This one's for the Flat Universers out there!

I guess it goes without saying, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around these Universe / Cosmology questions. Still, I have always wrestled with the "flat" universe idea more than most such concepts. I get why many astrophysicists, etc., would think its "flat" (that doesn't mean 2D, of course), but it just never seemed right to me - HOW could/would it be a flat medium??!?

This is nowhere near proof, or even a solid theory yet, but its something that points to a maybe not-flat universe. Let me just say now, I'm on board. When people in the 22nd century are making fun of us for being so dense as to believe in a flat universe, I, in my cyborg body, can claim "I never thought that was true."

They're looking toward future projects - probably not TOO far in the future, that will provide even better measurements which may help to clarify the shape of the universe. If not what it IS, perhaps at least, what it isn't (flat.)

Vice Article - ...a hidden crisis in what we know about the universe

“A closed Universe can provide a physical explanation for this effect, with the Planck cosmic microwave background spectra now preferring a positive curvature at more than the 99% confidence level,” the team said in the study.

a reply to: dogstar23

The main thing we can gain from these continual arguments/findings is that it's lines vs circles vs squares vs ovals vs rectangles vs. infinity symbols vs the metal shaped S vs triangles vs parallelagrams vs vistapushatushagrips and so on.

All the shapes and directions/lines are fighting each other. Which shape/direction do you choose? That's the only question that matters.

It doesn't matter to me what shape our universe is. I do prefer my pizzas kind of flat though.

I really do not care when or how our universe was formed though, but I do like to know what kind of ingredients my pizza is made of though.

a reply to: rickymouse

Its one of those things I just want to know because I can't know. I've always assumed the universe is basically a macro-cosmic version of an atom, it being part of a giant molecule, being part of some tiny component of a much larger universe, ad infinitum.

As for pizza, I'm yet to find a topping I don't like. One of the less well-known but growing in popularity around here I particularly approve of: Italian Beef & Giardiniera (on an otherwise normal, pizza sauce/mozzarella) pizza.

a reply to: dogstar23

Imagine your self as a child again and you're on your way home
from school. A few feet from the sidewalk, in a dirt field. You
see the black piece of construction paper you lost on your home
the previous day.

You slap the paper a couple times to dust it off but will never
get all the embedded dirt out. Returning home you set the paper
on the kitchen counter next to refrigerator. You didn't notice the
water on the counter and now the construction paper is wet.

Do you throw the paper away or use it for your science project
at school and try to grow some kind of life on it? you choose life.
To everyone's amazement you are successful!

Now imagine the construction paper is the universe and you
are it's Creator. The paper is supporting life that will never know
it's Creator.

And no matter what anyone thinks of this it was fun to write.

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: rickymouse

Its one of those things I just want to know because I can't know. I've always assumed the universe is basically a macro-cosmic version of an atom, it being part of a giant molecule, being part of some tiny component of a much larger universe, ad infinitum.

As for pizza, I'm yet to find a topping I don't like. One of the less well-known but growing in popularity around here I particularly approve of: Italian Beef & Giardiniera (on an otherwise normal, pizza sauce/mozzarella) pizza.

In nature there seems to be a repetition of shape, graduating to bigger and bigger things. Spirals occur her on earth in many natural shapes. The atom is like our solar system, the galaxies are like molecular combinations, the universe may be part of something bigger. But we cannot see past the boundry of our universe because it forms a barrier that reflects energy from outside of the universe. For all we know the universe we perceive could be a leaf of a plant. Or maybe it is just some liquid spilled onto the top of water, liquid that floats because it is of a different consistancy.

The number of possibilities is endless. We probably will never know for sure no matter what technology we develop. We cannot know from this place in the universe what actually created it or what it actually is nor can we know how old it is. But that does not stop people with degrees from saying they know how the universe was formed. I am not ashamed to say I do not know, I am not consumed by desire for recognition nor do I feel a need to believe something just because people with special conditioning say it is true when I know it is near impossible to actually know for sure.

It doesn't really matter anyway, if people want to believe they know about the universe's formation then let them believe it. As long as they do not try to shove their theories down my throat as being real when the fact is that we may never really know, I do not care.

