The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by osram
Blablablabla. *yawn*

I always am amused by people who say something like this and have plenty of "blablablabla" themselves. As for the rest of the post, thank you for illustrating the topic "The Anti-Christian Conspiracy". It speaks for itself.

Saint4God, I agreed with most of your post. At least the parts that stressed that many who claim to be "christian" don't really follow the prinicples as taught by Christ,which is one of the problems that I have with the institution of Christianity. In that respect you and I certainly do agree.

However, you asked a question, and I have an answer

Saint4God asked:

So then, if the motivation of the crusades is not for Christ and God biblically speaking, what then was the motivation of the crusades?

How about power? What most don't realize is that both Christianity and Islam were in a power grab. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how one wishes to look at it, both sides got their piece of the pie.

Now, the "church" of that era went about their business fighting muslims and killing so-called "heretics," all in the name of power,wealth and control. That indeed was the motivation of the crusades.

Now, the question is, why should Christians of today be held accountale. Well, I personally don't think they should. However, they, nor the Muslims are entitled to call themselves "peace loving" religions when their history declares otherwise. As far as people blaming the current constituiency of these religions for that... no, I don't think that is right either.

However, if one forgets the past they are condemned to repeat it. If one looks at the present world condition now, it reverts once again to a power grab by Islam and Christianity. You have a Muslim, Osama bin Laden, who would love nothing more than for the world to revert back to 7th century customs when Islam was very powerful. Then you have Christian fundamentalists who believe with every fiber of their being that it is their duty to fight Islam or any other belief system that doesn't agree with them. It's all an effort to gain more power and control.

That is just my two cents on this whole issue.

127 pages later and ya'll still being oppressed? Dayum.

Originally posted by RANT
127 pages later and ya'll still being oppressed? Dayum.

just what i was thinking

after being on here for a while, i'm going to assume most ATSrs come from areas where CHRISTIANITY is the most prominent religion

now, how can these people see a conspiracy against christianity when it is practically shoveled down the throats of people of other faiths every day?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

So then, if the motivation of the crusades is not for Christ and God biblically speaking, what then was the motivation of the crusades?

How about power?

Hehe, I put it out there as a rhetorical question since I provided an answer after it, but certainly welcome another perspective of it. On the link, it did list theory #2 as a powerplay by the papacy. Although this is less likely in my mind as the primary reason (because you'd have to have a lot of blind faith by royalty), it is a good one. It should also been noted then too, that the acquisition of power is also not a Christian principle either.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What most don't realize is that both Christianity and Islam were in a power grab. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how one wishes to look at it, both sides got their piece of the pie.

Now, the "church" of that era went about their business fighting muslims and killing so-called "heretics," all in the name of power,wealth and control. That indeed was the motivation of the crusades.

Yes. Not in the name of Christ.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Then you have Christian fundamentalists who believe with every fiber of their being that it is their duty to fight Islam or any other belief system that doesn't agree with them. It's all an effort to gain more power and control.

In this case they'd be "christian" fundamentalists as believers engaging in combat is not a Christian principle.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
That is just my two cents on this whole issue.

Much enjoyed reading it and the perspective.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
now, how can these people see a conspiracy against christianity when it is practically shoveled down the throats of people of other faiths every day?

Can you be more specific?

Part of seeing a conspiracy while being in a majority requires an objective viewpoint. Thoughtful consideration tells us we don't have to "touch the pot to know that it is hot", though the skeptic in me causes me to get burned from time to time.

Originally posted by saint4God
Can you be more specific?

well, specifically in the USA, just turn on the TV
the history channel has constant specials on jesus or the bible
the national geographic channel follows suit
religion is in the news as well, with every call for reinstating class prayer, adding of the 10 commandments to the classroom or any other government building, creationism being asked for in schools, or calling for the bible to become a part of the curriculum

and saint,
i just don't see where non-christians are trying to insidiously undermine christianity

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
well, specifically in the USA, just turn on the TV
the history channel

The History Channel does not have a Christian agenda. Nor does it have an objective viewpoint. I think it would do us both well to not take what it says as "gospel truth".

