, and fair game for profitting however you can. Christian people can not repay the people who they have destroyed, never. Not a chance. But, they can make a concerted effort to restore a balance. That means giving back a lot more than the pittance now being praised as being generous, selfless charitable help. What I mean is more like immediately making it critical to stop the millions of starvation deaths now happening. Between 25 000 and 80 000 kids are said to starve to death every day. If it is the minimum, and just 25 000 a day, that is horrible. It is unnecessary, easily ended, and imho, criminal. How do we live with ourselves? The 1 trillion dollar global military budget could spare a few billion to end this shame. The Christian nations such as Canada and Australia are often praised for their kindness, yet Canada declared that Natives were actually 'persons' and allowed the same rights as whites in 1960. How can I believe that 1959 Canadians were so dumb as to not know they were persons? It is improbable in the extreme, and I feel clearly a case of oppression, discrimination, and a superiority complex. Australia deemed the Aboriginal people as being part of the flora and fauna until it was voted on in a referendum that they were actually people in, get this, 1967!! Wow, were they stupid to not know that earlier, eh? Payback's a bitc*. Even it up y'all.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I have seen the tactic of divide and conquer used by the Christian conquerers,

"Christian conquerer" is an oxymoron.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
invaders,

So is this one.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
and rulers for a very long time. If the people are fighting each other, they won't rise up against their oppressors. Illuminati came up a while back... what are they all about? I don't see any proof they even exist. I do see numerous books speculating of their alleged membership list, and secret plots, which are never supported by any solid evidence.

Dunno about Illuminati. My only exposure has been on ATS and agree it is sketchy at best.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Christian peoples, nations which were strongly and vociferously claiming to be following Christ have spent millenia exploiting, manipulating, and oppressing the conquered peoples that they had invaded and took control over.

Then they're not really following Christ, are they?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In my view, it is understandable there will be some backlash to be dealt with and some vengeful actions to be expected.

I disagree. I don't see anything in Scripture that justifies a Christian taking vengence. In fact, "Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord." Therefore if we as people take revenge, we're stealing from God.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
If Christ had been in charge of the many European forces which profitted throughout every part of the world, at the expense of the local non-Christians, would Christ have been so cunningly and efficiently destructive as they were when they were acting in his name?

What lands and people did Christ conquer and oppress?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In China, would the opium wars have been okayed by Christ?

What does scripture say about self control? Drunkeness? These answers are already there.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Christian nobles got rich from forcing the Chinese to let them sell their cheaper opium when the Chinese tried to stop them. But of course free trade is good, and stopping the Europeans from selling opium in China is not free trade. How about the Americas? The record of the genocidal activities that Christian invaders committed is long indeed.

All there, in the book.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
How can anyone imagine no one would protest, and fight back, as some groups now are doing. Of course they will, unless you kill them all, and that didn't happen. Almost, but not quite. It is not right to seek revenge, but it can be counted on that some people will do so. Your only hope is to convince the survivors of your terrible criminal treatment, abuse, and exploitation that you no longer see them as inferior, and fair game for profitting however you can. Christian people can not repay the people who they have destroyed, never. Not a chance. But, they can make a concerted effort to restore a balance. That means giving back a lot more than the pittance now being praised as being generous, selfless charitable help. What I mean is more like immediately making it critical to stop the millions of starvation deaths now happening. Between 25 000 and 80 000 kids are said to starve to death every day. If it is the minimum, and just 25 000 a day, that is horrible. It is unnecessary, easily ended, and imho, criminal. How do we live with ourselves? The 1 trillion dollar global military budget could spare a few billion to end this shame. The Christian nations such as Canada and Australia are often praised for their kindness, yet Canada declared that Natives were actually 'persons' and allowed the same rights as whites in 1960. How can I believe that 1959 Canadians were so dumb as to not know they were persons? It is improbable in the extreme, and I feel clearly a case of oppression, discrimination, and a superiority complex. Australia deemed the Aboriginal people as being part of the flora and fauna until it was voted on in a referendum that they were actually people in, get this, 1967!! Wow, were they stupid to not know that earlier, eh? Payback's a bitc*. Even it up y'all.

