BUSINESS: America: #22; 49; 54 and Falling Fast

Yo are right subz there are many people around the world upset that bush won, terrorists, the french, etc.

However what you fail to realise is that Bush won, More people voted for him than voted for kerry.
As for protests in the streets, well where are they?
Its been what 3 months now since the election where are the masses of angry citizens with pitchforks and torches?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Yo are right subz there are many people around the world upset that bush won, terrorists, the french, etc.

Correct as well as the British, Australians, New Zelanders, Russians, Chinese, Indians, Germans, Italians (how many have you's shot lately?), Greeks...

Originally posted by mwm1331
However what you fail to realise is that Bush won, More people voted for him than voted for kerry.

That little fact didnt stop Bush stealing the election from Gore in 2000. The Supreme Court awarded Bush the election even though he had far less votes than Gore.

Originally posted by mwm1331
As for protests in the streets, well where are they?
Its been what 3 months now since the election where are the masses of angry citizens with pitchforks and torches?

"Sooner rather than later" doesnt mean right now, it means in the near future. How many people protested in Washington that were against the invasion of Iraq? You need a tangible cause to rally around, as soon as some of Bush's new legislative clangers become public and understood you'll see these mass protests once more.


[edit on 10/3/05 by subz]

America is slipping in some "quality of life" categories. I agree.
We are allowing it to happen.

Exporting Jobs, importing illegals.
I have a feeling, that if one were to take these two things into consideration,
our "Slippage" could be explained to some degree.

We may not supply health care to all of our citizens, but we certainly supply it to
thousands, if not millions of non-citizens.

Subz, the supreme courrt ddn't appoint Bush in 2000 the only thing they ruled on was whether there was justifcaton for a third recount. I suppose you would have been happy to just keep recounting the ballots untill Gore had won right? Hell if they hadnt stopped t Gore wold stll be trying to recont the ballots today.
BTW every single one of those recounts Increased Bush margin.
Again you mention the germans italians etc. So what? Last tme I checked the germans italians, britsh etc aren't US citizens
But I suppose you would be happy to allow freigners to choose our president for us right?
I mean after all the wll of the austaralians is much more important is choosing the US presdent than what Americans want right?

I was merely expanding on your list of countries that were displeased with Bush's continuation of the White House occupation.

Those countries have about as much say in who runs America as America has in saying who runs: Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, China, North Korea and Cuba.

Ive seen the warnings under your profile so I'll stop with this post and not enrage you any further with logic.

Logic doesn't enrage me subz, even if it did you wouldn't.
Ether way my point stands, there have been no mass protests and even extreme liberals have begun to grudgingly admit that Bush's foreign policy may have actually made sense.
Of course those are the few extreme lberals who have the abillity to think rationally.
A group your comments about Bush beng "appointed" would seem to keep you out of.
But hey if it makes you feel better keep thinking the elections were rigged.
fteral its not like liberals and reality often meet anyway.

Originally posted by Majic

And lest anyone get the wrong idea, I really am honestly curious as to what motivated soficrow to present this information and start this thread, and what the agenda is.

First - I thought the information was very interesting - and it blew apart some of my own misconceptions.

Second - knowing most of the demographics came from international business triggered that light bulb eureka thing. Like, ahhh. Now I get it (re: new bankrutpcy law especially)

Third - I am just a sucker for information - finding puzzle pieces, looking for patterns, identifying the global picture.

Fourth - identifying the problems accurately and clearly in order to identify legitimate workable solutions.


My agenda? Seeking truth, from every angle and perspective. Exposing bs. Also, See above. ...Despite the frequent accusations, I don't belong to any political party - if anything, I'm an idealistic anarchist. But really I don't fit anywhere - I'm still in process, under construction. And probably will be until I die.

Finally, I also agree that soficrow has handled the thread exceptionally well, which comes as no surprise to me whatsoever.

Thanks.

P.S. As far as I'm concerned, the proper place for humor and levity is anywhere.

Agreed.

More jokes please.

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Whilst I am going to leave all this to you Americans to argue about forever and a day, I felt the need to comment on some "facts" puked up by Disturbed Believer (you certainly fit your name there chap):

You know why you wait? There are people with far more serious injuries. You are always guarenteed to see a doctor, though. You are not guarenteed that same right in a free medical program, like the UK's.

Er....yes you are. No argument, everyone has the RIGHT to see a doctor. Don't know where you got this garbage from. And it's not free anyway. We pay National Insurance, and pay a prescription fee when getting our drugs (although it is only £6.50). Only free if you are wrinkly, too young (U18), in full time education, or claim asylum.......