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
has constant specials on jesus or the bible

The question is, what is it doing with these specials? It takes sharp eye and study, not just superficial glance and eating whatever comes out of the tube...unless you truly believe that Moses was a brilliant military strategist who defeated pharoah's army by mere wit .

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the national geographic channel follows suit

National geographic doctors (and I mean alter the reality, not just brightness & contrast) photos to fit what it wants to portray. I'd not trust them as a reliable source either.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
religion is in the news as well, with every call for reinstating class prayer, adding of the 10 commandments to the classroom or any other government building, creationism being asked for in schools, or calling for the bible to become a part of the curriculum

The news sells what people are buying. The blame then falls to the people. If nobody cared or watched it, they would not show it.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and saint,
i just don't see where non-christians are trying to insidiously undermine christianity

I did not say the massive umbrella term non-Christians at any point and intentionally so.

[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by osram
Blablablabla. *yawn*

I always am amused by people who say something like this and have plenty of "blablablabla" themselves. As for the rest of the post, thank you for illustrating the topic "The Anti-Christian Conspiracy". It speaks for itself.

I am never amused when people with blurred views aren't even able to read and comprehend moderate amounts of truth.

Probably you did not even read my post.. or watch anything from Tsarion?

What do you mean by illustrating the topic, or what do you mean by it speaks for itself? Ignorant sarcasm? - Or are you being honest?

Well I'm sorry to "offend" you, if that is the case, my christian friend. But i wouldn't even dare to define myself as christian anymore, if i knew only a little bit of the "christian" way.

About "Christian Conspiracy".. so to speak. Why would there be Anti-Christian Conspiracy, if Christianism wasn part of the "Conspiracy"?

I mean you are answering your own question with the question, somehow. Maybe Tsorian's video helps a bit on the path to enlightment.

Originally posted by osram
I am never amused when people with blurred views aren't even able to read and comprehend moderate amounts of truth.

I agree.

Originally posted by osram
Probably you did not even read my post.. or watch anything from Tsarion?

I did read your post and watched about a half hour of the video as I could. According to the video, our government is servant of the Vatican, The Illuminati, the British Empire, Freemasons, The Media, Skull and bones, Egyptian Cults etc. which are all bloodline aristocrats that will cause the destruction of the world starting with 9/11...which is our own government's doing. "They will inflict death on women, children and cows." Cows? Yep, "the cows milkless". He uses a lot of words like "I" and "my research" with plenty of "resources" available for sale. Don't forget to buy the DVD! 2012 is the date of his retirement, because after that he's out of a job. That's my prediction, dare to refute it.

Unfortunately none of these ideas are new to ATS.

Originally posted by osram
What do you mean by illustrating the topic, or what do you mean by it speaks for itself? Ignorant sarcasm? - Or are you being honest?

Honest.

Originally posted by osram
Well I'm sorry to "offend" you,

When you've read more of my posts perhaps you'll see I'm a hard one to offend.

Originally posted by osram
if that is the case, my christian friend. But i wouldn't even dare to define myself as christian anymore, if i knew only a little bit of the "christian" way.

Call yourself what you will. It is an individual right we all have.

Originally posted by osram
About "Christian Conspiracy".. so to speak. Why would there be Anti-Christian Conspiracy, if Christianism wasn part of the "Conspiracy"?

You don't need a conspiracy to make a conspiracy. This is a cyclical argument without reason.

Originally posted by osram
I mean you are answering your own question with the question, somehow. Maybe Tsorian's video helps a bit on the path to enlightment.

Can you provide a relevant summary? I have a report due tomorrow so I don't have 3 hr 24 min 48 sec handy at the moment. Or, may I ask you to read the book of Matthew start to finish as comparable time spent learning about each other?

[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

saint, my points about the media were the prevalence of religion in society
not the prevalence of doctrine

Originally posted by saint4God

I did not say the massive umbrella term non-Christians at any point and intentionally so.