I think you're getting those who claim to be christian with those who are Christian. It matters not, as people are not the model for a perfect follower of God. Christ is the model perfect. Humans have always been prone to their sins. It sounds like you're expecting Christians to swoop in an solve the world's problems. It's a romantic thought, though very unrealistic. If it were true, there'd be no need for God.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by saint4God]

Double murder of Christians, shot execution-style, satanic markings found...

www.foxnews.com.../031107_lineup_clues&The_Lineup&Killer%20Clues&acc&Law%20Center&-1&News&331&&&new



[edit on 12-3-2007 by saint4God]

saint, an isolated killing does not a conspiracy make. and satanic symbols, well i'd talk about that if the video was working (next time give us a heads up on it being anything but textual if you would)

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
saint, an isolated killing does not a conspiracy make.

Tip of the iceberg of the group I had explained earlier. And, I'd like to see your data on why this is isolated. I have testimony that they weren't, but are rather well-concealed. Clues aren't typically left. If they are, they're not usually easily recognized or understood by outsiders.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and satanic symbols, well i'd talk about that if the video was working

It's working for me. Not sure what program it runs off of.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
(next time give us a heads up on it being anything but textual if you would)

Apologies, I didn't realize it was a problem.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by saint4God]

double murder.. satanic symbols..

biiiiig conspiracy here..

Originally posted by shaunybaby
double murder.. satanic symbols..

biiiiig conspiracy here..

Originally posted by saint4God
It isn't. Most murders don't leave a trail. Where is it written that those who commit conspiracy must be stupid enough to be traced?

Surely most murders leave a trail or clue?

Whether that clue/trail is an obvious satanic symbol or a hidden piece of forensic evidence, there's often a trail.

Just because satanic symbols were left at the scene of the crime, this doesn't make it a hate crime. It's not certain that the killer/s knew his/her/their victims, and it's not certain that he/she/they knew their victims were christian.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
and it's not certain that he/she/they knew their victims were christian.

and then there's the statistics. pick 10 people at random and you'll get 7-8 christians. it's not like trying would be required to kill someone and have it end up being a christian

6.5 billion people in the world. 2.5 billion Christians.

Somehow your math just doesn't add up...

BlackGuard XIII,

You should find the information on
the link in my signature enlightening,
as regards the Illuminati. My guest
last night was a former member of the
OTO, which is referred to by many as
the Illuminati. Jack Parsons, who was
one of the founders of Jet Propulsion
Laboratories, followed in the footsteps of
Aleister Crowley (founder of the OTO) and
did what he referred to as the Babalon
Working, a sex magic ritual in which a rip in
space was supposedly opened and threw
which a being similar to Crowley's "Lam"
entered. If you've ever seen "Lam" ,
it's supposedly an entity Crowley summoned
during the Almantra Working (similar to
the Babalon Working, just many decades
before), which looks like a Grey alien,
but is actually composed of the
parts of human sexual organs.

Anyway, the being known as "Babalon"
was summoned to inhabit the body of a
child that would esssentially be the Antichrist.
Later, Parsons wrote a document called
"The Manifesto of the Antichrist".
Most of this information is available to
hear and/or read on the site in my signature.
The interview with the former OTO member,
is linked at the top. An free online book
about Jack Parsons murder investigation,
is also linked near the top. Further down
in the article, are two more links with information.

Don't be too quick to discount every
conspiracy you hear. Consider, this Parsons
guy was one of the founders of JPL and yet,
here we find him writing "The Manifesto of the
Antichrist." He and L. Ron Hubbard (The
founder of Scientology) were working on these
things together, in fact Hubbard was present
for the Babalon Working.

Lots of big names, most of them passed away,
but their legacy remains

[edit on 24-3-2007 by undo]

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
6.5 billion people in the world. 2.5 billion Christians.

Somehow your math just doesn't add up...

my math adds up if you don't look at the world and look at the country where the murders took place.

Originally posted by shaunybaby


Surely most murders leave a trail or clue?

I`d say yes they do as well.

Following the line of thought Undo posted above,people in secret societies,elite people in the media, judicial system,law enforcement,government etc have power to cover things up.

A member of the OTO here on ATS has stated they seek high members of society to join their org.Masons have very influential people as well.

Thats not saying, all that belong to these orgs do etc.But theres opportunities to cover trails.

