California Public Schools Can’t Suspend Students For Disobeying Teachers

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Sookiechacha
Are you assuming that every time a kid is suspended for "disobedience", it's because he simply looked cross-eyed at the teacher while black?

Why do you keep making this about race? Disobedience alone isn't reason enough, in my opinion, to suspend a 1st through 5th grader.

The law in question makes it about race.

What do you tell a teacher who has the kid who will not sit down, will not stop talking and/or yelling? Both of those things are "simple disobedience" and if the child simply will not comply, then no other child can learn in that room. Of course, there is no violence or destruction involved. So I guess no one gets anything done, right?

Actually they are not always acts of “simple disobedience”.. more often than not these children have a learning disability or other condition which prevents them from controlling their impulses properly. With guidance and encouragement they can be taught self awareness and self discipline. Yes.. often they need to be removed from the classroom by the special ed assistant and helped through their issues until they can produce better behaviour.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Boadicea

I'd never suspend a kid, I almost never even discipline them. It's unnecessary for the most part.

It does require me to have a brain and positive Spirit - but I've never met a kid I can't immediately reach - and convince them to behave. I just know how to talk to them.

It's complex tho so of course I don't expect California grade school teachers to be capable of this basic instinct.

They'd need a brain to know how to handle kids. That's asking too much.

From my experience they respond very well to teachers who are fair and show compassion and respect for them.

Exactly. By understanding and respecting them and being fair.

It does take effort to care about a kid and help them, but it's the only way to truly educate them. By caring enough to take a lil extra time.

Kids are naturally curious and able to think logically and sensibly if given the proper stimulus. They are far more open minded than most adults.

I can teach any 3rd grader how to do square roots in under 5 min - no matter how much ADHD or Asperger's or whatever ppl say they have. And I can have them on a quest seeking the mysteries of history just as easily.

They are already primed and ready to explore and discover, it's up to us to just simply sit down and care and talk to them as real full fledged human beings.

You can teach them anything but the key is to ask them questions and get them involved in the adventure of discovery, get them talking and thinking this stuff out as you guide them through the discussion.

The only reason I'm alive is because I recognize how desperately children need a voice of reason and hope in their lives. Someone who cares more about them than all this other dumb bs.

Every kid has incredible potential and hardly anyone actually recognizes the possibilities here. I do so I can't help but facilitate their intellectual development in a strong positive way.

These kids are the reason I am alive, I was close to bailing out.

a reply to: Sheye

I know all about that. My son was there, but again, treating him like a normal student did nothing. By the end of the year, he was a basket case.

Not suspending him? Wasn't helping. Keeping him with a teacher who had no idea what was going on and no patience for it? Also wasn't helping.

If the kid cannot obey, leaving him in the room is no kind of answer, not even for my son. Leaving him there left him suicidal as a kindergartner!

What these kids need cannot be provided by the general ed classroom, and it goes far beyond suspension or not, but for the time being, they cannot behave and no one else in the room can learn while the teacher tries to force them into it. Not only that, but not all of the kids we're talking about have learning disabilities, too, some come from impossibly broken homes, but teachers are not and cannot be therapists or substitute parents.

a reply to: muzzleflash

The worlds a better place with you in it. Glad you hung in there.

a reply to: ketsuko

About disobedience and why I never have that problem with any children:

Firstly I don't try to control them. That's impossible anyways and will just make me a hated tyrant.

Secondly, Freedom through Respect is the American way. It's what I was taught and that's how I teach our youngest citizens their civics.

By me respecting and appreciating their roles as future citizens I am relying on to carry on our world, I give them responsibility and entrust them with my own responsibilities to the world. This shows them that they are needed to help and gives them a sense of purpose and it's really fun actually.

All this "you're disruptive/disobedient" is mostly control freak talk. It's a bad mentality and we all hate it, not just kids. This approach is Not how you engage and teach anyone. It's a recipe for disaster.

Instead embrace their natural drive for adventure and transform that energy into something healthy and positive. There's no one that's lost, they can all be reached.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Well, you needed to talk to his teacher because she wasn't from that line of thought.

And in the experiences I had, they needed more than could be given in the hour or so you saw them in a day. They just had too much going on to be overcome in that slim margin of time.

Those kids need something other than general ed. They need special handling that goes deeper than just the education, but it's not fair to put that on a general ed teacher. It's not his/her training.

a reply to: muzzleflash

These kids are the reason I am alive, I was close to bailing out.

God works in mysterious ways ..you may well end up being the reason some of these kids don’t bail out.
I am inspired reading your posts and feel I could learn so much from watching your interaction with students. Thank you for choosing to care with all your heart.

a reply to: Sheye

When I think about those kids never being told the truth and falling into depression and hopelessness, it destroys me. I literally fear that possibility consciously. I can't bear to think it.

That's what propels my drive to reach out to anyone I think needs me.

I was having nightmares of my own kids crying, being lost without me able to help. I remember what it was like without anyone too, I never had parents I was abandoned at age 6months.

They need to know someone loves them, cares, and will help.