[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

2 things
1: who else would be able to perpetuate an anti-christian conspiracy?
2: you're dodging the issue of where the proof of this supposed conspiracy is

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
saint, my points about the media were the prevalence of religion in society
not the prevalence of doctrine

I'm still unclear on how the prevalence of religion in society is akin to having "religion shoved down your throat". It's a better discussion for the "Absolute Power of Christianity" thread where is it reviewed at great length, but if you want to veer off-topic a little, I don't mind.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
2 things
1: who else would be able to perpetuate an anti-christian conspiracy?

Not all non-christians are anti-christian (I'm sure you'd find there's a lot more non-christians than anti-christians). Non means "not". Anti means "against".

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
2: you're dodging the issue of where the proof of this supposed conspiracy is

Negative friend, I spent pages upon pages talking about it. Which proofs that I've mentioned would you like to discuss in greater detail? Shall we re-review the Satanists? Or talk more about the athiests in the Bolshevik Revolution who killed clergy and people who professed faith? I'd mentioned a lot more, but those are most recent and more prominent.

[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

Well what about the people who are artificially misinterpreted, discredited, or killed... for unveiling thruths of the so called "bible" and being too public?

And if you do not dare to watch more than 30 mins. because you want to ignore the answers to your own questions it's your own problem. Ignorance is always self-inducted.

You know a long time i have thought to be an atheist, or antagonist.. or whatever you want to call it. But somehow there have been things happening once in a while. Little things, now and then.. so when becoming a bit more mature, and getting closer to myself.. i realized there was something else, but i simply did not realize what it could be.

Since a very short time, i can actually understand why there are christians, and why they actually believe in what is told 'em. Tsarion might be wrong about 2012, or maybe it will really happen. No one knows. Maybe it's just part of the conspiracy, bringing up an End-of-Days scenario every couple of years.. to "win time".. because some people get even more confused. People don't know their goal anyway, so such beliefs can be really distracting.

But one thing is sure. Even if some of it is not true, or very spiritual. Not comprehensible/measurable; No scientist or discoverer was ever 100% right about all of what they said. Where they? I mean we are not perfect at all.

You cannot deny the facts which Tsarion is digging up. You can't deny the symbols being shown and desacrated in the corporate, and high-ranked world.. every single day. You cannot deny that the elite likes to be cloaked, but they also like to tell us what is going on. To feed their sadism. For humiliation, and spitting in our faces every single day. They are evidently keeping us traumatized, and pressing us down mentally, if it is not by bombs or bullets.

You can't deny the symbols, meanings and truths which had been discovered long BEFORE christian religion.. or even the muslim religion. I believe that both of these contain good things, but being "abused" and modified.. so that the "word of god" cannot be read properly anymore.. by the big mass at least. And look at the preachers. Look at the american churches for instance. They are crazy! They have churches which are so huge and full of electrical light, you feel like being in between some E.T. Movie and a fictional, sensational movie about the "House of God". Perfect.

How wonderful those luxurious buildings, built on the blood of others. Which after all is true. You can't deny the facts, unless you ignore all the things you dont want to see. Unless you ignore 80% of the things around you.

And i tell you one little vision of mine: I was carrying around quite a big snake with me. I already knew snakes in RL.. also carried or touched unpoisonous ones. But normally in dreams snakes bite you, and you try to evade em.. and are very afraid.

This time I was being proud of carrying it amonst grocery shops.. amongst people. I wasn't afraid. I felt very enlightened in my dream. In the next scene i am suddenly playing "soccer" with many people in a huge park. The snake is still with me. And i know something is going to happen:

In the next scene i see the snake on the floor and someone is going to stand on it's head, because he doesnt see it. It's too late to yell at him.. he wounds the snake's head.

I can see the snake's head somewhat injured, or disformed. I feel alot of pitty, for having the snake amongst all the other people, even if they were not afraid. No one talked to me.. Nor could i give a message to anyone. After all it was plain useless taking the snake to the people.

