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BUSINESS: America: #22; 49; 54 and Falling Fast

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posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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I have come to the conclusion, dgtempe, that as long as there are Canadians, Americans will always be #2 in the arrogance department and soficrow is but one example of Canada's superiority in this category.


[edit on 05/3/8 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I have come to the conclusion, dgtempe, that as long as there are Canadians, Americans will always be #2 in the arrogance department and soficrow is but one example of Canada superiority in this category.

[edit on 05/3/8 by GradyPhilpott]


I thought Sofi was American?
And Grady you cannot deny that our infrastructure(ours as in North America's) is decaying fast, remember the blackout? Remember all the complaints about schools not doing thier jobs? We have alot of the same problems in Canada and people seem to be ignoring the majority of them out of either laziness or convienience.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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sardion2000, I already have a few American Companies in my portfolio relating to raw materials trade with China. I have to do some more research into the proposed pipeline to Canada's west coast to serve Chinas energy needs. It may prove to be a promising investment.


Odd

posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I have come to the conclusion, dgtempe, that as long as there are Canadians, Americans will always be #2 in the arrogance department and soficrow is but one example of Canada's superiority in this category.


[edit on 05/3/8 by GradyPhilpott]



Amen to that, you'd think she'd be hard at work fixing the social injustices in her own country before she starts telling us how to run ours.

They'll grow out of it, though... it's all we can do to remember that, sometimes.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000

And Grady you cannot deny that our infrastructure(ours as in North America's) is decaying fast, remember the blackout? Remember all the complaints about schools not doing thier jobs? We have alot of the same problems in Canada and people seem to be ignoring the majority of them out of either laziness or convienience.


I denied nothing. There are plenty of rubrics in which America lags behind others. That has always been the case, still people continue to risk death or serious injury for a chance at what America has to offer.

When it comes to America, somewhat like the Marine Corps that maintains its elite status with lower budgets and second-hand and second-rate matériel, America is greater than the sum of its parts.

[edit on 05/3/8 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:11 PM
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Disturbed Deliverer - Even 4 years ago, the USA was still a world leader in science and higher education. Gone now. Reputation destroyed.


We still are. The top universities in the world don't just stop being so because we have conservative in the white house, even though you'd like to think so.

Our education standards have been going up increasingly throughout the 90's, as well as now. Education spending has gone up over 50% in the last 4 years.


I could go through the laundry list a paragraph each but it would take a while. Healthcare, law enforcement, infrastructure construction, assorted failing socialized insurance programs- we've got more bureaucracy and waste and failed programs than we know what to do with.


It's very true, but it's hardly limited to America as this topic tries to make it out to be. These are problems plaguing the entire Western world.


there are whole sections of states that look like they were pulled out of poor mexican villages...


They probably are poor mexican villages. Believe it or not, a lot of the problems in this country are caused by the mass immigration we see. We have illegals who don't pay in, but take plenty out.

I'm not preaching against immigrants, or even illegals. But the paper statistics for a country aren't anything. People have to look at the situation in Europe compared to America. We more poor immigrants flowing into this country than anyone else, and that's bound to have an impact when you're taking a look at test scores.


There are many problems with America. Crime has made many of our major cities barely habitable.


The only kind of crime more common in America is gun violence. Crime is just as high, if not higher in European countries like the UK. Also, crime has been going way down over the years. It's nowhere near the problem it once was.

It seems all the liberal minded people, and Soficrow people can do on here is stretch rather small problems into huge ones. If you listen to her, we can expect to be hit by multiple epidemics very shortly in which America is going to crumble, and it somehow always becomes Bush, and corporate America's fault.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
Many Americans think the USA is still #1 in the world for everything that counts. Other Americans express their deep concerns about the state of the nation - only to be told their views are "anti-American." A recent article originally published in the Austin Chronicle reveals the USA's world ratings in everything from health care to science and business. Many Americans will find the truth, and the numbers, shocking.


 



www.citypages.com

No concept lies more firmly embedded in our national character than the notion that the USA is "No. 1," "the greatest." Our broadcast media are, in essence, continuous advertisements for the brand name "America Is No. 1." Any office seeker saying otherwise would be committing political suicide. In fact, anyone saying otherwise will be labeled "un-American." ...Well...this is the country you really live in:

* The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.
* "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country?
* "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.
* Twelve million American families - more than 10 percent of all U.S. households - "continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004).
* The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).
* Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

............