Where are the abandoning our nation to go to? (in respect of University Students)

Cambridge and Oxford (and the other top UK Uni's), who have recently upped the amount of foreign students they are accepting, due to an increase of demand

GDP Per Capita
Germany: $27,600
France: $27,600
UK: $27,700
USA: $37,800

Thats wrong for starters. By this logic, the average UK'er earns about £15k. That might be true if you average UK citizen is 16 and has just got a job answering phones for their bank..check out this more up to date info:

Uk average earnings report

From this report, average earnings are £25,170/annum, which at todays prices is $45,306/annum in your monopoly money, far in excess of what you are reporting.

GDP Growth
Germany: -.1%
France: .5%
UK: 2.2%
USA: 3.1% (based on 2003, this year we're back up to almost 4%)

Thats also wrong! GDP Growth for the UK is 3.1%

BBC source for GDP growth in the UK, 2004

Unemployment
Germany: 10.5%
France: 9.7%
UK: 5%
USA: 6% (this figure is more like 5.5%, and the German and French figures have grown recently)

More like 4.5%.

BBC-Unemployment

Please, feel free to argue amongst yourselves about the state of the US, but do not start flinging insults, false facts and slander against my own country that have no basis in truth.

There are more comments on here that I really should redress about my country, which is shameful as we are the US's best friend (apparently), but I do not have the inclination due to a bout of an unknown disease going round my office.

So I am now going to book an appointment for my doctor, and get some cheap as you like medicines to make me feel better....

"The highest patriotism is not a blind acceptance of official policy, but a love of one's country deep enough to call her to a higher plain"

-- George McGovern

"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."

-- Malcolm X

"The time is fast approaching when to call a man a patriot will be the deepest insult you can offer him. Patriotism now means advocating plunder in the interest of the privileged classes of the particular State system into which we have happened to be born."

-- Leo Tolstoy



You can still be patriotic AND admit your country has serious problems that need to be fixed.


jako

Whilst I am going to leave all this to you Americans to argue about forever and a day, I felt the need to comment on some "facts" puked up by Disturbed Believer (you certainly fit your name there chap):

That's not my name. You know, I think this right here says more about the rest of your post then I'm about to...

Er....yes you are. No argument, everyone has the RIGHT to see a doctor. Don't know where you got this garbage from. And it's not free anyway. We pay National Insurance, and pay a prescription fee when getting our drugs (although it is only £6.50). Only free if you are wrinkly, too young (U18), in full time education, or claim asylum.......

Yea, you'll see one after hours of waiting in a lousy ER where there's no doctor or nurse actually present to see how urgent your problem is.

Cambridge and Oxford (and the other top UK Uni's), who have recently upped the amount of foreign students they are accepting, due to an increase of demand

I've dealth with this issue. Show me more then a small spike in a single year's data if you want to make a point.

Thats wrong for starters. By this logic, the average UK'er earns about £15k. That might be true if you average UK citizen is 16 and has just got a job answering phones for their bank..check out this more up to date info:

I find my source more credible. I highly doubt your "updated" info would account for almost a 20,000 difference. That would also give the UK the highest GDP per capita in pretty much the world, which is a lot of bull.

Here are some other sources that agree with me (or at least are closer to agreeing with me then you):

www.droitcivil.uottawa.ca...
www.econ.iastate.edu...

Thats also wrong! GDP Growth for the UK is 3.1%

You'll see my statistics were right on for the past few years in the UK. America saw nearly 4% GDP growth last year.

More like 4.5%.

Regardless of the figure, it is the one area you have us bettered in economically. Your economy is far better off then the rest of Europe's, and my information showed that as well as yours. It still is not as strong as America's by any means.

Care to throw some national debt per capita stats into the penis measuring contest DisturbedBeliever?

Also what are you basing your hospital waiting times on? Ive been to the accident and emergency center (A&E here thanks, not ER) and i've waited no more than 20 minutes and my ailment was non-life threatening.

My 4 year old cousin was admitted instantly with convulsions due to high fever last month and my cousin who was knocked down by a car today was also admitted instantly.

These are free services regardless of whether you pay your National Insurance and I'd dread to see where they would be in the USA. They'd of been asked to leave if they didnt have health insurance.

Care to throw some national debt per capita stats into the penis measuring contest DisturbedBeliever?

I've already shown debt percentage compared to GDP, and most of Europe is far ahead of us.

Also what are you basing your hospital waiting times on? Ive been to the accident and emergency center (A&E here thanks, not ER) and i've waited no more than 20 minutes and my ailment was non-life threatening.

I'm basing it off various articles.

It's funny that you mentioned someone getting knocked over by a car, because I can remember reading a CNN article detailing someone with the same exact thing happening, and he waited for hours without seeing anyone.