Reality is formed here by consensus of the time which is based on beliefs.

a reply to: dogstar23

Everything in the universe floats to an extent.
The planets and stars are all floating roughly near the surface of a great ocean. The ocean may look like invisible space but it’s just spaced out between it’s molecules and appears transparent.
So everything is up at the top floating, including us on our planet. And around and around we slowly swirl in the giant whirlpool of life.

a reply to: dogstar23

Interestingly...a picture of an apple is flat....yet, the apple we know is really round. Which is true? The flat representation of that apple?

a reply to: rickymouse

Its true it doesn't really matter to us, at least at this point, but perhaps greater understanding of that which is beyond us will lead to greater insights of that which maybe does effect us.

What's learned thru pure research can end up being, in retrospect, just a small piece of many steps toward some groundbreaking far-future advancement. Or, become nothing at all except to satisy a curiosity.

I had an elderly Astronomy professor, who ran our local planetarium for decades - my longest-running teacher, from my first gradeschool field trip to the planetarium to the 3rd astronomy college course I took with him (every elective I could make fit as a business major who should have been a scientist/engineer, oh well lol.)

Anyhow, he said something that he repeated twice, with such conviction, the first day of Astronomy 101, as if it was the most important thing in the world. Most of the class retained their glazed looks, while my buddy and I sat rapt in awe at this most profound truth: "Everything in the universe rotates and revolves."

That means everything from sub-sub-atomic 'particles' to moons, planets, stars, galaxies, and superclusters of galaxies. It stands to reason the universe itself probably both rotates and revolves as well. If it revolves, that means it is orbiting something else - something outside of "the universe."

Thank you all for your replies!

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: rickymouse

Its true it doesn't really matter to us, at least at this point, but perhaps greater understanding of that which is beyond us will lead to greater insights of that which maybe does effect us.

What's learned thru pure research can end up being, in retrospect, just a small piece of many steps toward some groundbreaking far-future advancement. Or, become nothing at all except to satisy a curiosity.

I had an elderly Astronomy professor, who ran our local planetarium for decades - my longest-running teacher, from my first gradeschool field trip to the planetarium to the 3rd astronomy college course I took with him (every elective I could make fit as a business major who should have been a scientist/engineer, oh well lol.)

Anyhow, he said something that he repeated twice, with such conviction, the first day of Astronomy 101, as if it was the most important thing in the world. Most of the class retained their glazed looks, while my buddy and I sat rapt in awe at this most profound truth: "Everything in the universe rotates and revolves."

That means everything from sub-sub-atomic 'particles' to moons, planets, stars, galaxies, and superclusters of galaxies. It stands to reason the universe itself probably both rotates and revolves as well. If it revolves, that means it is orbiting something else - something outside of "the universe."

Thank you all for your replies!

If the universe rotates like you say, how would we actually be able to verify that from this point in space. I can see that we could actually identify it expanding, but in two hundred years it would be impossible to identify what is happening. It could be flexing, or vibrating, and in that two hundred years we have actually had good enough equipment to monitor it, we probably would only be in one single vibration half pathway.

It is a good theory, but it would take many thousands of years to actually be able to verify if that was in fact true.

It does not stop people from saying they know what is true and groups adopting the same beliefs so others cannot challenge their beliefs. Like an army of scientists protecting their beliefs from being challenged. Scientists are not usually any different than regular people, they see what they think they know. In actuality quantum physics seems more appealing to me because it opens up many possibilities that regular physics ignores. I am confident lots of what Physics has adopted is real, but often it may not be relevant to what some are applying it to. Now, I do not think we need to colonize mars or the moon, that is just bragging rights for some highly educated people, it pays their paycheck.

I do not think money on satelites used to understand orbits and our sun are a waste, and a few missions to Mars to learn the basics of the planet is not a problem. But now they are just spending expensive toys there and the pictures they are acquiring I believe are not always from Mars, I think they are making some things up to stir interest to guarantee funding of their projects.

I've heard this before, that the universe is like a rectangular prism. A ridiculously large rectangle and everything known is inside of it. So in a sense it's "flat". Interesting theory.