I pick the snake up. It's wounded and angry. I know it is going to bite me. But in my dream, i was only physically afraid. Did not defend myself or try to get it off me. I let it bite into my hand, hanging around along my arm. I let its fangs sink deep into my flesh.. and I knew it was her right. I knew it was her right to sink into me, because it was me/humans who caused her pain.

Now does that dream tell you anything?

I think the most general misconception of the snake in christian religion is the position of seducing Adam/Eve to eat the apple. Now if you dig further into Ancient Religions and Astrology you will realize that most probably this "message" is completely distorted.. or even inversed.

In Ancient times, the snake is a signal of transformation. It's a symbol of healing, of the subconscious preparedness to change and improve oneself.
It's a symbol for "DNA".. and a symbol of knowledge and truth.

Now you can see the snake in medical symbols alot. But in the bible.. it's often "described" as bad. Now why is that? Could it be desinformation?

And i just want to say. I had that dream on the night before (!) i watched the Tsarion movie about the symbols and snakes. In fact i did not remember the dream until I was watching the movie. So it has alot of importance to me. And i really believe that many people would understand much more, if they learned about the Spiritual and Historical world being hidden from us.

im a self confessed anti religioner because of many reasons

1/ war- 99% of wars can always be linked to war.
2/ all religions are anti women and animas but my veiw is we are all equal men/women, animals, and color.
3/its just another way for people to control other people.
4/ most of the world misery and suffering come from religion eg witch trials, spanish inquishion, magdalen sisters terrorism just to name a few.

but this doent mean i dont believe in god or gods i do believe there is something out there but i think religion stems from men wanting to control the masses.

i know that some people on here will have a o at my post being anti christian/ anti islam what ever but i feel that will just prove my point.

you dont believe what i belive so your wrong theory that is so pravalent in all religion.

ill aso add im very open minded to other poeples views and respect there beliefs i have muslim, catholic, and prodastent friends i just ask them not to try and convert me or make me feel like ive some how sinned for something trivial

[edit on 28-2-2007 by kerrichin]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

So then, if the motivation of the crusades is not for Christ and God biblically speaking, what then was the motivation of the crusades?

How about power?

Hehe, I put it out there as a rhetorical question since I provided an answer after it, but certainly welcome another perspective of it. On the link, it did list theory #2 as a powerplay by the papacy. Although this is less likely in my mind as the primary reason (because you'd have to have a lot of blind faith by royalty), it is a good one. It should also been noted then too, that the acquisition of power is also not a Christian principle either.

:shk: I guess I would have known that if I would have bothered to click on the link you provided. For whatever reason, I have a tendency to just respond to what a poster puts on the board, often I don't read the links they provide. :shk: Unfortunately, that seems to be a trend amongst many of us ATSer's. I don't know if it's due to being lazy, or just an unwillingness to change perspective.

Anyway, to me, the powerplay seems the most likely of motivations for the crusades and the inquistion. Sain4God, you seem to take more of an issue with Christ being attacked, as well as I do, than the institution of Christianity being attacked. Some will argue that it's one and the same. However,I would tend to disagree.

Christianity doesn't exactly practice the principles of Jesus Christ. Therefore, that doesn't really equate them well with Christ, in my honest opinion. If a "christian" doesn't perpetuate the teachings of love,compassion and most of all, forgiveness, then in my mind, they don't perpetuate the teachings of Christ. Now, to correlate the attack upon the "christian" or even upon the institution of Christianity with an attack upon Christ himself seems a bit ridiculous to me, especially when one considers that many "christians" and many of the "churches" don't expound the true teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by osram
Well what about the people who are artificially misinterpreted, discredited, or killed... for unveiling thruths of the so called "bible" and being too public?

What about those people? Why depend on people when we can read it for ourselves?

Originally posted by osram
And if you do not dare to watch more than 30 mins. because you want to ignore the answers to your own questions it's your own problem. Ignorance is always self-inducted.