The Rebuttal:

The "American Empire" isn't going away anytime soon, We are the most powerful nation in the world, No one can even compete on our level.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



The facts are astounding. For example, "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European."

More intriguing, "Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt." That debt currently stands at $7.7 trillion dollars, and is increasing by $2.2 billion dollars per day.

As the writers point out, it would be suicide for any politician to admit the truth: We're broke, in debt and losing the race for progress and prosperity. Life in America is often uncivilized. In many critical categories, our standard of living is barely on par with South Africa and Mexico.

But the #1 spin keeps us buying, spending and silent.

Ignorance is bliss.




Credit and Thanks to Kosmo: Is America #1?



Related News Links:
www.ssdan.net
www.brillig.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Is America in decline??
USA vs. the World
POLITICS: The Shrinking US Dollar
OP/ED: Bushkrieg: Shock and Awe in America

[edit on 8-3-2005 by soficrow]


am i the only one that checks multiple sources?

www.forbes.com... sStart=1&resultsHowMany=25&resultsSortProperties=%2Bnumberfield1%2C%2Bstringfield2&resultsSortCategoryName=rank&passKeyword=&category1=category&catego ry2=category&fromColumnClick=true

the above link is 2004 rankings of top companies world wide


www.mandthelp.com...

the above link isnt quite as good as forbes but you get the idea

specials.ft.com...

the above link is a little older back in 2002 but you should be seeing a trend by now

and i could probably keep going if i had the energy, this is as bad as telling someone to search the forum about a questions thats been answered a thousand times

oh one more just for fun.

www.fortune.com...

the above link is just most admired, this is NOT a good sources



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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But if those parts that are lagging behind get too behind it could cause problems. All I see are idiotic politicians on the Left and Right sticking thier fingers in thier ears and humming loudly while they line thier pockets and thier buddies pockets in the Private sector.

I do agree America is greater then the sum of its parts...for now but that could change in a hurry. History is repleat with Superpowers who grew complacent and fell due to that. Having lived north of the boarder nearly all my life, I do not want to see the fragmentation of North America happen(nor do I want to see a single superstate either) because I love my home but I get so frustrated when some people either ignore the basic problems of society out of Ignorance or Choose to ignore them.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Is it just me, or is the book The European Dream the source for the vast majority of those listed statistics?


Originally posted by soficrow
We have problems. Big problems. And we don't have a hope of fixing them if we can't even admit they exist.


True. The U.S. has big problems -- and so does every other country on the planet. I want the U.S. to overcome these problems and be successful. Then again, I want all the world's countries to overcome their problems and be successful.

I don't care how the U.S. ranks in comparison with other countries. Liberty, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness is not a contest. And I want every country on Earth to one day provide all three to their citizens.

As an American, I say that as long as the Union of 50 States is strong, secure, and free, then I will only worry about making my country a better place to live, and not worry about the statistics. And I applaud other countries for their success, not loathe it because we're not "#1" in some category anymore...



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Grady, Odd and all who want to assassinate my character by questioning
my birthright, the law is clear:

I was born in the USA, and I AM American.

Lest ye forget, I have modified my first title as a reminder.
Check under my name, on the left.


JackJuice - can you fix your link please? It extends the margins too far
to the right. Thanks.


For those who find the stats questionable or confusing, they come from
demographic studies done for politicians and business. These are the kinds
of facts that go into actuarial studies, determine investment priorities, and
which are used to create, attack and defend public policy.


Some might find this book helpful or interesting. Titled "America By The
Numbers: A Field Guide To The U.S. Population Social Science Data Network,"
the book helps navigate the maze of US demographic data.

Here's a a bit from the blurb on the net:

"Is demography destiny? Corporate marketers and government agencies act
as if it is, producing mountains of statistics about Americans--most always
remarkably inaccessible and dry. Now, America by the Numbers puts the
power of demography back in the people's hands, collecting and clearly
explaining a vast amount of population data in easy-to-read, informative
tables and graphs. From the new immigration to the aging of America, this
guide reveals how the ebb and flow of population shapes every public and
private decision we make.

In an engaging and accessible form, America by the Numbers ranges
across the U.S. landscape as it offers the latest facts about racial conflict,
class division, health, schooling, family life, crime, and political participation.
The most recent in The New Press's highly successful popular guides to
politics and economics--including The Ultimate Field Guide to the U.S.
Economy and Social Stratification in the United States--America by the
Numbers is both a practical reference to U.S. population trends and a probing
examination of the roots of America's most pressing problems.


A Field Guide To The U.S. Population Social Science Data Network


Hope this helps.