Punishment and retribution have no place in that. Anger, frustration, stress, etc, can never drive any decisions. Its self defeating in the end.

There is no perfect, but if you practice you can get close. Anyone can achieve that.

a reply to: ketsuko

I agree schools are way overcrowded but that's not the root of the problem, that's a symptom of it.

To address problems we must identify the root cause and address that specifically. Then the symptoms will alleviate.

The problem is our very mindsets and lack of self-awareness. We need to become conscious of the fact we got it all backwards to begin with.

We are all so vulnerable to negative energies and thought patterns that we get trapped in vicious cycles.

In this case of our childrens entire school regime collapsing under political stress, the root problem is clearly the failure of our own adult ethics and moral principalities.

We have to address the hardest issues of all, like our own selfishness or laziness. Our own failures and misery. Our attitudes towards others. What's in our hearts and minds.

Hardly anyone wants to look in the mirror and say "hey I got it wrong ok? I will learn better!". That's the last thing anyone wants to blame, but it's absolutely necessary we all spend quality time honestly appraising ourselves and seeking to actually improve.

If we all take responsibility for ourselves and decide to try harder to be good and do right by each other - this whole thing will change rapidly.

I do realize many people already live doing right by each other, but our government and corporations are attractive to psychologically damaged people driven by base desires and so is very corrupt and unintelligent. They seek personal gain at others expenses, and those are the types of sociopaths we need to be preventing from being manufactured due to our lack of caring.

I think we live in the greatest era in history, we have more opportunities than ever before, each of us has a real chance. But we got a lot of work to do to fix this train wreck we are currently witnessing.

And the number one thing we can do before we can help anyone is to fix ourselves. We need to become virtuous peoples if we ever expect to live in a great society. This is totally common sense if you think about it from the right starting point.

That's the root of our school discipline problem. We adults are the ones out of control, we teach our kids to glorify violence and shallowness. We lack self-discipline. We only care about ourselves and have very little morality or trustworthiness.

If anyone's being disobedient it is each of us disobeying our very nature, we reject the truth because it challenged our egotism.

Do not overlook this critical root of the problem because we cannot legislate it. It's not a legislative issue, this falls entirely on we the people. The state cannot get in your head and convince you to be nicer tomorrow.

But maybe I can break through simply with the power of my own ideas? Maybe you can with those around you that you want to reach? No govt can achieve that. But we might as individuals.

The solution must start within our Spirit. Laws rules or money cannot possibly solve this.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: ketsuko

Did "Kindergarten Cop" scare you?

Not at all, quite the famous quote.

"Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina."

comes to mind, but lets let the lgbtqxyzabc mob run riot with changing the rules.

A bit off topic, but I could not resist.

These are just out of the box attacks by the enemy to make the u.s. weaker in the near future and liberals fall for it hook line and sinker.

The enemy understands you cannot weaken or attack the u.s. with traditional weapons.

So they use these weird attacks like this that will damage the moral strength of the country.

If the u.s. cannot be effected by traditional weapons, what out of the box attacks can they use?
And 90% of people can't even see it

a reply to: ABNARTY

Yeah, why even make them go to school if they can't be punished for will insubordination or acting out when they should be learning. Seems like the last generation, just put the final nail in the coffin of the next generation.

originally posted by: TrustedTruth

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: ketsuko

Did "Kindergarten Cop" scare you?

Not at all, quite the famous quote.

"Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina."

comes to mind, but lets let the lgbtqxyzabc mob run riot with changing the rules.

A bit off topic, but I could not resist.

I was thinking more of this quote:
"You know, kindergarten is like the ocean. You don't want to turn your back on it"

a reply to: ketsuko

I know all about that. My son was there, but again, treating him like a normal student did nothing. By the end of the year, he was a basket case.

I understand your frustration with inclusion for all special ed students. Here in Canada inclusion was initiated so that certain students would not feel left out of the general population of students. Unfortunately these students work at different paces, with different learning disabilities and often the regular classroom doesn’t provide the proper atmosphere for them to really learn creatively. These students, because of focus issues and other issues ( not their fault ) can disrupt regular teaching for other students.

Here we have teacher assistants who work with these students and sometimes take them out of class for special teaching tasks that could be disruptive to remainder of class. Personally I think it’s important that special ed students feel they are part of the regular classroom and welcomed.. but I also think there is a time to utilize appropriate teaching methods separately.

I’m sorry your son had to go through such a horrible experience. Hopefully it is better now ( from reading posts.. he seems to be doing well ). The best of wishes to him in the future and may he always feel accepted and loved.

A lot of schools have a policy of not suspending out of school or expelling students.

The management says that if you expel a kid, you lose authority over him, and he is still influencing the kids that remain at school. Far better to have him in the building every day, where they can monitor his well-being, and focus on the kids he's influencing.

They do practice in-school suspension, which apparently can go on for weeks at a time.

Those kids will feel right at home with the wolf packs rampaging in malls and descending en masse to loot stores. Yaaay progressivism!

I agree that the schools shouldn't just be handing these kids back to the parents, but should be actively trying to improve them at the school.