I had to write "The Parthenon as Patromony" due by 6pm tonight. I also have a rather long article to review by then so time is ticking for me. I'll "dare" to watch the other 3 hours if you'll read the book of Matthew. Again, I repeat, there's nothing new on the video.

Originally posted by osram
You know a long time i have thought to be an atheist, or antagonist.. or whatever you want to call it. But somehow there have been things happening once in a while. Little things, now and then.. so when becoming a bit more mature, and getting closer to myself.. i realized there was something else, but i simply did not realize what it could be.

For example?

Originally posted by osram
Since a very short time, i can actually understand why there are christians, and why they actually believe in what is told 'em. Tsarion might be wrong about 2012, or maybe it will really happen. No one knows.

Thanks what he's $banking$ on. If he were psychic, he needs to tell us what will happen on Friday in great detail. Then when it happens letter for letter, he may gain some sort of repect from some people.

Originally posted by osram
Maybe it's just part of the conspiracy, bringing up an End-of-Days scenario every couple of years.. to "win time".. because some people get even more confused. People don't know their goal anyway, so such beliefs can be really distracting.

My parents had a book called 1984 with a mushroom cloud on the cover. The details are laughable today.

Originally posted by osram
But one thing is sure. Even if some of it is not true, or very spiritual. Not comprehensible/measurable; No scientist or discoverer was ever 100% right about all of what they said. Where they? I mean we are not perfect at all.

Excuses. In biblical times if a prophet was wrong once, he was not a prophet.

Originally posted by osram
You cannot deny the facts which Tsarion is digging up. You can't deny the symbols being shown and desacrated in the corporate, and high-ranked world.. every single day. You cannot deny that the elite likes to be cloaked, but they also like to tell us what is going on. To feed their sadism. For humiliation, and spitting in our faces every single day. They are evidently keeping us traumatized, and pressing us down mentally, if it is not by bombs or bullets.

A topic for another thread.

Originally posted by osram
You can't deny the symbols, meanings and truths which had been discovered long BEFORE christian religion.. or even the muslim religion. I believe that both of these contain good things, but being "abused" and modified.. so that the "word of god" cannot be read properly anymore.. by the big mass at least. And look at the preachers. Look at the american churches for instance. They are crazy! They have churches which are so huge and full of electrical light, you feel like being in between some E.T. Movie and a fictional, sensational movie about the "House of God". Perfect. How wonderful those luxurious buildings, built on the blood of others. Which after all is true. You can't deny the facts, unless you ignore all the things you dont want to see. Unless you ignore 80% of the things around you.

Mkay, this is proof that reinforces the topic. Thank you for that.

Originally posted by osram
I let it bite into my hand, hanging around along my arm. I let its fangs sink deep into my flesh.. and I knew it was her right. I knew it was her right to sink into me, because it was me/humans who caused her pain.

Now does that dream tell you anything?

That you care for snakes more than people?

Originally posted by osram
I think the most general misconception of the snake in christian religion is the position of seducing Adam/Eve to eat the apple. Now if you dig further into Ancient Religions and Astrology you will realize that most probably this "message" is completely distorted.. or even inversed.

In Ancient times, the snake is a signal of transformation. It's a symbol of healing, of the subconscious preparedness to change and improve oneself.
It's a symbol for "DNA".. and a symbol of knowledge and truth.

Well it's a good thing I spent the last 5 years of college learning about the symbol of knowledge and truth. Maybe all the loans are worth it.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say all snakes are the devil. What did Moses staff turn into at opposition of pharoah?

Originally posted by osram
Now you can see the snake in medical symbols alot.

Do you know why?

Originally posted by osram
But in the bible.. it's often "described" as bad. Now why is that? Could it be desinformation?

The Bible does not qualify snakes as evil.

Originally posted by osram
And i just want to say. I had that dream on the night before (!) i watched the Tsarion movie about the symbols and snakes. In fact i did not remember the dream until I was watching the movie. So it has alot of importance to me.

And therefore is true?

Originally posted by osram
And i really believe that many people would understand much more, if they learned about the Spiritual and Historical world being hidden from us.