.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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Sofi only people that can not stand you good research and great threads about what is eating our great nation, will always come back at you and try to discredit you.

Funny that they love America so much that they prefer to hide the facts instead of learning.

But guess what they can only try.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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soficrow, this is the kind of info that lands people behind bars
. But seriously great article
. This isn't really helping my mental stability but at least I know whats going on. Those facts about the health care are what worry me the most.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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AT the moment i am only argueing the statistic you noted of all 50 top companies except one are european.

Try some of these links

www.forbes.com...
look at the graph

same one as before
link

if the link breaks because it is too big just find where the break is and copy and paste it into your browser without the space.

My Point is that your source is completley wrong on this fact and a couple others, i havent checked all of the claims but some of them are completley baseless and flat out wrong. See my post in the thread that started this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
you can find it at the bottom of the page.

Edit (Bandit): Long url edited

[edit on 9-3-2005 by TheBandit795]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:04 PM
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Odd

posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:06 PM
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If you are an American expatriate, you gave up your "birthright" when you crossed the border.

If not, I apologize for my prior statement, in which I inferred that you were a native Canadian.

And either way, the fact remains that there is, in fact, a logical basis for my dissent with your perception of the situation (and, surely, the same is true for many of my Red State comrades-in-arms). I do not believe as I do out of blind nationalism, but rather as the result of prolonged and careful assessment of America's role in the world's political clime and the implications of such in my own life.

You and I percieve America differently due to our vastly differing lives; to be honest, I doubt either of us knows the whole truth. There is no way to express the 'quality' of an entire nation with objective mathematics, and that is that... saying otherwise is just bad science.

Despite the fact that America may not have the highest gross domestic product (never mind, apparently, our advantage in per capita analyses), and despite the fact that America might pursue a more aggressive foriegn policy than you might like, the fact remains that America is by no means reaching the end of its days. It may seem that way now, if one subscribes to the appropriate theories, but based on historical precedent I believe with stern confidence that our nation will persist well into the coming times.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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JackJuice - You need to check the definitions - or else you're comparing apples
and oranges. ...Ie., the Global Finance study likely used several parameters
to define "best company" - Forbes for example looks only at the bottom line.

Also, some companies you assume are American may not be; some companies
may be out of the running because they're privately held - or public.
...Depends on the particulars of the statements.




Originally posted by Odd

If you are an American expatriate, you gave up your "birthright" when you
crossed the border.





I am not an expatriate. I have not given up my birthright. FYI - Half my family
is American, the other half Canadian. I grew up literally on the border.
...The closest crossing closed at 10:00 pm - so we had to jump the border if
we missed curfew. Did it all the time. ...Better times, another world. It would
never happen now.






If not, I apologize for my prior statement, in which I inferred that you were a
native Canadian.





Apology accepted.






You and I percieve America differently due to our vastly differing lives; to be
honest, I doubt either of us knows the whole truth. There is no way to
express the 'quality' of an entire nation with objective mathematics, and that
is that... saying otherwise is just bad science.







Absolutely true. My point with the demographics is that this is the info
that's used in business planning - to re-write insurance policies, decide where
to build manufacturing plants (or not), and so on.

The moneymen use this information to make money - it is their guide to profit.
...I choose to look at it for other purposes.






based on historical precedent I believe with stern confidence that our nation
will persist well into the coming times.



So do I.

....I just want to see it flourish for the greatest good, and not at the expense
of the vulnerable and already over-burdened.



.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by soficrow]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Odd
You and I percieve America differently due to our vastly differing lives; to be honest, I doubt either of us knows the whole truth. There is no way to express the 'quality' of an entire nation with objective mathematics, and that is that... saying otherwise is just bad science.


That was one of the most sensible things I've ever read on ATS. It was certainly the most sensible thing I've ever read coming from you.


I gave you a way above for that little tidbit. I ask only one thing in return...

Ackowledge the fact that your idealogical enemies are not enemies of America. We want America to be strong, healthy, and long lived, just like you. I personally don't think 'the red state comrades-in-arms' have any clue how to run a country. The blue-state-dirty-hippies or whatever you want to call them, similarly have no clue what to do besides bitch and moan. The problem is extremists on both sides, crushing the already-slim middle. People think they have to join one side or another! That's ludicrous, we need original thought right now.

We need to fix our problems. We need each other to do it. Divisive politics and rhetoric from both sides has not helped, it has only exacerbated the problem. If America is to ever live up to its creed, we have to make an honest analysis of the problems, come up with a plan resonably representative of the wishes of the average American, and institute that plan without bias or corporate favoritism.