In England a year or so a go (guessing there) there was a big noise made about for judges in your country to come clean on whether they belong to the masons or not,if I remember correctly the judges rights for privacy won out,though again not sure.

Back scratching because of secret modes of recognition was the cause for concern.

OTO and ....
The Book Of Law

Aleister Crowley

III,43: Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered.

III,44: But let her raise herself in pride! Let her follow me in my way! Let her work the work of wickedness! Let her kill her heart! Let her be loud and adulterous; let her be covered with jewels, and rich garments, and let her be shameless befor e all men!

III,45: Then will I lift her to pinnacles of power: then will I breed from her a child mightier than all the kings of the earth. I will fill her with joy: with my force shall she see & strike at the worship of Nu: she shall achieve Hadit.
The Book Of Law

From these words Crowely is talking about his wife (so I was told) it sounds to me that his goal was to bring about,what I would consider the Antichrist.

From the same link above.

III,24: The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.

On the topic of their blood sacrifices.This taken from one of Crowley's writing on MAGICK in Theory and Practice,in the link supplied,they give explanations of what these words mean,because of the obvious misinterpretations they say that people have done.

It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and devour them while yet warm. In any case it was the theory of the ancient Magicians, that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal, and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly.

The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony --- thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was invoking Mars. In such a case a ram would be more suitable. And this ram should be virgin --- the whole potential of its original total energy should not have been diminished in any way.For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim.

www.hermetic.com...

Its been said by those in the know here on ATS that the word blood is representitive of semen.

Now many types of people read these writings along with the Book of Law as I`ve noticed here on ATS so I can only assume a great many more read or study them in general and I can easily see some people taking these words to mean literally as they appear.If in fact they do or dont as to their true intention?Crowley a beast of a man imo and also took on the label with delight and even skimming the Book of Law its not hard to see why he`s referred to as the beast.

Another side note that maybe interesting is the cover of the Beatles album which shows Crowley as one of their favorites,in the top row second from the left.here
Imagine that (pun intended)

As Undo stated above about trying to bringing forth the Antichrist,this could be real imo to whats happening here and in the world,for those stories (saints link didn`t work for me either?) that do make it to the media, may very well seem ridiculous to claim an Antichristian agenda as a whole,without seeing more of the whole and how deep it can go.

Originally posted by gps777
A member of the OTO here on ATS has stated they seek high members of society to join their org.

Are you referring to the post I made? (BTW I am not a member of the O.T.O.) The quotes I posted are from a document that the O.T.O. has never really been able to live up to. In fact parts of the current schism in O.T.O. land revolve are the O.T.O.'s lack of ability to "live up" to what is called the "Blue Equinox model" (The book that and related documents were published in).

From these words Crowely is talking about his wife (so I was told) it sounds to me that his goal was to bring about,what I would consider the Antichrist.

A technical point. Crowley was not the "author" of the Book of the Law. It was what is called a received text that was dictated to him from a "supernatural" entity.

In III,43 Crowley felt it was referring to Rose, and the "I will slay me her child" part referred to the death of his daughter.

In III,44 & III,45 Crowley took to refer to the "office" of the Scarlet Woman and not just Rose.

Its been said by those in the know here on ATS that the word blood is representitive of semen.

Or more correctly sexual fluids in general (This counts "Blood of the Moon" as a sexual in nature)

Now many types of people read these writings along with the Book of Law as I`ve noticed here on ATS so I can only assume a great many more read or study them in general and I can easily see some people taking these words to mean literally as they appear.If in fact they do or dont as to their true intention?

Honestly that is not a fault of the book or the author. Some people are just messed up. Some people do some real sick things because of the way they understand the Bible.. it's not the Bibles fault.

As Undo stated above about trying to bringing forth the Antichrist,this could be real imo

In reference to the info Undo posted.. it's really can't be the anti-Christ. as one could say it's also the anti-Allah, the anti-Buddha, the anti-whatever. In a nut shell, one of the more basic ideas of Thelema is that mankind has "grown-up" and no longer needs a father figure type of god who tells his children what to do and not to do. Mankind is now old enough to have some responsibility for their own actions and choose what is best for them.

[edit on 3/25/2007 by Cug]