On this we agree.

Okay, just to clarify this.... this is way off topic, but the symbol of the snake is traditionally meant to represent wisdom, not evil. ...Just to clarify.

Originally posted by kerrichin
im a self confessed anti religioner because of many reasons

1/ war- 99% of wars can always be linked to war.

I'll be even bolder and say 100% of wars can always be linked to war.

Originally posted by kerrichin
2/ all religions are anti women and animas but my veiw is we are all equal men/women, animals, and color.

This is false. Some religions worship women. Others worship animals. Some see the value in all of them since we're all God's creatures.

Originally posted by kerrichin
3/its just another way for people to control other people.

Booga booga booga, look into my eyes...

Originally posted by kerrichin
4/ most of the world misery and suffering come from religion eg witch trials, spanish inquishion, magdalen sisters terrorism just to name a few.

World misery comes from greed, imperialism, land acquisition, power, money, and social status. Religion is the excuse to hide the truth.

Originally posted by kerrichin
but this doent mean i dont believe in god or gods i do believe there is something out there but i think religion stems from men wanting to control the masses.

As evidence of all the Christian programming on prime time television

Originally posted by kerrichin
i know that some people on here will have a o at my post being anti christian/ anti islam what ever but i feel that will just prove my point.

you dont believe what i belive so your wrong theory that is so pravalent in all religion.

That's a bit of a hasty generalization, isn't it?

Originally posted by kerrichin
ill aso add im very open minded to other poeples views and respect there beliefs i have muslim, catholic, and prodastent friends i just ask them not to try and convert me or make me feel like ive some how sinned for something trivial

This dialogue will be a good test of it.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by kerrichin
im a self confessed anti religioner because of many reasons

1/ war- 99% of wars can always be linked to war.

I'll be even bolder and say 100% of wars can always be linked to war.

Yeah,I had to giggle to myself when I read that. I mean, obviously we all know what he meant, but

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
:shk: I guess I would have known that if I would have bothered to click on the link you provided.

No worries, I'd rather hear what you have to say than a link anyday. It shows an interest in thinking instead of consuming so I appreciate that.

Originally posted by kerrichin
Anyway, to me, the powerplay seems the most likely of motivations for the crusades and the inquistion. Sain4God, you seem to take more of an issue with Christ being attacked, as well as I do, than the institution of Christianity being attacked. Some will argue that it's one and the same. However,I would tend to disagree.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by kerrichin
Christianity doesn't exactly practice the principles of Jesus Christ. Therefore, that doesn't really equate them well with Christ, in my honest opinion. If a "christian" doesn't perpetuate the teachings of love,compassion and most of all, forgiveness, then in my mind, they don't perpetuate the teachings of Christ. Now, to correlate the attack upon the "christian" or even upon the institution of Christianity with an attack upon Christ himself seems a bit ridiculous to me, especially when one considers that many "christians" and many of the "churches" don't expound the true teachings of Christ.

Whoa hey, before we start making sweeping generalizations, there's something you and I should take into heavy consideration. We both know that not all people (and churches which are made up of people) that claim to be christian are Christian. However, neither you or I are qualified to discern how many or who they truly are. Sure we can see the signs of Christian principles through peace, love, forgiveness, compassion and so forth, but we cannot know what is truly in their heart. That's God's role to know and judge accordingly. Here's an enlightening exercise. Look into the mirror and verbally say all the things you've done wrong. After you've done that, say all the things you could've done right but failed to do. Finally, speak all the wrong thoughts/feelings you've ever had. When those years are over, this exercise of self conviction helps us realize we are all way of the mark of being worthy of the perfect presence of God. A believer then tends to naturally transition in giving thanks to God that these sins past, present and future are forgiven by accepting Christ as our saviour. This is not a license to sin, as who wants to further displease God? But rather an awareness that all of us are hypocrites in one way or another. The difference is we have a model guide to show us the right way. By following that example we at least know the truth, if not how to make it happen.