I have no illusions about politicians. I've never met one I liked, and I come from a long line of politicians, so I've met plenty. For the most part, they're criminals who couldn't find honest work and were too rich to go to prison. The small minority are well intentioned people who want to give back to the community (those ones are corrupted in short order and transmuted into the first variety). The problem is the politicians are not working for us. It's time we work for ourselves.

It amazes me how a country as rich as America can have such a terrible literacy rate. It absolutely cannot be unintentional. There is no way. It's a calculated decision, akin to marketplace eugenics, and it has to be stopped. The people need to be educated, the corporate goons need to be stripped of their money and prestige, and the America I held dear to my heart as a child must be reborn.

Back to politics for a sec... I tend to like democratic constituents more than republican ones, and here's why. Democrats would never elect men like: David Duke. Strom Thurmond. Jesse Helms. Rick Santorum. These men are unfit to clean litter from the streets. They should have been neutered before they had a chance to impregnate the help. They are representative of all that is wrong with Republican politics. How can you ever have any respect from your opponents, as long as you choose to protect and employ such pathetic, racist, mouth-breathing parasites?

Now that I got that off my chest, let's talk about Democrats. They are idealists and hypocrites mostly. They take money from the same corporations, and pretend to represent the people. They are liars, and anybody who takes them at face value should have their sanity questioned. The saying goes something like this "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, and if you're still a liberal at forty you have no brain." I'd like to add another line, which is "if you're still partisan at 50 you should be exiled and beaten with pointy sticks."

The answer to our problems isn't necessarily legislation, or litigation, or impeachment. It's education, pure and simple. If critical thinking was taught in middle school we wouldn't have half the problems we have today. Americans decided a long time ago they wanted a hands off system of politics. I think it's high time we reevaluate that decision because it's hurting us.

Here's the painful truth: Most people aren't qualified to govern their own actions, nevermind the actions of their fellow men. The only kinds of people fit for governance (myself for example
) wouldn't touch poltics with a ten foot pole. That is a fundamental problem with the system we have. The people with power don't deserve it, can't use it for anyone's benefit but their own, and the people who do care about the fate of the country entire are usually bums, artists, and writers (not high society at all and certainly not representative of the society as a whole).

Hollywood can't deliver. The political dynasties can't deliver. We need a new system. What that system might be, I haven't the faintest clue. So let's figure it out already! We've had several hundred years to improve, but it seems we've done just the opposite...

Of course when you consider the roots of America, it's no surprise we're lying, cheating, and murdering. The whole country was founded on saying one thing and doing another. If we're ever going to cure the disease, we have to assess the reason for its existence. Hypocrisy runs as thick in American veins as Patriotism, it's part and parcel to the American way of life. Every SUV with a "no blood for oil" sticker is testament to that fact.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
At the end of 2003 there were about 2.1 million people in prison in America. That number increases by about 4% annually, according to the innapopriately named Department of Justice.

Yep, thats right. We're number 1! Yay America!

We surpassed Russia not too long ago, and now we're number 1! Anyone who says America isn't number one need only look at recent prison statistics. America incarcerates more people on a daily basis than any reasonable person could think possible. Not only that, we incarcerate them for offenses ranging from herb use to story writing.


Oh hey don't worry about it, soon enough with the help of the left, China will be the new superpower, then there won't be that many people in jail...they will be "executed" right after they are found guilty in court, they will be taken to the next room and shot in the head, hey then they'll send the bill with the cost of the bullet to the family....isn't that great?....
Oh and the reasons for execution of citizens are among others, for growing pot, or any other illegal substance, selling pot or any other drug, for evasion of taxes, if the government of China needs to sell your organs to someone rich anywhere on the planet, and even for believing in democracy. I am looking up for China to be the new superpower, we will get rid of all crime.....or will we?......


Oh and don't forget....our numbers of people in jail will be one of the lowest. The world will see the truth....we don't have that many people in jail...we just execute them....




[edit on 8-3-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Wonderfull strawman Muaddib I salute you



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Hey...even living in Cuba is better than living in the US...that article which soficrow gave must be true...we all know how good people in Cuba live...


The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).


Excerpted from.
www.citypages.com...

Hey, perhaps we should all be moving to Cuba......


Anyone in here want to trade places with my family members over there? I am sure they'll accept the switch?.... Any takers?...

[edit on 8-3-2005 by Muaddib]



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