These are free services regardless of whether you pay your National Insurance and I'd dread to see where they would be in the USA. They'd of been asked to leave if they didnt have health insurance.

No one is turned away at American hospitals.

I love how people get so upset about FACTS, and treat them as if it's somehow propaganda or a kind of personal insult to them.

Lighten up.

Your country is not perfect, it needs a lot of fixing, and admitting it is the first tiny step in bringing about change.

Interesting stuff BUT:

This thread is about US demographics. ...Whether or not anyone likes it, the information contained here is used in various ways:

Insurance companies use the health demographics to determine cost AND coverage terms for policies;

Banks use the economic data to determine terms for credit and loan policies;

Medical device manufacturers use the data to decide what to push in the market....


As a result of these demographics and the way industry uses them, we do not always get what we want, or need.

Can anyone draw any conclusions about the whys and wherefors of the US "marketplace" - now that you have access to some of the information business decisions are based on?



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Originally posted by soficrow
Interesting stuff BUT:

This thread is about US demographics. ...Whether or not anyone likes it, the information contained here is used in various ways:

Exactly sofi demographics have been used for many years to target consumers with the right products for their needs.

Right now our population is increasingly becoming bigger, specially teens, I remember when catalogs used to be of tall slim young women as the years go by is a new wave of catalogs with Plus sizes and bigger models.

Also the models even when big are still beautiful they are giving the impression that big is fashionable and beautiful, is all marketing strategists.

Also demographics are used when it comes to salaries and job markets that’s why what you make in a job in one place is totally different in another area.

The companies used the cities’ locations and cost of living to set up salaries, they take in consideration, experiences, range of education and availability and they do that using demographics,

That is why marketing and demographics are a key factor to be able to sell, target and profit from the consumer.

Can anyone draw any conclusions about the whys and wherefors of the US "marketplace" - now that you have access to some of the information business decisions are based on?

I haven't seen anything made for businesses. I really doubt corporations rely on the New York Times, a book called the European Dream, or the World Health Organization to get information on the public. I don't see how any of the information you gave would be helpful to companies looking to sell to the American public.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
No one is turned away at American hospitals.

LIAR. You are blind, and trying to share your debilitating condition with others. That's unconscionable. I myself have been turned away. I've driven friends to the ER to be turned away. I know for a fact that if you can't afford the treatment they will not treat you. If you're poor, and you happen to be in a nice neighborhood when you get sick, they'll put you in an ambulance and ship you to another hospital a hundred miles away, and then charge you nearly 10k for the ambulance ride. I've seen it happen, first hand. I've had it happen TO ME. I've heard of it happening.

So go get tossed.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer

Can anyone draw any conclusions about the whys and wherefors of the US "marketplace" - now that you have access to some of the information business decisions are based on?

I haven't seen anything made for businesses. I really doubt corporations rely on the New York Times, a book called the European Dream, or the World Health Organization to get information on the public. I don't see how any of the information you gave would be helpful to companies looking to sell to the American public.

The NYTimes and European Dream collected, accessed and published existent demographic studies - they didn't run them.

Re: the WHO - everyone goes there for certain information. The WHO collects stats from around the world - and the stats are useful, especially for trends analysis.

You seem to be fighting against the idea that businesses use demographics... But they do.

Demographics are just statistical profiles, traditionally used for marketing.

One of my teachers used to say that if a piece of information elicits an emotional response, you need to deal with the emotion before you can process the information.


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LIAR. You are blind, and trying to share your debilitating condition with others. That's unconscionable. I myself have been turned away. I've driven friends to the ER to be turned away. I know for a fact that if you can't afford the treatment they will not treat you. If you're poor, and you happen to be in a nice neighborhood when you get sick, they'll put you in an ambulance and ship you to another hospital a hundred miles away, and then charge you nearly 10k for the ambulance ride. I've seen it happen, first hand. I've had it happen TO ME. I've heard of it happening.

I'm tempted to call you a liar here, but won't. They aren't allowed to turn people away at an ER. We have huge medical bills tax payers have to pay every year for illegals and people who are just too poor.

The only way to explain the things you talked about would be you simply didn't have anything in need of urgent care.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer

They aren't allowed to turn people away at an ER. We have huge medical bills tax payers have to pay every year for illegals and people who are just too poor.

The only way to explain the things you talked about would be you simply didn't have anything in need of urgent care.

Yes. They are allowed to turn people away, and they do. With great regularity.

I know people who were sent home to have strokes and heart attacks. I know a Mexican woman who went back day after day with a sick convulsive baby - and was sent home every time. ...The baby was later diagnosed with Kawasaki disease and heart problems that resulted directly from that disease.

ALL hospitals have to do is treat life threatening situations. They do what's necessary to avoid lawsuits, and that's all.


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